Stassi; better and worse.

[Cferg]

At my businesses shop I keep the gate on the road barely open enough to fit my truck through. I have no trespassing, caution dog will bite and no semi’s beyond this point signs all attached to the rolling gate. Oh and a 3 foot sign with my business name and address attached also. So 90% of the people that come to my shop are supposed be there and I do business with them. But there are a bunch of solar farms around me. And the truck drivers are constantly lost and looking for a different address. That’s why I almost completely close the gate and have the no semi sign. They were pulling in my property and doing U turns which was tearing up my driveway and concrete.

On Tuesday me and my employees were in the back of my shop. And Stassi was in the middle of it, between the door and us. A lost truck driver decided to not heed the signs on the fence and gate nor the one attached to my shop. He came up to my shop on foot and Stassi didn’t hear him until he was in the doorway. Well that was a really poor decision on his part. Stassi really kicked it up a notch for this guy. She charged and barked like she usually would but this time she made contact. She didn’t bite but her mouth was open (I know because the position of the sun I could see through her mouth). She hit him twice first in the front of the thigh and once on the side. It was like a muzzle punch. I was taken aback by her response usually she stays a few feet back and only gets closer if the person doesn’t stop or they try to keep moving closer. I always figured she would bite in the right situation but she went 0-9 real quick on Tuesday. She didn’t do anything wrong and nothing that I haven’t allowed in the past. But I was shocked by how quickly she went and made contact and it does have me thinking.

And now for the better. My daughter turned 12 yesterday and had a sleepover with 5 girls at our house. Stassi was great with all the girls not so much with the parents that were dropping and picking them up though hahaha

 

[Ravenbird]

You have a true protection dog! Hope the guy understood he was trespassing and is willing to forget about it!

You have to tell us the "rest of the story" - did she just stop & come back to you? (the one time Asha did something like this, the person stood stock-still and she did like a hold & bark, then wheeled around and came back to me) Did you have to call her back? Did the guy say he didn't see all the signs?

 

[JanS]

You had plenty of signs and he trespassed anyway so it sort of depends on the laws in your state. They have stupid laws here and even if someone trespasses on your property that properly signed, they can sue you if they trespass and get hurt.

 

[Cferg]

You had plenty of signs and he trespassed anyway so it sort of depends on the laws in your state. They have stupid laws here and even if someone trespasses on your property that properly signed, they can sue you if they trespass and get hurt.

Surprisingly Californias property owners liability for dog bites doesn’t cover trespassers, but you can try to sue for anything I guess. She’s been good about not going after someone outside the gate at my shop. A few weeks ago someone stayed out on the road and she just barked at them from about 50 feet from the fence opening. I attribute that to her never setting foot outside the fence on that side of the property. I guess she doesn’t perceive that as hers.

 

[Cferg]

You have a true protection dog! Hope the guy understood he was trespassing and is willing to forget about it!

You have to tell us the "rest of the story" - did she just stop & come back to you? (the one time Asha did something like this, the person stood stock-still and she did like a hold & bark, then wheeled around and came back to me) Did you have to call her back? Did the guy say he didn't see all the signs?

I’m not taking it lightly I’ve been thinking about what I’m going to do going forward. I think she really kicked it up a notch for a couple of reasons. First he walked up and completely caught her off guard. She usually hears a trucks tires soon as they turn onto the gravel. And second he was wearing gym shorts and basketball shoes. I know for certain that she’s never seen someone dressed like that at my shop. Anyone that’s allowed there is wearing jeans and work boots. Always remember this breed’s ability to recognize patterns. Even the ones you DONT!
But yes she came to heel really quickly when asked and calmed right down. She just appeared happy she genuinely noenjoys it. Even if she barks someone back into their vehicle and they leave she’s proud of herself.
The guy looked like he was going to die. I’m guessing his life flashed in front of his eyes because he couldn’t really talk. I just called her back and told him to get the F out. The fact she heels or downs when I ask usually adds another layer of seriousness to the situation for the person. Most people expect to deal with an out of control dog in a situation like that.

 

[Ravenbird]

I’m not taking it lightly I’ve been thinking about what I’m going to do going forward. I think she really kicked it up a notch for a couple of reasons. First he walked up and completely caught her off guard. She usually hears a trucks tires soon as they turn onto the gravel. And second he was wearing gym shorts and basketball shoes. I know for certain that she’s never seen someone dressed like that at my shop. Anyone that’s allowed there is wearing jeans and work boots. Always remember this breed’s ability to recognize patterns. Even the ones you DONT!
But yes she came to heel really quickly when asked and calmed right down. She just appeared happy she genuinely noenjoys it. Even if she barks someone back into their vehicle and they leave she’s proud of herself.
The guy looked like he was going to die. I’m guessing his life flashed in front of his eyes because he couldn’t really talk. I just called her back and told him to get the F out. The fact she heels or downs when I ask usually adds another layer of seriousness to the situation for the person. Most people expect to deal with an out of control dog in a situation like that.

