Rubie in Barn Hunt

Awww, I hope it gets better! I do get it though. You've both gotta be having fun to make it worth it, that's for sure. I can see Rubie's mindset with learning something new is fun, the rinse & repeat not so much. Maybe the experienced folks here will have some ideas to make it fresh?
 
Well...

We entered a TINY trial yesterday. There were 4 dogs total in Open. Not 4 blinds... 4 DOGS. Spent almost 3 hours in the car round trip and was on-site for about 45 minutes total. But hey, I was home before 10:15am!!

We timed out on our first run which has been Rubie's M.O. Find one rat, tunnel, climb, time out.

I think I was so eager to get our 3rd Open Q that when she pawed a tube in our second run, I called RAT. Pawing a tube is not her (typical) indicator :facepalm: Left empty handed and me calling my first wrong tube in trial.

I don't think any of the other dogs in Open Qed across either run. It was hot even though it was early and none of the dogs seemed particularly ramped up. The other 3 ladies were talking while we were in the blind and it sounds like they've all been in Open Purgatory for a while.

I'm sort of thinking we won't get very far in Senior (if we ever get there hahahahaha). Timing out in Open gives me little hope we can work fast enough in Senior. I've already sent premiums in for two upcoming barn hunts but that may be it for Rubie! She's getting into the same mindset that she got into in Agility. Training is fun for her, trialing is a struggle. Unfortunately, I can't justify spending all that time and money on either if we're not going to progress.
And that's ok. Have fun where and when you can. When it's not fun anymore, move on and maybe come back later to see if there's a different approach and mindset to get progress. If not, that just may be her limits. That's ok!
 
Awww, I hope it gets better! I do get it though. You've both gotta be having fun to make it worth it, that's for sure. I can see Rubie's mindset with learning something new is fun, the rinse & repeat not so much. Maybe the experienced folks here will have some ideas to make it fresh?

That's almost exactly what it seems to be. Something is fun and new and exciting and we Qed 3/3 for our Novice Title! In Open, we've Qed 2/8, I think. Those are like Masters Level Q rates :rofl: She just gets into a trial environment and has zero motivation (EXCEPT WITH FCAT!!!). I know it's not about Qs but she just doesn't look like she wants to be there.

And that's ok. Have fun where and when you can. When it's not fun anymore, move on and maybe come back later to see if there's a different approach and mindset to get progress. If not, that just may be her limits. That's ok!

I appreciate that. I feel we have all the basic titles down but then you get into more advanced stuff and she's like, NOPE! Someone probably looks at her titles and goes, Wow, they don't stay committed to anything (I don't doubt it in the dog world!). Maybe we'll stick to FCAT for a while!
 
I appreciate that. I feel we have all the basic titles down but then you get into more advanced stuff and she's like, NOPE! Someone probably looks at her titles and goes, Wow, they don't stay committed to anything (I don't doubt it in the dog world!). Maybe we'll stick to FCAT for a while!

I found Dobies get bored and taking a break can help. It can help you as well. I try very hard not to enter the ring with a negative attitude, which was very difficult when AJ had the Gabapentin episode. One way that helps is to think let's find one rat. Only one rat. When one is found, we scored a victory even if we didn't Q. Then if we find more (or all), it's a huge victory. I try not go get ahead of myself mentally in the ring.
 
One way that helps is to think let's find one rat. Only one rat. When one is found, we scored a victory even if we didn't Q. Then if we find more (or all), it's a huge victory. I
That's exactly what we did at our first trial between days. It really helps you walk away feeling accomplished because you set goals that are achievable! Ripley hit a litter tube the first time and played with the pool noodle so I said, let's hit one rat and out the noodle when told. Not leave it alone, because I knew it would be too tempting until we could work on it at home, but I knew she knew how to out. Adding the tunnel in for a Q was too much to ask. Needed more work at home with the board added in. The next day she outted the bumper AND found the rats in both trials! We didn't Q but we both left happy, which is really refreshing. A break is always a good thing too.

@LifeofRubie I don't look at the novice titles as not being able to focus on one thing. I see it as being able to train and have fun as a team in multiple things. There is no race or bar you need to hold yourself against. You do things at your pace, at Rubie's pace and what sounds fun to you and what she finds fun. If she isn't having fun in anything, take a breather and come back to it. What can you do to make it more fun? Trial stress is a real thing and I've read so many times how the Handler's stress and pressure can be felt right down to the dog to where the dog does great at home but doesn't in trials because of this new pressure.
 
Now, what did I say earlier about Shylah being perfect for lizard hunting. This is her second lizard (that I've seen her catch)...the last one got away because she put it down to look at it. This time, she didn't take any chances. Of course, when we released it, she was like, "Hey, I caught that; that's mine!"
 

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What did I say about hunting rats earlier?? Well, here is one rat that didn't get away! Shylah really wanted it; it was much more exciting than lizards.
 

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Rubie would love to get her paws on one that wasn't in a tube :rofl:
Poor Twilight almost went crazy when she caught a wiff of that rat...but it was out of reach. I won't let them get at them because I don't know if they have eaten poison. But it was with Twilight that I learned to deal with rats barehanded.
 
