The Harsh Truth About Why Our Sport is Dying

[obbanner]

Wow, umm I certainly mean no disrespect Art because I do appreciate what you do, your knowledge and support for 4H being I was a 4Her myself so I truly appreciate those that support kids learning all the skills 4H can teach but... Are we reading the same article? Yes kids should grow a thicker she'll but right off the bat? It takes experiences and time for that to happen and someone to give just that little tiny bit of encouragement and wisdom in their ear. In 4H it was usually your parent or instructors. I'm failing to see how age matters here when it comes to Drew's personal experience as a newbie. And didn't Drew stick through it regardless of those experiences? I'm missing the whiney aspect of it. Maybe because I see a person who must care enough about the sport to write an article for the world to read and criticise in the first place. Are we saying that conformation and dog sports in general aren't hurting in comparison to history?

Don't we read numerous comments on here about how rude some show people were to them? All I think Drew is asking is for is compromise. If a newbie is expected to bite their tongue once in a while... Well then, so can a veteran. It goes with anything in life. Rough day? Take it out on some random person to make yourself feel better or bite your tongue because you don't know their battles they are facing just like they don't know yours. Occasionally we slip up as humans and you know what, we move on but if everyone tried to show, even a tiny bit, more compassion we wouldn't be reading so many posts about how vile show people can be. Think of how many shows someone like Fred would have gone to if his experience were even slightly different his first time out... And I know Fred probably wasn't 20 Age doesn't matter. I believe this post was simply a gentle reminder to be aware of what our actions say in how we treat one another and what itsays about our environment (in this case, conformation). Let us meet in the middle!

It may be a generational thing. To me, the article is really beyond my comprehension in so many ways. I know we should all be more polite, but the world is what it is and we have to live with it the way it is.

@Doberman Gang makes a good point about being polite to stewards. At least half the handlers thanked me for taking and returning their leads and dumbbells.

Here's a tip - the steward you're polite to today may be the judge you show under in the future. The AKC requires Obedience judges to be stewards as part of their qualifying. Conformation may have the same requirement, but I don't know.

So @MyBuddy and @Rits , thank you for your input and I'll reconsider the article.

 

[FredC]

but the world is what it is and we have to live with it the way it is.

Oh Jeez Art you dont really believe that do you?

 

[MyBuddy]

Wow, umm I certainly mean no disrespect Art because I do appreciate what you do, your knowledge and support for 4H being I was a 4Her myself so I truly appreciate those that support kids learning all the skills 4H can teach but... Are we reading the same article? Yes kids should grow a thicker she'll but right off the bat? It takes experiences and time for that to happen and someone to give just that little tiny bit of encouragement and wisdom in their ear. In 4H it was usually your parent or instructors. I'm failing to see how age matters here when it comes to Drew's personal experience as a newbie. And didn't Drew stick through it regardless of those experiences? I'm missing the whiney aspect of it. Maybe because I see a person who must care enough about the sport to write an article for the world to read and criticise in the first place. Are we saying that conformation and dog sports in general aren't hurting in comparison to history?

Don't we read numerous comments on here about how rude some show people were to them? All I think Drew is asking is for is compromise. If a newbie is expected to bite their tongue once in a while... Well then, so can a veteran. It goes with anything in life. Rough day? Take it out on some random person to make yourself feel better or bite your tongue because you don't know their battles they are facing just like they don't know yours. Occasionally we slip up as humans and you know what, we move on but if everyone tried to show, even a tiny bit, more compassion we wouldn't be reading so many posts about how vile show people can be. Think of how many shows someone like Fred would have gone to if his experience were even slightly different his first time out... And I know Fred probably wasn't 20 Age doesn't matter. I believe this post was simply a gentle reminder to be aware of what our actions say in how we treat one another and what itsays about our environment (in this case, conformation). Let us meet in the middle!

I was done with this because I was at a loss as to how to further explain myself, but @Rits nailed it! OMG. Thank you. It's great that some people are or can be a bit more articulate to explain the same thing! lol Thank you, Amanda! That is exactly what I got out of the article.

It's just a bottom line of having compassion. If you knew me, you'd know that compassion is a big deal with me. Ask my husband! LOL I talk about it all the time. That all this world needs is a bit more compassion all the way around and what a world it would be!

My take on dog shows by the little I've seen in my life and no disrespect Art, but even by your words, is that it's all cut throat, nose in the air, "I paid my dues, you pay yours, kid'', why should I help you when no one helped me, snide remarks, experienced showers with their nose in the air looking down at the newbies and laughing at their inexperience. Harsh way of putting it, but that's what it looks like from the other side of the fence.