Sounds like the best case scenario to me. I know I posted on here when Asha made a run at someone, @Doberman Gang advised to never leave my property without the e-collar on. (we were about 25 feet outside my fenced property) So apples & oranges - you were well within your property and in a private building no less. I did learn though that when these dogs hit the height of their desire to drive someone away on their own accord with no commands it's a pretty amazing thing to see. When it was all over, on one hand I was going "wow" and the other hand I was very concerned about liabilities of having this dog.

 

[Cferg]

@Ravenbird Stassi is opening up to people quicker. But I have to tell them don’t pet her until she comes up to you and her head is away from you. I’ve learned that through some close calls. She’s approaching my guests with less suspicion nowadays (from the front relaxed, ears not up but not pinned back). She genuinely looks to most people like she wants a pet. She has snapped a couple of times mouth open but no bite. So I now I tell new people until she puts her butt against you don’t touch her.

Through all the events I’ve seen with Stassi of her “near” bites. I truly believe there are no accidental bites a dog bites you the exact amount it means to. Even other dogs she’s snapped at them but doesn’t bite. When she wants to warn. Makes contact but doesn’t bite them.

 

[Ddski5]

I would say job well done Stassi and even give her praise and treats. She is doing the job meant to be.

 

[Ravenbird]

Through all the events I’ve seen with Stassi of her “near” bites. I truly believe there are no accidental bites a dog bites you the exact amount it means to. Even other dogs she’s snapped at them but doesn’t bite. When she wants to warn. Makes contact but doesn’t bite them.

100% agree. If a dog means to lay a bite it will do just that. I think you've done a great job with her considering her temperament.

 

[Cferg]

I think you've done a great job with her considering her temperament.

I want a little bit more sociability with the next one. I would love to be able to show off more of Stassi’s obedience by allowing her more freedom around the public. That’s just not responsible with her. And I’ve found some people equate a well trained dog as being safe and approachable. I’ve experienced this quite a few times also.

 

[Ravenbird]

I would love to be able to show off more of Stassi’s obedience by allowing her more freedom around the public. That’s just not responsible with her.

I'm sure she's a couple notches sharper than mine, but believe me, it can be done. It's not easy and it's like a marathon that never ends, but you have what it takes to do it. Hard relentless training and trading what she wants more than anything in the world for a job well done. It's like new crack when they think you'll give them 15 seconds of ball play (or whatever) in trade for stupid pet tricks*. In turn you use stupid pet tricks to make her behave in public and keep her triggers under her belt. *Stupid pet tricks meaning whatever action or inaction behavior you want her to do or not do.

 

[Cferg]

I'm sure she's a couple notches sharper than mine, but believe me, it can be done. It's not easy and it's like a marathon that never ends, but you have what it takes to do it. Hard relentless training and trading what she wants more than anything in the world for a job well done. It's like new crack when they think you'll give them 15 seconds of ball play (or whatever) in trade for stupid pet tricks*. In turn you use stupid pet tricks to make her behave in public and keep her triggers under her belt. *Stupid pet tricks meaning whatever action or inaction behavior you want her to do or not do.

What you’re describing is totally doable with Stassi. I was thinking more of like letting her run free on a public beach and those type of situations. Yes if I had her fully engaged 100% of the time and kept her close she would be fine….maybe

 

[earlthedoberman]

those truck drivers need to learn to read signs smh

 

[Ravenbird]

I was thinking more of like letting her run free on a public beach and those type of situations.

Oh, okay. You probably could. Pick a quiet time to test her out with e-collar on for back up?

I want a little bit more sociability with the next one.

I meant to answer this - me too, but I want the fire as well. I'm loving Benchmarks articles on nerve and their quest to balance it, but they usually require working homes only on their litters.

 

[Cferg]

I meant to answer this - me too, but I want the fire as well. I'm loving Benchmarks articles on nerve and their quest to balance it, but they usually require working homes only on their litters

Yes I follow some of her stuff she posts. She does seem to describe a lot of her dogs as social. But that is subjective without seeing the dogs yourself. They could be social compared to Stassi haha
But the average golden retriever in a Doberman suit owner might see her dogs as monsters.

