Ultimate Doberman?

Nothing is 100% ever, but as you yourself said, even littermates can be vastly different. A good breeder is there watching, taking notes


Dogs learn and know 'family' stuff. Especially Dobermans... They can be vastly different but also be a part of the same family. If they grow up together especially -

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Not suggesting you go down that road if you are not wanting to go down that road but...

You could pull it off. I have less than zero doubts in my mind that with your training ability that sort of stuff would not cause you any grief or very much extra work at all. :)
 
You could pull it off. I have less than zero doubts in my mind that with your training ability that sort of stuff would not cause you any grief or very much extra work at all.
I appreciate your input and compliments on training, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm referring to regarding puppies cut out for a certain lifestyle.

I have 3 siblings and we were all raised under the same roof with devoted parents. The four of us are extremely different with different natural talents. From the time I can remember I was only interested in animals, nature, being outside and was never a social butterfly. I wanted a horse from the time I could talk. Nobody in our family had a horse, I had no friends with horses, we lived on a university campus as my father was a professor but I knew I had to have a horse. We had a cat, but no dogs. I was driven in my mind to be with critters rather than humans. I brought in turtles and lizards, caught frogs and toads, I captured dragonflies and fireflies and released them in my bedroom. I saved my allowance and bought 2 hamsters and the cages and food, because that was the only way I was allowed to have them. One of my sisters liked animals like I did, but her world did not revolve around them. My brother was similar in that way. My other sister didn't care for them, didn't want the cat on her stuff, was afraid of dogs and over all very awkward around animals in general. She was the best of us in school, excelled in math and was a talented musician.

Where I'm going with this is what I'm trying to say about a litter of puppies. Even under the same circumstances we were different from the time we were born, and we had vastly different interests. My parents were both musicians and encouraged us all to be involved in music. I love music, but I have no natural talents in it, I can only sing out of key. My siblings can sing well, none are professionals, but one can sing harmony perfectly with any song on the radio and with no effort. If I had been forced to take up a career in singing I would have struggled for years and been miserable trying to do something my whole life that did not come naturally to me. Same if my sister who is a tax accountant with a brilliant mind, what if she'd been forced to work with animals or camp in the wilderness? She is so out of place and uncomfortable around them it makes me squirm.

I'm not a breeder and don't plan to be, but I understand clearly that not every dog can be good at any one thing. These drives ARE seen at very early ages! Yes, every dog can become a good companion with proper training applied to a dog that is too shy or too aggressive, and every dog can learn basic obedience and manners. But not every Doberman can be a good working dog, which is what this thread is about. Not all Dobermans are brave enough to go forward under intense pressure and if they don't have that naturally, it's a lose/lose to try to train one to do so.
 
An additional thought regarding very high drive dogs of any breed. A handful of people want working protection Dobermans, and I'm hoping that unicorn never becomes extinct. I'm pretty glad that there are distinct differences bred by breeders who go the extra mile to find the right owners and I will continue to advise against working line breeds for pet owners who do not have the time or wherewithal to give these dogs what they need. As so many have found out the hard way, even "pet quality" Dobermans can be a handful as puppies and impossible nightmares if not trained. This statement popped up on my scrolling this morning and thought I'd set it here as a reminder:

Some dogs aren’t broken. They’re just waiting for the right person to unlock who they were meant to be.
X was surrendered to a shelter after destroying everything he could get his teeth on—drywall, doors, insulation. He scaled fences, busted crates, and was running out of chances.
But he wasn’t a “bad” dog. He was a brilliant, bored, athletic, frustrated working dog - trapped in the wrong life.
Today, X thrives. He trains daily. He has jobs, structure, purpose. He’s not just a pet. He’s a partner. And it shows.
Malinois and Dutch Shepherds aren’t for the average home. They’re for the rare few who live the lifestyle.
When the right dog meets the right human, everything changes.
 