It may be a generational thing. To me, the article is really beyond my comprehension in so many ways. I know we should all be more polite, but the world is what it is and we have to live with it the way it is.

I don't know if its generational. I'm 63 years young and you would think I might feel as you do. But I don't. I also don't feel "the world is what it is and we have to live with it." I think the world is going to hell in a hand basket (as the elders of mine used to say! lol We need to change it! And I may have more compassion (there's that word again ! for the upcoming younger generation trying to learn. Yes, I have no patience for a punk kid that is entitled, selfish, trying to skip steps, etc. But someone willing to put in the time and effort with a serious attitude has my full attention and backing.

As we were walking out of the ring, the other steward said the handler was being snarky about me for turning my back on her dog when I turned around to put her lead back and for not paying attention to the ring. That's life in the dog show world. Live with it.

I owned it. I said it. I explained that it's a mistake. I also pointed out that this was in an Open class where the handler by definition has been in previous shows and should know that stuff happens and I didn't take her comments personally.

I just wanted to explain this a little further too. I think you misunderstood my post about that little incident. I was agreeing with you there. In that particular example, I was agreeing that you made the mistake, owned it and 'lived with it'. I was agreeing that not every little thing should be glossed over just because you are a newbie. Or in this case, not a newbie. I don't think they should be babied, just helped. IF they understand the mistake they did.

 

[obbanner]

Oh Jeez Art you dont really believe that do you?

I also don't feel "the world is what it is and we have to live with it." I think the world is going to hell in a hand basket (as the elders of mine used to say!

I really meant to say the world is what it is and we have to live with it, but we also have the obligation to try to live as best we can ourselves. My church has a saying that we have to be in the world, but not of the world. Example is the strongest teacher and I try to be polite and helpful. I agree we have lived our lives in times of ever increasing coarseness, but by our personal examples, we can influence it at least with those with whom we come in contact.

 

[Rits]

I certainly agree it helps to thank those that help put on the show. I always be sure I thank a steward, thank my judge and thank a member of the club that is doing registration. A simple thank you goes a long way and especially as a newbie, it helps make those new connections with people. They'll remember you next time.

 

[katie's mom]

That was a very well written and articulate post. I have never even thought about showing Katie, but I am familiar with the horse show world, and can relate so well to everything that was said. Funny how so many people forget the periods in their lives when they were newbies, and nervous wrecks!!! A little humility and and longer memory would serve these people very well!!

 

[katie's mom]

BTW, I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "where is Hell, and what is a hand basket?"

 

[MyBuddy]

BTW, I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "where is Hell, and what is a hand basket?"

Really?! Wow, that's so funny!! Let's see, I know where Hell is but I'd like to know what a hand basket is too!!

 

[FredC]

It's a picnic basket. Now the real question is why would anybody want to go to hell in a picnic basket? (unless it's filled with sandwiches.) When I go to Hell you can bet your booty that I won't be going in anything flammable.

 

[MyBuddy]

 

[Tropicalbri's]

My two cents here may get me curb checked but hey, I have learned to roll with the punches.

First, the article Drew composed, showed aptitude, sense of compassion and passion for something other than an entitlement attitude.
A work ethic and desire to learn beyond what is seen in many kids today.
Responsibility by taking the time to articulate her thoughts on her experiences and her desire to provoke change through well placed words of where she and her generation feels change should occur.
Ability to forge ahead in the face of adversarial situations and comments.

To me that shows qualities of leadership and a desire to bridge a gap in our society that is sorely lacking in our everyday pursuits.

I find the the idea that, the world is what it is and you just have to live with it, is very frightening.

I was brought up to believe that in order to effect positive change you must first speak to what change is necessary.

Developing a thick skin is part of growing, experiencing and living with things we don't always agree with, yet manage to learn from them.

Callouses all started with thin skin and are acquired over time. Don't become so thick skinned that you close yourself off to new things that need to be nurtured as our younger generation is our future. It is our job to help guide them and assist them so we may reap the benefits of their enthusiasm and desires for a better society, whether it be in the show ring or behind a cash register.

Just seeing kids with a passion for something other than expecting everything given to them, gives me hope and a light heart that our future isn't so bleak.

I believe the term "Going to hell in a hand basket" simply means that as we go through life thinking our basket is full, we don't need to care what is occurring outside of our on little world , and as a result of that we are less likely to effect positive change to how we live.
This is not meant to be harsh to anyone, it is just my observation of what I have read.

