UKC showing and how Zastava got there.

[Katyusharocket]

6 months ago, someone asked me if I planned to show Zastava. My answer was kind of a hard nope. I understood, at the time, why people do show their dogs, and that the work that training for, and then trying to execute a goal together is a way to form a wonderful bond with your dog, but it just wasn't going to be for me. Z and I had just started training for nosework and were looking for some competitions. We found the spring opener show in Hutchinson, MN. I live in southern MN and there is only one AKC club here, so UKC events are much more prevalent. So, in May, I thought she was ready to compete in nosework and she sure was! She took first place in all 4 legs in novice nosework. But, something else was cooking at that show. More times than I could count on one hand people were telling me that I  need to show my dog. One of them took a real shine to Z and we hung out much of the day. She said that she has been a handler and judge for 20 years and that i need to get Z in the ring. She gave me tons of advice not just about being in the ring but how to avoid becoming victim of some cutthroat tactics that aren't really cheating but still could be used against Z in the ring (never let anyone give your dog a treat at a dog show, stuff like that). Anyway, i was befriended by a duo of who i assumed to be sisters, and they encouraged me to show Z too. I told them I dont know what i am doing and they just replied that every single person in the arena also said or felt that way at one point. The told me to dive in and try it and lent me a show lead and a piece of cheese to bait Z into a stance and there we went.

Her first time in the ring I learned I can't use bait unless I hold it in my mouth because she got wind of that cheddar and started repeatedly jumping at my hand. So I had to feed it to her mid-run around the ring.

In any case she brought home points and ribbons that day and she and I were both hooked. She has been in 6 show rings at 3 shows now, plus the Total Dog show ring in July.

Now in September, she just achieved champion.

The judges seem very accessible. They have all been very approachable when I have questions. Twice a judge helped correct some things we did wrong that I could change before we went back in for group. I even had a wonderful conversation with Dr Cartrell D. Cooper, and it was both functional advice but also plain encouragement.

This is what i really do like and admire about UKC: you are not allowed to pay a handler. This means you either have to do the work as a team with your dog, or, be a friendly enough person that you can make friends on the fly and someone might do it for you if you ask, or, volunteer to handle your dog. We had made a nice little ringside community and I saw someone volunteer to handle a dog whose usual handler had taken a fall in the ring (and proceeded to do a fantastic job with the dog). It's a typically friendly atmosphere where I at least have made some new friends but also acquaintances that we love catching up on each other's training progress that happened since we had seen each other last.

I have never shown AKC to have any comparison, but I feel that the UKC conformation and sporting community is a place where true sportsmanship is valued as much as wanting the win, and that's what is important to me.

 

[BG1]

"This is what i really do like and admire about UKC: you are not allowed to pay a handler. This means you either have to do the work as a team with your dog, or, be a friendly enough person that you can make friends on the fly and someone might do it for you if you ask, or, volunteer to handle your dog."

TY!
This is highly useful info.
Like you I personally have zero interest in confirmation, plus BYB Bonnie is "purebred but not well bred" (no pedigree other than PAL should I wish to go thru the paperwork to sneak into an AKC event...)

for say, nosework which is an interest. I personally could care less about ribbons but appreciate the challenge of competition and the bond formed with pup working together.

So now you have given me another reason to look into UKC, later.

 

[JanS]

I personally could care less about ribbons but appreciate the challenge of competition and the bond formed with pup working together.

There is a way to do it in both UKC and AKC but I can't remember what it's called.

We had made a nice little ringside community and I saw someone volunteer to handle a dog whose usual handler had taken a fall in the ring (and proceeded to do a fantastic job with the dog).

We did have a great little corner there and there is so much to be learned from other people about different things so I think it's a great way to spend the day.
For anyone else, the handler who took a tumble was my friend who was showing Olive, who managed to trip her. I felt horrible but she said she's a horse person so she's had much worse happen to her. And the handler who took her out in the last show did do a fantastic job with her considering this is the first time I've ever handed Olive over to her.

You and Zastava did great all weekend Matt!

 

[Katyusharocket]

Thanks @JanS ! We sure worked hard at it and still managed to learn a lot to apply, moving forward. Nice work with Olive scoring reserve best on show, too!

 

[Ravenbird]

6 months ago, someone asked me if I planned to show Zastava

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences! This matters, as so many people are intimidated by the thought of showing or trialing in sports and it shouldn't be like that! Little stories like this help everyone, even if it's a newbie stumbling across this thread 3 years from now.

On the UKC website there are no events in NM at all, and nearest event is in Phoenix AZ, 5 hour drive from me. If I had the kind of support your expressed with your experience, I would be tempted. I know my dog has good solid conformation and is to standard but the nit-picking and handler detail in AKC is off-putting. Also I would love to hear kind criticism of what she might lack for learning sake, but just to "get the gate" with no input is not a learning experience. With horses, I can see conformation if they're standing in a paddock. With AKC dogs, seems like if they are stacked perfectly you can enhance or detract from faulty conformation... judges should not be able to be fooled by stacking, but maybe they aren't... what do I know?

I feel that the UKC conformation and sporting community is a place where true sportsmanship is valued as much as wanting the win, and that's what is important to me.

Me too! I know that UKC conformation titles aren't given the accolades that AKC CH is, but it should be noted that the dogs are presented and judged and found to be within standard with no glaring faults and that should be enough!