Really appreciate that last part you posted...I hear of SO many people who get working breeds, and keep them crated because they can't handle them :(. I heard a lady telling someone about her husky that eats everything, and runs away constantly, so they just keep him crated.....I had to butt in and give her my opinion about "How about taking him for a walk daily?' How about interacting with him? I 'gently' told her he is a working breed, that needs alot of exercise and interaction....she said they got him "for the kids" when he was a puppy. 😪. It's just too common...I wish you had to have a license, or take a test to get a dog!
 
An additional thought regarding very high drive dogs of any breed. A handful of people want working protection Dobermans, and I'm hoping that unicorn never becomes extinct. I'm pretty glad that there are distinct differences bred by breeders who go the extra mile to find the right owners and I will continue to advise against working line breeds for pet owners who do not have the time or wherewithal to give these dogs what they need. As so many have found out the hard way, even "pet quality" Dobermans can be a handful as puppies and impossible nightmares if not trained. This statement popped up on my scrolling this morning and thought I'd set it here as a reminder:

Some dogs aren’t broken. They’re just waiting for the right person to unlock who they were meant to be.
X was surrendered to a shelter after destroying everything he could get his teeth on—drywall, doors, insulation. He scaled fences, busted crates, and was running out of chances.
But he wasn’t a “bad” dog. He was a brilliant, bored, athletic, frustrated working dog - trapped in the wrong life.
Today, X thrives. He trains daily. He has jobs, structure, purpose. He’s not just a pet. He’s a partner. And it shows.
Malinois and Dutch Shepherds aren’t for the average home. They’re for the rare few who live the lifestyle.
When the right dog meets the right human, everything changes.

Wow.
 
Not all Dobermans are brave enough to go forward under intense pressure and if they don't have that naturally, it's a lose/lose to try to train one to do so.

If I can train my Dobermans (all of them over the last 20+ years or so) to come running and line up for a 120psi air cleaning every day (sometimes multiple times a day) - You can too! :)

They are not always 'born with it' but they can be taught to 'deal with it' just fine.

Dobermans excel at being able to be desensitized to stuff that a lot of other breeds would run like hell to get away from. (They also excel at being able to differentiate particular sounds through noise)

Some stuff about history and the guy being a tax collector and how HE used them - then some stuff about how they were used in WW2...

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The constant training you do with your dogs makes them stronger every single day and builds their confidence. The sky is the limit as for how far you wish to train there - Not so much the particular Doberman.

What that Doberman puppy is acting like at 10 weeks of age should never, ever be used as any sort of indication for where they 'could' end up in the future.

That training work that you put in trumps anything and everything that was going on back when they were 10 weeks old.
 
she said they got him "for the kids" when he was a puppy. 😪. It's just too common...I wish you had to have a license, or take a test to get a dog!

I freakin hated dogs after a bad experience when young. I was NOT gay but did have cats instead for a while until that day the wife said 'I want to get a dog for the boys'.

Me being smart like I is - KNEW that If I 'compromised' with her on the dog thing I could get her to change her mind. :)

First thing out of my mouth was a VERY excited 'Doberman!' (knowing that was not what she was wanting and that she would drop it right away)

Wife jumped on that 'compromise' and ran with it. Was not in the least bit worried about it eating our kids or destroying our home... :(

I was not keen on any of that crap one single bit but got tricked into it cause I is so smart... :(



Good grief that dog was awesome... The way the wife worked with that girl and trained her and the results she got in the end blew my freakin mind.

That dog listened way better than the kids did and was NOT destructive at all. Super clean inside the home, super easy to care for... By the time that dog was 1 yr old she had it trained like a remote control dog. By 2 yrs is was ridiculous how many commands from her it would follow instantly...


She picked that dog and did the bonding thing with it. They definitely 'bonded' and it happened fast. (she was the one pretty much providing all of the doggie care and handling all of the doggie stuff)

That dog was very protective of her because of that bonding they did...

:)

That wife showed me first hand just how smart these dogs are and how far you can go if you put in the work.

:)
 
I appreciate your input and compliments on training, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm referring to regarding puppies cut out for a certain lifestyle.