 

[Marinegeekswife]

I have to agree with Fred, Rits, MyBuddy, and Tropicalbri's. I was raised to have a thicker skin but whether you were or not shouldn't matter. The point of this article, at least how I read it, was that if we don't adapt and start bringing in the new blood the sport is going to die. All dog sports, not just conformation. Even if the new generations are more sensitive, it is how it is and we need to adjust to them if we want them to stick around and the sports to continue to exist.

When I first reached out to a breeder about getting a Dobe puppy I was met with derision and a haughty attitude because I obviously didn't know anything. She was right, but that instantly put me off breeders and it was 5 years before I tried again. I'm so thankful that the first schutzhund club I reached out to was the club in Colorado. I've met a lot of people in the sport since that are rude, haughty, and condescending. I likely would have moved on if that's what is found first. Let's face it, all the dog sports require a ton of time, effort, and money. Why would anyone want to waste all of that for something they haven't even had the chance to become passionate about?

Like it or not most people will feel an instant turn off if they are met with rude and dismissive behavior. We can't expect them to want to power through all that if they have no basis for wanting to continue. They'll move on to the next activity until they find people they want to be around that much. I know some people look at it like if they don't want to be involved bad enough to stick it out then we don't want them either. The problem is, each year or numbers dwindle and if we keep running off 8 of the 10 people that come out with our attitudes soon there won't be anyone left.

 

[GennyB]

I was raised to have a thicker skin but whether you were or not shouldn't matter.

You're right, it shouldn't matter. My parents also raised me to be tough and I am too an extent. I will take on the battles that I have too, but it is just not in me to deal with rudeness that I came across. Not just the rudeness turned me off, it was the two faced bullsh** I couldn't deal with. People would say one thing to my face and then I would over hear them saying something different behind my back.
It's a shame really, I have a dog that could have done well. I found myself asking "if it's not fun, what's the point?"
When Drake and I went to our first trial, it was a disaster. I felt like we were not welcome and like we were imposing just being there. What I thought would be a highlight and the start of a great career for my dog, left me wanting to board a plane and go home. My feelings went right down the leash and we didn't do well. In the end it was a great learning experience for us. I still support anyone that wants to participate, it just won't be Drake and I. We still dabble in some obedience and conformation events that are know to be a more fun venue but seriously doubt we will ever join any clubs or take any dog sport on as a serious hobby.

 

[MyBuddy]

Well said, @Marinegeekswife ! And @GennyB I sit here shaking my head in disappointment for what you have endured! Shame on those folks!

 

[GennyB]

Well said, @Marinegeekswife ! And @GennyB I sit here shaking my head in disappointment for what you have endured! Shame on those folks!

Thanks, I appreciate that! I learned some valuable lessons. The most important is to have fun with your dog! It's not about the titles or who finished on top...it's about the journey. While Drake and I didn't really enjoy this phase, we did learn what we do like to do together. He is a fun dog, so enthusiastic and eager. Just because I won't be putting a bunch of letters behind his name doesn't mean I don't know what I have.

I read this article and thought it was a good reminder to remember to have fun with tour dog before anything else.
When the Collars Come Off: Dog Sports, Egos and the Struggle for Power

 

[DoberMink]

I have never showed any animal, however I did used to TRY to go to horse shows. It seems the same was there as well, and honestly, it wasn't even about me or my horse. Just the general snark and attitude. The same would go for boarding stables. I am happy to have a plave that is drama free now, but I fear the day the owner won't be there any more and I need to move to a new place.

I am on the cusp of generation X and being a Millennial myself. I am 29 and don't get along with my own generation for many reasons. I have always gotteb along better with older peers.

As others have mentioned though, it's not about age. It's about acceptance and respect. How can a newbie of age respect a veteran who is an a**hole?

Just like training horses or puppies, every individual learns a different way. If you have a timid dog who may otherwise have great potential, are you going to use harsh methods? Probably not. Likewise, you wouldn't use strictly positive reinforcement for a bull headed, thick skinned jerk of a dog either.

Everyone from dogs to horses to humans NEEDS that healthy balance.

Again, I have zero ring experience, this insight is simply life experience. I have been with my comapny for 4 years now. Started out as a frontline rep and things were great! Promoted to a licensed insurance adjuster and while the pay was great, I got recognized alot, and the work was pretty easy. But the people there were insufferable! Why? Because I was the youngest, both in age and tenure. 'No one' gets to that department after only 1 year! But I worked my butt off to be there. I didn't cut corners, it was not just given to me. I exceeded goals and expenctations at EVERY opportunity because of my engrained work ethic. But that wasn't good enough for the other adjusters. And they let me know it...daily. I was miserable for nearly 2 years and thinking of quiting. Not because the job sucked, but because of the people. But then another opportunity opened to me...the job I'm currently in, which is a pretty high end position. People have been in this department for DECADES. I am still young, still lack the amount of tenure others have in this department, and yet, I was welcomed with open arms! I have work friends, I am allowed to ask questions and make mistakes around my coworkers wothout getting verbally jabbed in the kidney.