Vom landgraf has been breeding more lately. And she is only 3-4 hrs north of me I really need to make contact and go see her dogs. When I met with Joel Monroe she was really the only breeder he seemed to really know. There is another in socal maybe even Bakersfield but he didn’t have much to say and wasn’t too familiar with their dogs. Benchmark has Joel listed as an approved trainer for their dogs but, he never heard of them. He couldn’t recall ever see one of their dogs anywhere working.

 

[Kaiser2016]

I think she did a great job!

I did learn though that when these dogs hit the height of their desire to drive someone away on their own accord with no commands it's a pretty amazing thing to see. When it was all over, on one hand I was going "wow" and the other hand I was very concerned about liabilities of having this dog.

It is quite the sight to behold, but I'm always glad it's never an up close and personal sort of encounter.

 

[Ddski5]

I agree that it’s doable. I did it with Ragnar and Freyja, both offleash controlled by ECollar. Freyja is not comparable to Stassi but Rag maybe somewhat.

I worked the ECollar so much with Ragnar at the soccer fields that I was confident that I could control him as long as I controlled the environment. Meaning, I always had my head on a swivel and saw the situation happen beforehand. If it was nice and casual out there, we were good but as it amped up with people or I happen to see that dog coming our way then he was called back and put on the leash. You just have to know where that threshold is and I didn’t challenge it. We never did any consistent social threshold training, I was happy and thankful to get what he gave me. I say that but a couple of times I didn’t see that dog come through the tree line at Ragnar who was 30’ out front. He did see the pit and immediately looked at me like whatcha want me to do here dad…I didn’t say or do anything, I think I actually froze because I got caught and here was this pit b-lining at Rag. He stayed still, not moving and stared the pit down. The pit circled Rag 3-5 times and then went back into the tree line. Pucker factor was 10/10. My point there is that we might be surprised how well our Dobermans would do if exposed to the freedom of their own will and the confidence of our presence. I know I know….that’s a major gamble that could turn into an extremely dangerous situation but just sharing that experience.


I don’t think I ever became fully comfortable with folks coming up and petting him. I let them do it but I always had the back of my mind worry because it was so hard to read him. Ragnar was always at my side or in front of me and I told them to not hug or get close to his face and not to pat his head. He never did anything mean or negative to anyone with an innocent aura, he did bow up on a couple of men for no overt reason but I chalked that up to his spidey senses.

 

[Cferg]

I agree that it’s doable. I did it with Ragnar and Freyja, both offleash controlled by ECollar. Freyja is not comparable to Stassi but Rag maybe somewhat.

I can appreciate what you have been through and accomplished. My problem with Stassi’s aggression is towards strange humans. Or at least that’s what I have to worry about because it could bring the biggest consequences.

I have an example for you. A couple of summers ago (Stassi would’ve been 2) we went down to the marina at the lake where we keep our boat. We weren’t going out but I needed to check something. Anyway when we were done with the boat we were back on the shore and I was going to test it. She had been pretty relaxed at the marina and dock. She had also seemed to not have any interest in the family’s on the shore picnicking. So I let her off leash she was running around checking the shallow water and such, on her own accord was staying within 15yards of us. She in a blink of an eye not giving the hard stare beforehand. Charged and barked 3 large 20-30 year old males. She blew through the ecollar on the way to them she recalled but not before getting to them and giving them a piece of her mind. And what made it even worse or from a predictability standpoint, is she went past 2-3 families barking on her way to the males. These guys did look like s**t bags but I’m not going to romanticize what she did and say she knew. But I am lucky that interacting with law enforcement was about the last thing these guys would wanted to do.

 

[Rits]

She blew through the ecollar on the way to them

Does she have a double receiver collar now? Thank you for not romanticizing the situation. How scary... I agree with you, she's a bit too sharp for her own good and I would be incredibly, incredibly careful as you are trying to be.

 

[Ravenbird]

She in a blink of an eye not giving the hard stare beforehand. Charged and barked

This is what Asha has done twice, both times returning to me, neither time did I have the e-collar on and also my heart in my throat willing her not to bite. Once it was a person & dog and once it was just people. I tried to search for my posts here about it but can't find it. Like Stassi, I think both times was at age 2. I doubled down on training and impulse control especially. Her "out the window desire" is a sleeve or a ball, so I made her do tons (and I mean tons!) of off leash obedience with the prize in sight, on the ground or in my hand. At home and then at parks in town. She learned that it could be had at any time as a reward for ignoring it. Between that and maturity she has become very willing to comply.