I have 3 siblings and we were all raised under the same roof with devoted parents. The four of us are extremely different with different natural talents. From the time I can remember I was only interested in animals, nature, being outside and was never a social butterfly. I wanted a horse from the time I could talk. Nobody in our family had a horse, I had no friends with horses, we lived on a university campus as my father was a professor but I knew I had to have a horse. We had a cat, but no dogs. I was driven in my mind to be with critters rather than humans. I brought in turtles and lizards, caught frogs and toads, I captured dragonflies and fireflies and released them in my bedroom. I saved my allowance and bought 2 hamsters and the cages and food, because that was the only way I was allowed to have them. One of my sisters liked animals like I did, but her world did not revolve around them. My brother was similar in that way. My other sister didn't care for them, didn't want the cat on her stuff, was afraid of dogs and over all very awkward around animals in general. She was the best of us in school, excelled in math and was a talented musician.

Where I'm going with this is what I'm trying to say about a litter of puppies. Even under the same circumstances we were different from the time we were born, and we had vastly different interests. My parents were both musicians and encouraged us all to be involved in music. I love music, but I have no natural talents in it, I can only sing out of key. My siblings can sing well, none are professionals, but one can sing harmony perfectly with any song on the radio and with no effort. If I had been forced to take up a career in singing I would have struggled for years and been miserable trying to do something my whole life that did not come naturally to me. Same if my sister who is a tax accountant with a brilliant mind, what if she'd been forced to work with animals or camp in the wilderness? She is so out of place and uncomfortable around them it makes me squirm.

I'm not a breeder and don't plan to be, but I understand clearly that not every dog can be good at any one thing. These drives ARE seen at very early ages! Yes, every dog can become a good companion with proper training applied to a dog that is too shy or too aggressive, and every dog can learn basic obedience and manners. But not every Doberman can be a good working dog, which is what this thread is about. Not all Dobermans are brave enough to go forward under intense pressure and if they don't have that naturally, it's a lose/lose to try to train one to do so.
Wow. Reading that was like reading about myself and my siblings! 🤣 While my sister always loved cats and dogs she was never into all animals as I was. I think I had every critter a child could have when I was young. Fish, hamsters, mice, parakeet, chameleons, turtles, you name it!

And my brother never had a pet of his own! :facepalm: I never could understand that. All his life and he's never had anything. What's wrong with that guy?? 😆

So yes, I think most breeders can tell the difference in the personalities of their puppies. Yes, a lot of them can be trained and turn out a little differently than what the breeder may have thought. But I still think that each dog has a personality that leans a certain way and that doesn't change completely. Just like people. Like @Ravenbird I've wanted a horse since I was about 5 years old. I wanted to live out in the country like in Forever. Took me a while to get here because life gets in the way. 😉 But nobody can train me to be in a little apartment in the city. And be happy.

And actually, those of you who knew Buddy knew him to be a somewhat soft, gentle Doberman. Perfect for me! And my family and extended family. But he came to me quite shy and timid. Did I work some of that out of him? Of course I did. But would he ever be a fierce contender? I don't think so. And maybe that's because I wasn't interested in turning him into that. Maybe with some training he would be. I don't know. I think it would really take some work that I wasn't interested in doing because I loved that he was a gentle soul. 🥰

And I did pick Annie. And not from anything more than a picture! And believe what you want, but I always said her eyes were calling my name.💓 I felt that I saw a lot in those eyes! She was the one! She was not being held for a show home and I am certainly not a show home. A pet is all I wanted and my pick turned out to be perfect! 🥰
 
But would he ever be a fierce contender? I don't think so. And maybe that's because I wasn't interested in turning him into that. Maybe with some training he would be. I don't know. I think it would really take some work that I wasn't interested in doing because I loved that he was a gentle soul.