Yesterday's barn hunt resulted in no Qs. Rubie had been pottied several times when we arrived and before our first run but once we were in the ring, I could tell she had to go and didn't want her to try and work through it so we left.

Second trial, she tunneled, found a rat, did her climb but would NOT tell me where the second rat was. I knew it had to be elevated, I saw two tubes, took a 50/50 chance and called the wrong one! Not too worried about that as she didn't indicate on either and it was either time out or take a guess. Any insight or feedback on that @obbanner ?

I don't think I saw a single dog Q in the runs I watched. It was hot, people were waiting forever for their runs, tempers were getting a little short.

Our next trial is in August but I think we're done till it gets cold, regardless of the results. I do really want that last Open Q, though!
 
Well, at least you gave it a whirl. Be curious about the advice from obbanner, but sounds like waiting until fall or cooler weather with a total break from it would be my route. Also sounds like ALL the runs were going poorly. Sometimes it's just the place/weather/atmosphere/who knows. Hat's off for the effort!
 
Second trial, she tunneled, found a rat, did her climb but would NOT tell me where the second rat was. I knew it had to be elevated, I saw two tubes, took a 50/50 chance and called the wrong one! Not too worried about that as she didn't indicate on either and it was either time out or take a guess. Any insight or feedback on that @obbanner ?

I don't think I saw a single dog Q in the runs I watched. It was hot, people were waiting forever for their runs, tempers were getting a little short.

It's good that you didn't talk her into calling a bedding. Not having been there, all I can say is the rat didn't do it's job! Keep trying!

I had a frustrating run last weekend because AJ was STANDING on the rat and didn't call it. There was a small square opening between four bales, AJ went down into it and stood on the rat, then he jumped out. Sometimes that just happens. (My first run AJ had the zoomies - he was running all over the course just happy as could be and I did a Hail Mary CLEAR with one rat left because I felt we were almost out of time.)

I'm sorry you had a bad weekend. If the event has a comfortable place for people to wait for their runs and socialize, it makes life much easier and people don't mind waiting.

Yes, weather can make quite a difference. If the air is 'dead', odors don't travel. If it's breezy, the odors can travel and fool the dog. It's part of the learning process.

I'm thinking about learning nosework because that sport seems to be more involved with how the dog smells. I sometimes have the same problem Rubie just had where she didn't call the rat. Was the nose malfunctioning? Is pollen a factor? Does the dog need training to recognize the rat odor? Unfortunately I have a lot going on now and have to put it off for a few months. I haven't worked AJ with the hot dog tubes for a while and that may also be a factor.
 
It's good that you didn't talk her into calling a bedding. Not having been there, all I can say is the rat didn't do it's job! Keep trying!

I had a frustrating run last weekend because AJ was STANDING on the rat and didn't call it. There was a small square opening between four bales, AJ went down into it and stood on the rat, then he jumped out. Sometimes that just happens. (My first run AJ had the zoomies - he was running all over the course just happy as could be and I did a Hail Mary CLEAR with one rat left because I felt we were almost out of time.)

I'm sorry you had a bad weekend. If the event has a comfortable place for people to wait for their runs and socialize, it makes life much easier and people don't mind waiting.

Yes, weather can make quite a difference. If the air is 'dead', odors don't travel. If it's breezy, the odors can travel and fool the dog. It's part of the learning process.

I'm thinking about learning nosework because that sport seems to be more involved with how the dog smells. I sometimes have the same problem Rubie just had where she didn't call the rat. Was the nose malfunctioning? Is pollen a factor? Does the dog need training to recognize the rat odor? Unfortunately I have a lot going on now and have to put it off for a few months. I haven't worked AJ with the hot dog tubes for a while and that may also be a factor.

Ugh, rough weekends all around, it seems! I would even take zoomies from Rubie because then at least she's saying she's glad to be there :rofl:

There was a classmate of mine with both her dogs (one in Masters and one in Open) and across all 8 runs, they didn't Q in anything. Her Masters dog Qed in 3 of 4 runs at their last trial so they're an excellent team. For their open runs, the first run, her dog snuck out the fence so it was an "equipment failure." His make-up run he peed. His second run they timed out. I think they had issues with him indicating yesterday. Their first Masters run on Saturday, she had run from her open ring to the masters and just forgot she had to call clear and timed out. Called clear too early for her second run and I think her dog just wasn't indicating yesterday.

Someone at FCAT yesterday said they don't bother doing Barn Hunt in the summer because their Q rate just plummets and it's a lot of time and money when she knows they aren't going to be successful. The heat and humidity just mess with the smells. And again, I'm not used to waiting in my car and we got there at around 10:30 on Saturday and didn't run till after 12:30. Rubie was mentally exhausted before we stepped foot into a ring.

Ah, well. Live and learn! There's always next time!
 
