Taste of the wild with ancient grains

[Achilles.Doberman]

Anybody here feed their dogs TOTW ancient gains? If so how does your dog like it ? & does your dog have any issue eating the food/health wise? I was advised TOTW GRAIN FREE is not good for dogs in general & it causes DCM. I wanted to know opinion on their food with grains.

 

[Ddski5]

Have not fed to mine yet…I was seriously considering the switch until my female ate some fish fry oil and ripped up her GI tract- had to switch to a low fat food for a while.

I like TOTWAG’s ingredient list and food analysis. Also like they have a couple of different main protein/flavors with the ancient grains.

My Dobermans eat everything…they would have zero issues.

 

[Ravenbird]

I was advised TOTW GRAIN FREE is not good for dogs in general & it causes DCM. I wanted to know opinion on their food with grains.

The DCM in Dobermans is a hereditary version, the grain-free foods that were associated with DCM were seen in breeds where it is not normally seen. That said, I wouldn't add insult to injury by feeding grain-free foods to a Doberman! The causation of grain-free foods associated with DCM isn't the lack of grains (dogs don't need grains), it's that the traditional grains (corn & soy) were replaced with lentils & peas. Lentils & pea family plant foods were discovered to block the absorption of Taurine, which is essential for heart function and only naturally found in meat. When meat protein is replaced by plant protein it's bad enough, but to replace meat proteins with Taurine blocking protein it is literally a recipe for disaster.

It's so important to know the whys and hows. A good website is Dog Food Adviser which lists all ingredients, the pros & cons of them and ratings for them. You can find some good 4 - 5 star kibbles on that site and you can look up your TOTW choices to see how they rate.

 

[JanS]

We've been feeding the TOTW Ancient Grains (wetlands) for quite a while now and they've done well on it.

I used to feed the grain free TOTW and they always did well but when our girl got sick with her kidney disorder the vet recommended we switch to the ancient grains.

 

[Ravenbird]

the grain-free foods that were associated with DCM were seen in breeds where it is not normally seen. That said, I wouldn't add insult to injury by feeding grain-free foods to a Doberman! The causation of grain-free foods associated with DCM isn't the lack of grains (dogs don't need grains), it's that the traditional grains (corn & soy) were replaced with lentils & peas. Lentils & pea family plant foods were discovered to block the absorption of Taurine, which is essential for heart function and only naturally found in meat. When meat protein is replaced by plant protein it's bad enough, but to replace meat proteins with Taurine blocking protein it is literally a recipe for disaster.

So just today I find this article that says the lentil/pea/bean theory was proven wrong in a 20 week study.

‘Peas of Mind’: Pulse Ingredients in Dog Food Not Linked to Heart Problems, Says New U of G Research

Ingredients such as lentils, beans and field peas typically used in grain-free dog foods are safe for healthy dogs, according to new University of Guelph research. It’s a reassuring finding for dog…

news.uoguelph.ca

Whatever the case, I still say feed as much meat protein that you can afford and avoid this family of plant protein as well as soy. Just my opinion.

 

[Rits]

So just today I find this article that says the lentil/pea/bean theory was proven wrong in a 20 week study.

‘Peas of Mind’: Pulse Ingredients in Dog Food Not Linked to Heart Problems, Says New U of G Research

Ingredients such as lentils, beans and field peas typically used in grain-free dog foods are safe for healthy dogs, according to new University of Guelph research. It’s a reassuring finding for dog…

news.uoguelph.ca

Whatever the case, I still say feed as much meat protein that you can afford and avoid this family of plant protein as well as soy. Just my opinion.

That's an incredibly short study and it only included Siberian Huskies. Supposedly no reports of Huskies developing diet related DCM in any study. There are studies that were much longer with many more breeds that were actually affected by peas & lentils and developed nutritional DCM, yet soon as they were changed to grain inclusive, saw a positive change. So I agree that I wouldn't feed grain free or think grain free was ok.

 

[Ravenbird]

I agree that I wouldn't feed grain free or think grain free was ok.

Exactly, I only posted it because I'd just said what the other conclusion was and this was the opposite of what I thought was an agreed conclusion.
Science & studies are ever changing and I will always try to keep an open mind. But again, meat proteins are best and cheaper fillers will never be better, even when they are harmless in every other way.

 

[BGpa]

I thought the problem with pulses (peas) was too much taurine, bad for dobies...

And one dog owner says her 3rd generation dobie trainer swears by the Ancient...with Grain.

So grain's ARE needed for dobes..

 

[BGpa]

PS: kinda old thread but topical given the recent lawsuit on the grain free thing...

 

[Rits]

I thought the problem with pulses (peas) was too much taurine, bad for dobies

The problem with peas is that they use them to artificially bump up the protein %. But that protein is actually coming from mostly peas and not the #1 meat ingredient. They do this by ingredient splitting the pea protein into more than one ingredient. The ingredients are in order by weight, thus the whole meat protein is typically first 3 on the list but not actually what the majority of the protein % comes from!! I avoid grain free due to this.

 

[BGpa]

TY!
And I read back a bit, and updating my misunderstanding on Taurine: heres a quote from Ravenbird in April2023 earlier in this thread:

" The causation of grain-free foods associated with DCM isn't the lack of grains (dogs don't need grains), it's that the traditional grains (corn & soy) were replaced with lentils & peas. Lentils & pea family plant foods were discovered to block the absorption of Taurine, which is essential for heart function and only naturally found in meat. When meat protein is replaced by plant protein it's bad enough, but to replace meat proteins with Taurine blocking protein it is literally a recipe for disaster."

 

[MichiH]

Great info above learned some things that I did not know.

Is fish - salmon considered “meat”?

 

[Ravenbird]

Is fish - salmon considered “meat”?

Yes!

 

[MichiH]

Yes!

Thanks! She has salmon based food, but I read taurine isn’t as plentiful in salmon. Although, I do give her an egg and meat as well.

 

[Ravenbird]

She has salmon based food, but I read taurine isn’t as plentiful in salmon. Although, I do give her an egg and meat as well.

I think Salmon has adequate taurine. You can google lists, but in my memory it's dark meat of turkey & chicken and beef heart & chicken hearts that have a really high amount per gram.