There was a few times I pissed the Doberman wife off where she felt the need to yell / scream and otherwise get angry towards me. 'Some' was because that woman was crazy but there was a good bit of ass chewing that I EARNED and fully deserved! :)

When she got really wound up and exploded on me that damn dog of hers would be by her side instantly and be backing her up every step of the way... :)

I thank god that woman never put her damn dog on me for pissing her off!

I have less than zero doubt that she could have pointed a finger and given just a slight bit of encouragement to her dog and my ass would have been chomped on... :)


We did an experiment one time back when we had that dog where the wife commanded a hard 'sit' and 'stay' and then right after I tried to get her to come to me. Dog glanced over at wife after hearing my 'commands' and then rightfully ignored the stuff I was asking her to do.

:)
 
An additional thought regarding very high drive dogs of any breed. A handful of people want working protection Dobermans, and I'm hoping that unicorn never becomes extinct. I'm pretty glad that there are distinct differences bred by breeders who go the extra mile to find the right owners and I will continue to advise against working line breeds for pet owners who do not have the time or wherewithal to give these dogs what they need. As so many have found out the hard way, even "pet quality" Dobermans can be a handful as puppies and impossible nightmares if not trained. This statement popped up on my scrolling this morning and thought I'd set it here as a reminder:

Some dogs aren’t broken. They’re just waiting for the right person to unlock who they were meant to be.
X was surrendered to a shelter after destroying everything he could get his teeth on—drywall, doors, insulation. He scaled fences, busted crates, and was running out of chances.
But he wasn’t a “bad” dog. He was a brilliant, bored, athletic, frustrated working dog - trapped in the wrong life.
Today, X thrives. He trains daily. He has jobs, structure, purpose. He’s not just a pet. He’s a partner. And it shows.
Malinois and Dutch Shepherds aren’t for the average home. They’re for the rare few who live the lifestyle.
When the right dog meets the right human, everything changes.
Such a good thread I am bumping for reminder.
I read a lot including the other doberman webforum, reddit, some fakebook and now searching workingdog...
I think to get into the minds of the people developing/maintaining the working dobe you need to find a club, thats accepting of dobes, and understand that the competition is slanted towards the GSDs/Mals that SCH/IGP came from...and from that get to know the breeders/trainers who persist in breeding/training of those unicorn dobes- "total doberman". Good looking enough, Highly Intelligent, multi-talented, fierce guardians, safe with kids AND long lived and healthy.
Will people pay for that?
I dont know...seems like an upswing in interest, via social media influencers...but what I see online on the show side is a very gray haired cohort...a few new breeders in training...but enough critical mass going forward?

What seems to be more common in pet buyers is designer breeds-doodle this that and the other thing...just musing here, over my coffee.
Hmmm...
 
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Who actually reports how long their dog lived to anyone?
Supposedly at DPCA Longevity Project...the LC in DobeQuest is the proof...but yes to your point, its not completely accurate as its volunteered information

So I think what happens is you have to go to competitions in person, and talk with people. Or have the big bucks to hire someone to find and train an executive protection dog. Those are not advertising on FB or posting in forums.
 
If I can train my Dobermans (all of them over the last 20+ years or so) to come running and line up for a 120psi air cleaning every day (sometimes multiple times a day) - You can too! :)

They are not always 'born with it' but they can be taught to 'deal with it' just fine.

Dobermans excel at being able to be desensitized to stuff that a lot of other breeds would run like hell to get away from. (They also excel at being able to differentiate particular sounds through noise)

Some stuff about history and the guy being a tax collector and how HE used them - then some stuff about how they were used in WW2...

ozY5BFr.jpg


The constant training you do with your dogs makes them stronger every single day and builds their confidence. The sky is the limit as for how far you wish to train there - Not so much the particular Doberman.

What that Doberman puppy is acting like at 10 weeks of age should never, ever be used as any sort of indication for where they 'could' end up in the future.

That training work that you put in trumps anything and everything that was going on back when they were 10 weeks old.
Interesting point about puppy assessment- somewhere I read about a study showing the Volhardt (sp?) assessment was not as accurate/predictive as claimed. IIRC this has ti be done at 47 days...why is that, btw.