And again, I'm not used to waiting in my car and we got there at around 10:30 on Saturday and didn't run till after 12:30. Rubie was mentally exhausted before we stepped foot into a ring.
Do you bring a crate for her to wait in? I find that helps the most with energy levels. That way she can just hang out and not have to exert any physical or mental energy. Ripley is the same way, she doesn't like to wait for go time. It's a fine line of getting the edge off of her and not over doing it. For shows we like to get her there an hour before, potty her, walk her around to stretch and get her sniffs out then back in the kennel while we check in and potty ourselves then 15 min prior get her out again, potty, groomed and warm up games. It's really hard on her when they are running behind...

Barn hunt is probably more fun to save for the cooler weather anyways! A sport you can do indoors 😁
 
I'm thinking about learning nosework because that sport seems to be more involved with how the dog smells. I sometimes have the same problem Rubie just had where she didn't call the rat. Was the nose malfunctioning? Is pollen a factor? Does the dog need training to recognize the rat odor? Unfortunately I have a lot going on now and have to put it off for a few months. I haven't worked AJ with the hot dog tubes for a while and that may also be a factor.
Knowing a little nose work but not barn hunt (except what you all have been describing) I think it would be a tremendous advantage to take NW lessons from teacher who specializes in NW. There's lots of science to it, when scent rises and when it swirls and when it pockets in corners etc etc. Also you guys are doing work with multiple "sources" in one area plus the addition of bedding tubes. Is the bedding in the ratless tubes used or clean? If used, in NW it would be called "residual" odor and they are taught to only alert on source odor and to ignore residual. My teacher stressed letting the dog find their own style of searching and learning to read it. I love NW and Asha does too, wish I didn't have so much on my plate right now, it's another thing I really want to do!

What are the hot dog tubes you refer to?
 
Knowing a little nose work but not barn hunt (except what you all have been describing) I think it would be a tremendous advantage to take NW lessons from teacher who specializes in NW. There's lots of science to it, when scent rises and when it swirls and when it pockets in corners etc etc. Also you guys are doing work with multiple "sources" in one area plus the addition of bedding tubes. Is the bedding in the ratless tubes used or clean? If used, in NW it would be called "residual" odor and they are taught to only alert on source odor and to ignore residual. My teacher stressed letting the dog find their own style of searching and learning to read it. I love NW and Asha does too, wish I didn't have so much on my plate right now, it's another thing I really want to do!

What are the hot dog tubes you refer to?

yes, I've heard several people say your dog benefits from nosework in barn hunt. Unfortunately... I'm rather at my max and probably even spending a little too much $$ on dog stuff at the moment so... :rolleyes:

There are both (used) litter tubes and empty empty tubes on the course (but that have most likely has rat/litter in them at some point). For Dingo in particular, she seems to know for sure when something is empty. Sometimes she just forgets to tell me when something contains a rat :D
 
Knowing a little nose work but not barn hunt (except what you all have been describing) I think it would be a tremendous advantage to take NW lessons from teacher who specializes in NW. There's lots of science to it, when scent rises and when it swirls and when it pockets in corners etc etc. Also you guys are doing work with multiple "sources" in one area plus the addition of bedding tubes. Is the bedding in the ratless tubes used or clean? If used, in NW it would be called "residual" odor and they are taught to only alert on source odor and to ignore residual. My teacher stressed letting the dog find their own style of searching and learning to read it. I love NW and Asha does too, wish I didn't have so much on my plate right now, it's another thing I really want to do!

What are the hot dog tubes you refer to?

Thanks for the info. There's three types of tubes depending on the level. Empty is a clean, empty tube. Bedding is a tube with fresh, dirty bedding and then the rat tube which also has bedding in it.

The hot dog tube is a training method I started using after I read that dogs can detect heat. I cook a hot dog and put a third of it in a tube, put the hot dog tube and two empty tubes down, then send AJ to it. If he calls the hot dog and paws it, I reward him with the hot dog. I find doing it three times is sufficient for a training session.
 
I was thinking about this. Rats get put in tubes with fresh bedding and are swapped out often. Sometimes rats eliminate in the tubes in large quantities. I think a dog may think a rat tube with soiled bedding can smell like a litter tube. So Rubie may have thought there were two litter tubes.

When wrangling I had rat tubes handed off from the other wrangler with a warning that it's a dripping tube. It was a good call not to force her to call a tube.

Do you know if rats were changed often?
 
The hot dog tube is a training method I started using after I read that dogs can detect heat. I cook a hot dog and put a third of it in a tube, put the hot dog tube and two empty tubes down, then send AJ to it. If he calls the hot dog and paws it, I reward him with the hot dog. I find doing it three times is sufficient for a training session.
Personally, I think this would only teach a dog to find a hot dog. Something like this is used in higher level NW, a food distraction. The dog (using BH as an example) should point out a tube with a rat and ignore the tube with a hot dog. In a high level NW trial there can be food in a bowl on the floor! I admit that I don't know anything about training BH, but from a NW point of view - which is what BH is - they use scent not sight, right? - you want them to alert only on a live rat and ignore everything else.
I'm rather at my max and probably even spending a little too much $$ on dog stuff at the moment so... :rolleyes:

I'm with you on that!!! I'd be so damn broke if I had all the choices you do for lessons and trials!!!!
 

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