BYB Bonnie is "purebred but not well bred" (no pedigree other than PAL should I wish to go thru the paperwork to sneak into an AKC event...)

If she has PAL registration you don't have to sneak into an AKC event, you are totally eligible for anything other than conformation. Conformation is basically set up for recognizing quality for breeding registered dogs, so PAL registry would not be recognized. Nose work, obedience, agility any sports including IGP can all be entered with a PAL registration! UKC also has conformation for altered dogs - not sure if AKC does unless it's for senior dogs - anyway, it'd be fun experience if you have a UKC event near you.

Thanks again @Katyusharocket for sharing your experiences and big congratulations on your success!

 

[Katyusharocket]

With AKC dogs, seems like if they are stacked perfectly you can enhance or detract from faulty conformation... judges should not be able to be fooled by stacking, but maybe they aren't... what do I know?

UKC judges still like a nice stack, so we do work on that. Luckily for me, Zastava is not resistant to having me move her feet around, and she did seem to know what a show chain meant when it went around her neck the first time. Our biggest job to do to train together is improving our teamwork so that i can figure out how to get a gait out of her, she likes to pace. The one judge noticed it and said she had a Doberman at home and he gives her the same problem because "Dobermans are lazy, it's their MO" She was the judge that picked us for a second place win.

Me too! I know that UKC conformation titles aren't given the accolades that AKC CH is, but it should be noted that the dogs are presented and judged and found to be within standard with no glaring faults and that should be enough!

I can't figure this out. UKC is still judging the dog and handler and how they operate together. Does the AKC insist on having more accolades than UKC to protect an easily bruised ego, or is it truly a different competing and judging process? I don't honestly know.
Edit to add: the main difference I can see with my limited experience is probably the human dress code or culture. You see some people dressed to the nines at UKC events, but also people who show in jeans and a t shirt, or a hoodie and leggings. It does not appear to affect the outcome of the judging.

In talking with one judge, I asked him if he has any tips for improving. He told me it's hard to pin down how to guide a team's improvement, because at the end of the show, it's just the judges opinion, and they all have such diverse opinions. He told me the main thing Z and I need is experience, that's what is going to get a more winning and winning team.

Nose work, obedience, agility any sports including IGP can all be entered with a PAL registration!

@BG1 this is true, as well as opening up all the other activities that are evaluated rather than judged or timed, like CGC, Community Dog, CGC Urban, Trick dog and temperament testing and Farm Dog Certified. My Katyusha is a PAL dog and she has CGC, Community Dog, and CGC Urban, and Trick Dog Novice and Therapy Dog Novice titled, all through the AKC.

 

[Ravenbird]

I can't figure this out. UKC is still judging the dog and handler and how they operate together. Does the AKC insist on having more accolades than UKC to protect an easily bruised ego, or is it truly a different competing and judging process? I don't honestly know.

Somewhere on this conformation thread there's a list of getting points in AKC and then the required Majors points which have to do with numbers of dogs entered. Maybe UKC has the same thing? I don't know. In AKC you MUST go to a big show with at least X number of Dobermans that you place 1st over. If you win 50 shows under 50 different judges (hypothetically speaking) with only 2 other dogs entered you can't ever get your CH. - I'd have to go back and read it all again, so my apologies if this isn't exactly true, but that's the jest of it. I read some proud remark of a dog (not a Dobe) owner who just got their CH after a bazillion shows and spending over $25,000 in traveling, handlers and entries to get it. I'm like Nope, Nope, Nope. Sports, maybe, but not for someones opinion. Again, my opinion only, everybody can and should do what means the most to them.

He told me the main thing Z and I need is experience, that's what is going to get a more winning and winning team.

This is true no matter what venue as well - I've learned SO much just by taking my dog into these trials and being a first timer at it all.

 

[Katyusharocket]

Somewhere on this conformation thread there's a list of getting points in AKC and then the required Majors points which have to do with numbers of dogs entered. Maybe UKC has the same thing? I don't know. In AKC you MUST go to a big show with at least X number of Dobermans that you place 1st over. If you win 50 shows under 50 different judges (hypothetically speaking) with only 2 other dogs entered you can't ever get your CH. - I'd have to go back and read it all again, so my apologies if this isn't exactly true, but that's the jest of it. I read some proud remark of a dog (not a Dobe) owner who just got their CH after a bazillion shows and spending over $25,000 in traveling, handlers and entries to get it. I'm like Nope, Nope, Nope. Sports, maybe, but not for someones opinion. Again, my opinion only, everybody can and should do what means the most to them.

Yes, even this light guide into it, tells me that it would be much more difficult to get an AKC CH than UKC CH. but because of that, it also makes me much less interested in trying it. The travel and entry fees I've spent on thus far have been hefty enough for me.

This is true no matter what venue as well - I've learned SO much just by taking my dog into these trials and being a first timer at it all.

Me too, with the nosework and showing with Z but also all the evaluations I have done with Katyusha. At this point, though, there exist penciled in plans for me to keep a puppy of Z's, and that one will be working on gaiting and sniffing things out at a much earlier age than Z. I won't wait 15 months just to even begin getting experience with that one.

everybody can and should do what means the most to them.

A good thing to remind myself of every day in the morning, both about myself and about how I see others.