My guess is a experienced and involved breeders daily journal on pupoy by colored collar is more accurate, but again- I tend towards the nurture side of the nature vs argument.

As long as you have sufficient drive bred in, its the human beings development, the steering wheel for the engine, that matters most. And its the quality of the training to the two legged that matters most.

But thats just me - a random opinion from some two dobe pet puppy noob nattering on teh innertubes here...

PS: in one of the 2' tall stack of dobe books I have only skimmed, or maybe in an online breed history of ww2 dogs I recall the dobermans being "given" by the Army to the Marines for kenneling and training- the dobes were considered too difficult, hard, dangerous for the Army to train so they were dumped on the Marines.

Nowadays its USAF that runs all the kennels, true? And except for random SAR, etc there are no military forces using Dobes as wardogs, amiright? A few LEOs might run a dobe in the field but less and less as it seems GSDs, Mals, are the go to with labs and field goldens or others with a good nose as bomb dogs.
 
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somewhere I read about a study showing the Volhardt (sp?) assessment was not as accurate/predictive as claimed. IIRC this has ti be done at 47 days...why is that, btw.
There will always be outliers in tests, but if done properly, the Volhard test is about as good of a prediction as you can get for inborn nerve and personality.
I tend towards the nurture side of the nature vs argument.
If you have a shy puppy, you can increase its confidence, no doubt! And for sure, if you want to teach a Golden Retriever to do IGP, an experienced trainer with a lot of patience could get that golden to go through the motions. You will never ever get a better dog at a job that is born wanting to do though. Bird dogs want to point, Border collies want to herd.

I recall the dobermans being "given" by the Army to the Marines for kenneling and training- the dobes were considered too difficult, hard, dangerous for the Army to train so they were dumped on the Marines.
And if you dig deep, they were used mostly for messenger dogs and sentry dogs. The war dog label sounds fierce, and they were trained in protection, but they were not used to attack the enemy. They stole quietly through the night taking messages to another foxhole. They didn't bark or whine either. :rofl:

there are no military forces using Dobes as wardogs, amiright? A few LEOs might run a dobe in the field but less and less as it seems GSDs, Mals, are the go to with labs and field goldens or others with a good nose as bomb dogs.
True. They've lost out. I think hair coat was a big deal, they were either too hot or too cold. Nobody kept breeding for good nerve and they lost that over the last 50 years. They became clingy and were difficult to to use for multiple handlers. They are not ideal, to be honest.
 
Nobody kept breeding for good nerve and they lost that over the last 50 years.
I will retract that sentence. I dislike all-or-nothing statements as they are rarely true.

Replace it with Not enough breeders concentrated on good nerve so now it seems there are very few in that sweet spot of confidence without being overly suspicious, bark-at-anything/everything.
 
I will retract that sentence. I dislike all-or-nothing statements as they are rarely true.

Replace it with Not enough breeders concentrated on good nerve so now it seems there are very few in that sweet spot of confidence without being overly suspicious, bark-at-anything/everything.
Thanks @Ravenbird
I'm slowly accumulating questions and info as I go, including finding that handful of breeders that are breeding for nerve with stability and good health proven in pedigree.

I notice some overlap in the names you mentioned and similar conversations elsewhere. Lots more to do here including reading pedigrees and seeing dogs and handlers in person, over the next couple of years.

Really enjoy your comments and videos.
And scouring past threads here for more, similar. I've PMd you on one, for opinion.
 
I will retract that sentence. I dislike all-or-nothing statements as they are rarely true.

Replace it with Not enough breeders concentrated on good nerve so now it seems there are very few in that sweet spot of confidence without being overly suspicious, bark-at-anything/everything.

I kindof like my girl that barks at anything and everything. Pretty sure I paid extra for that! :)

That shit fit she pulled when the UPS guy came today was damn impressive in my opinion. Even had the UPS guy smiling and waving at me in approval! :)

Was a 60lb Cujo (but 'cept on speed) zipping across the shop in a flash to get to the baby gate and put on her barky / growly show!