Since 'entitlement' issues seems to be one of the heavier issues peoplemention, what about the entitled attitude of the veterans who expect to be worshiped, obeyed, and repsected 'just because'? I'm not saying this about any one person, but look at it from the other side.

It's a vicious circle of life really. Just like someone trying to get a job. Be it their first job or a job in a new field. It seems that every job wants expereince but how do you get that without getting hired first?

Sorry if I went off on a tangent, but I feel that the article written is VERY valid. This generation is all about 'acceptance'. So when they are firmly slapped in the face by those who are unacxepting of them, when they are accepting of others, it hurts. Likewise, this generation has been taught that if it hurts, leave it and find something that doesn't.

This is a generational gap, and both sides need to work at closing it. Though in my opinion, the elders should lead more by example than simply shunning.

Again, sorry for the rant.

 

[MyBuddy]

Since 'entitlement' issues seems to be one of the heavier issues peoplemention, what about the entitled attitude of the veterans who expect to be worshiped, obeyed, and repsected 'just because'? I'm not saying this about any one person, but look at it from the other side.

True, true AND true. It's a shame that more 'elders' don't take the 'newbies' under their wing. It's more like, "I went through hell to get to where I am, you better too!" But I think if someone is like you, someone working their ass off, not cutting corners but legitimately working at something, that is the person I would want to mentor.

The same would go for boarding stables.

Oh, lets not even go there! lol I've seen a few stables in my time to know the 'nose in the air' people! I thank God that I have my three horses on my own property and never have to deal with that! There are cliches everywhere!

 

[adhahn]

First off- no matter how loosely you stretch and interpret Websters; conformation shows are NOT a sport.

Secondly- there are some activities/hobbies/etc that attract large numbers of people who are predisposed to have a particular type of personality. Stereotypes DO exist for a reason.

Third- when a organization/hobby/department/business/etc is overwhelming populated by a particular type of personality it becomes a self perpetuating problem. Once the venue has a significant number of stereotypical personalities they will end up dominating. Without necessarily intending to do so, they run off newbies who cannot or will not embrace (or at least adapt to) the majority stereotype.

This phenomenon is present in many activities/hobbies and is not limited to any particular one.

A few things can happen to bring about change to an organization once it becomes entrenched and none are quick or easy.

One is for significant redirection through the owner/CEO/board of directors/etc, but that is more applicable to a business or department than a hobby.

Another is for the hobby to die off in it's present form and be resurrected by a different type of people.

A less likely but possible occurrence is for some mixture of events that creates a HUGE interest from outsiders all at once. IF by some turn of events that happens then you get an enormous influx of new, non-stereotypical participants who overwhelm and run off the previous dominating personalities.


Fourth- elevating the importance of conformation over working ability destroys breeds. It would actually be a really good thing if the dog show hobby as it currently exists were to die off.

 

[BGpa]

First off- no matter how loosely you stretch and interpret Websters; conformation shows are NOT a sport.

Secondly- there are some activities/hobbies/etc that attract large numbers of people who are predisposed to have a particular type of personality. Stereotypes DO exist for a reason.

Third- when a organization/hobby/department/business/etc is overwhelming populated by a particular type of personality it becomes a self perpetuating problem. Once the venue has a significant number of stereotypical personalities they will end up dominating. Without necessarily intending to do so, they run off newbies who cannot or will not embrace (or at least adapt to) the majority stereotype.

This phenomenon is present in many activities/hobbies and is not limited to any particular one.

A few things can happen to bring about change to an organization once it becomes entrenched and none are quick or easy.

One is for significant redirection through the owner/CEO/board of directors/etc, but that is more applicable to a business or department than a hobby.

Another is for the hobby to die off in it's present form and be resurrected by a different type of people.

A less likely but possible occurrence is for some mixture of events that creates a HUGE interest from outsiders all at once. IF by some turn of events that happens then you get an enormous influx of new, non-stereotypical participants who overwhelm and run off the previous dominating personalities.


Fourth- elevating the importance of conformation over working ability destroys breeds. It would actually be a really good thing if the dog show hobby as it currently exists were to die off.

^^^this, 8 yrs later is more true than ever...