Amazes me how well Agatha can hear the sounds of particular trucks arriving and recognize which is which over all of the other sounds around her that 'should' mask such a small sound out and make it imperceptable.

If I look up and she is running towards the door (baby gate since the door is usually open here lately) with her favorite ball in her mouth that means Josh just pulled up. That girl LOVES that guy! :)
 
I kindof like my girl that barks at anything and everything. Pretty sure I paid extra for that! :)

That shit fit she pulled when the UPS guy came today was damn impressive in my opinion. Even had the UPS guy smiling and waving at me in approval! :)

Was a 60lb Cujo (but 'cept on speed) zipping across the shop in a flash to get to the baby gate and put on her barky / growly show!


Amazes me how well Agatha can hear the sounds of particular trucks arriving and recognize which is which over all of the other sounds around her that 'should' mask such a small sound out and make it imperceptable.

If I look up and she is running towards the door (baby gate since the door is usually open here lately) with her favorite ball in her mouth that means Josh just pulled up. That girl LOVES that guy! :)
Yep. These are not labs or goldens that might lick an intruder to death....show them where the goodies are stashed!

Funny story about the favorite delivery man. Since a brand new puppy I've been socializing Bonnie to the mail man and his truck...talking to him while filling the HOA box in the parking lot ...
Where we practiced BO twice a day per first trainers advice...

Eventually she grew to accept that mailman but still barks at the UPS, Fedex, Amazon or UberEats drivers ...as they come to the door.

I reward her with a good girl for a valid alert bark,
But I'm still training the "enough" command, to turn off the Big Scary Imma Rip Your Face Off Bark.

Sometimes I'll put her in a down stay on leash and shoot the breeze while signing for whatever.

I try to reassure the delivery driver she is just doing her job...

Most are used to it...and some are dog lovers too.

And to the noibs I sometimes jokingly say "you know its all your fault, right?"
When they look at me with that GenZ look (whats is old get-off-my-lawn-grampa saying now..)
I continue:
"See, You walk up, drop a box with a thump and scurry away...

The dog barks, you reward them by going away on command..."

Reinforced behavior!

Sometimes people dont get my humor...🧐
 
And to the noibs I sometimes jokingly say "you know its all your fault, right?"
When they look at me with that GenZ look (whats is old get-off-my-lawn-grampa saying now..)
I continue:
"See, You walk up, drop a box with a thump and scurry away...

The dog barks, you reward them by going away on command..."

Reinforced behavior!

Sometimes people dont get my humor...🧐


I think I already mentioned how my new USPS lady is kinda cute and I really do NOT want either of the girls running her away. :)

Thankfully for me this USPS lady is not one of those people that just 'drops the box and scurries away' when a girl like Agatha runs up an is all 'mouthy' and trying to be intimidating behind her 'baby gate' quality barrier.

Mostly because of the body language this particular mail lady gives off and her obvious lack of fear of any of the fido's around here - Agatha has finally figured it out and switched from going to the door and lots of barking to grabbing her red ball and going to the door when said mail lady arrives.


I can't explain it and certainly didn't train the girl to do this but...

It happened so many times that I noticed it... :)

XBBZ37U.jpg


That girl has that same exact ball in multiple colors but that red one is always the one she grabs if someone she knows and likes comes to visit.



Previous mail guy was scared to death of the girls and would try to 'sneak up' to the box to drop the mail.

(that sort of crap is unpossible with a proper Doberman around - there is no 'sneaking up on' BS about to happen around a Doberman)

That guy delivered mail here daily for a good handful of years and there was never a single time when a Doberman was allowed to run up on or threaten him but...

That guy was still scared to death of dogs and acted like it every time. There was no 'training' that fear out of that USPS guy by having him regularly coming to deliver packages to a place where the dogs were otherwise 'friendly' towards him.

The dogs is going to spot that fear right away.
 
Not enough breeders concentrated on good nerve so now it seems there are very few in that sweet spot of confidence without being overly suspicious, bark-at-anything/everything.
I'm going to add to this thread a post I read today. She says everything I've tried to put into words myself and failed to get across what I'm seeing and feeling. I've said a hundred times that this breed is not what they use to be, and swear there were never all these problems that we see in today's Dobermans. Finally someone has said it for me. When she describes the "use to be" Doberman, that's the one I call my perfect dog who was whelped in 1991. She was all those things. She wasn't a unicorn, that was the norm back then.

OPEN LETTER TO THE DOBERMAN COMMUNITY
For the love of the Doberman….
I am writing this now because after 25 years of living with, working with, titling, and loving Dobermans, I am seeing something in the breed that I have never seen before. A steady decline in stability, confidence, and resilience that should concern every single one of us who claims to care about this dog.
I have stood beside Dobermans from multiple eras. Dogs who earned championships, obedience titles, temperament certifications, and working titles. Dobermans who lived into double digits with sound minds and bodies. Dogs who could walk into a room, assess it clearly, and settle with quiet dignity. They could be left alone without panic, crated without hysteria, and worked in true drive without spiraling into arousal. These were Dobermans who were present, confident, and sane.
Today, I am seeing far too many Dobermans who cannot tolerate simple confinement. Dogs who cannot be separated from their owners by even a few feet without emotional collapse. Dogs who tremble, spin, self-soothe through compulsive behaviors, scream in crates, and pace endlessly. Not because they are high drive, but because they are overwhelmed by their own nervous system.
You do not get to call anxiety loyalty. Clinginess is not devotion. A Doberman that cannot stand on its own four feet without unraveling is not a guardian. It is a prisoner to its weak nerves.
The Dobermans I came up in the breed with were aloof, discerning, confident, and athletic. They were watchful without hysteria, protective without panic, powerful without over compensation. They could take pressure without folding. They could be asked for work without falling apart. They thrived under structure and clear leadership.
Today, many Dobermans swing between frantic golden-retriever-style neediness and sharp overcompensation. They make defensive displays not from courage but from fear. Worse still, many cannot be fulfilled through healthy drive outlets because their food drive is flat, their toy drive is non-existent, and their genetic confidence is fractured. This is not the Doberman described in our breed standard.
To the breeders reading this. You are the gatekeepers of the Doberman’s future, not its marketers. Please stop romanticizing fragility. A dog that cannot cope with life is not “sensitive” in a charming way. It is unfit for the very role the breed was created for. Stop placing puppies into homes you know are not prepared. That is not kindness. Be brutally honest with your buyers. Tell them that a Doberman without structure becomes neurotic. Tell them that affection alone is not leadership. Tell them that these dogs will run their households if allowed, and once they do, anxiety will follow. Health matters deeply, but a long-lived Doberman with a broken mind is not a win.
To the owners. If you have chosen this breed, you have chosen responsibility. Your Doberman does not need more affection. It needs structure. It needs follow-through. It needs you to show it how to live in this world without falling apart. Crate training is not optional. Independence is not cruel. Obedience is not oppressive. And a walk around the block and a lick mat is not enrichment for a working dog.
Stop confusing hyperactivity with drive. Stop over-socializing your Doberman into insecurity. Stop excusing reactivity as “just how Dobermans are.” They do not need more freedom. They need better leadership. If you do not meet their mental and physical needs, they will not simply grow out of it. They will grow into it.
The Doberman is already under pressure from serious health concerns. To layer compromised temperament on top of that is to walk this breed toward a future where it becomes nothing more than an anxious silhouette in a striking outline.
We can do better. For the love of the Doberman, we must do better. Breeders must choose stability over trend. Owners must choose structure over comfort. As a community, we must choose honesty over righteousness.
Because clarity is kindness, and this letter is written not in judgment but in devotion to a breed that deserves more than what we are currently giving it.
Tamara Champagne
 
I'm going to add to this thread a post I read today. She says everything I've tried to put into words myself and failed to get across what I'm seeing and feeling. I've said a hundred times that this breed is not what they use to be, and swear there were never all these problems that we see in today's Dobermans. Finally someone has said it for me. When she describes the "use to be" Doberman, that's the one I call my perfect dog who was whelped in 1991. She was all those things. She wasn't a unicorn, that was the norm back then.

OPEN LETTER TO THE DOBERMAN COMMUNITY
For the love of the Doberman….
I am writing this now because after 25 years of living with, working with, titling, and loving Dobermans, I am seeing something in the breed that I have never seen before. A steady decline in stability, confidence, and resilience that should concern every single one of us who claims to care about this dog.
I have stood beside Dobermans from multiple eras. Dogs who earned championships, obedience titles, temperament certifications, and working titles. Dobermans who lived into double digits with sound minds and bodies. Dogs who could walk into a room, assess it clearly, and settle with quiet dignity. They could be left alone without panic, crated without hysteria, and worked in true drive without spiraling into arousal. These were Dobermans who were present, confident, and sane.
Today, I am seeing far too many Dobermans who cannot tolerate simple confinement. Dogs who cannot be separated from their owners by even a few feet without emotional collapse. Dogs who tremble, spin, self-soothe through compulsive behaviors, scream in crates, and pace endlessly. Not because they are high drive, but because they are overwhelmed by their own nervous system.
You do not get to call anxiety loyalty. Clinginess is not devotion. A Doberman that cannot stand on its own four feet without unraveling is not a guardian. It is a prisoner to its weak nerves.
The Dobermans I came up in the breed with were aloof, discerning, confident, and athletic. They were watchful without hysteria, protective without panic, powerful without over compensation. They could take pressure without folding. They could be asked for work without falling apart. They thrived under structure and clear leadership.
Today, many Dobermans swing between frantic golden-retriever-style neediness and sharp overcompensation. They make defensive displays not from courage but from fear. Worse still, many cannot be fulfilled through healthy drive outlets because their food drive is flat, their toy drive is non-existent, and their genetic confidence is fractured. This is not the Doberman described in our breed standard.
To the breeders reading this. You are the gatekeepers of the Doberman’s future, not its marketers. Please stop romanticizing fragility. A dog that cannot cope with life is not “sensitive” in a charming way. It is unfit for the very role the breed was created for. Stop placing puppies into homes you know are not prepared. That is not kindness. Be brutally honest with your buyers. Tell them that a Doberman without structure becomes neurotic. Tell them that affection alone is not leadership. Tell them that these dogs will run their households if allowed, and once they do, anxiety will follow. Health matters deeply, but a long-lived Doberman with a broken mind is not a win.
To the owners. If you have chosen this breed, you have chosen responsibility. Your Doberman does not need more affection. It needs structure. It needs follow-through. It needs you to show it how to live in this world without falling apart. Crate training is not optional. Independence is not cruel. Obedience is not oppressive. And a walk around the block and a lick mat is not enrichment for a working dog.
Stop confusing hyperactivity with drive. Stop over-socializing your Doberman into insecurity. Stop excusing reactivity as “just how Dobermans are.” They do not need more freedom. They need better leadership. If you do not meet their mental and physical needs, they will not simply grow out of it. They will grow into it.
The Doberman is already under pressure from serious health concerns. To layer compromised temperament on top of that is to walk this breed toward a future where it becomes nothing more than an anxious silhouette in a striking outline.
We can do better. For the love of the Doberman, we must do better. Breeders must choose stability over trend. Owners must choose structure over comfort. As a community, we must choose honesty over righteousness.
Because clarity is kindness, and this letter is written not in judgment but in devotion to a breed that deserves more than what we are currently giving it.
Tamara Champagne
Wow! Great post, @Ravenbird
Whenever I read something so well written and on point, especially a controversial issue- I try to find the author and learn more.

Where did you find this, if you dont mind? Linkage?

I did a little searching on the name, and found a likely match- and as usual went down the rabbit hole...🤣

 

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