Reactive puppy

[Juliaa]

Hang in there, dobermama! You got this! If your dog is a working line, high drive dog, that explains a lot of his behaviors. I don't have a lot of advice, but I know how it feels!

If I add one thing, I wonder if he is not being fully challenged? It sounds like you are doing a great job exercusung and training him... for a regular dog. But, speaking from experience as a high drive dog owner, Gilly becomes a holy terror when not fully worked. And his threshold is a LOT higher than a regular pet. We walk or run at least a couple miles a day. But, that doesn't really fully engage him. He still does group obedience classes, does search and rescue training 1-2x/week, and on our off days, I still have to prepare " search problems" for him, that engage his brain and nose. I also take him "out in public" for training in high distraction places at least once a week. In other words-- he is THE MOST EXTRA dog lol! When I am sick or God forbid can't work him, I have about 24 hours before he grows horns and turns into a hyper destructive doberdemon lol!

However, his drive has made him an amazing search and rescue prospect for a very intensive program. I have seen this little nut do some really amazing things. And he is more than my pet, him and I are becoming true partners. And, because of him, I have an opportunity to do some really meaningful and impactful work that a human could never do.

Anyways, I know this is a long post, but I see some similarities in our dogs, and I just wanted to give you hope and commiserate on that high drive life!! I think your boy could end up amazing; it just might take a lot more effort than a companion dog!

Edit to add: the only thing that gives me pause is that stress on waking up- I'm sure you'll monitor and get that checked out, but keep us posted on that!

Hello! Thanks for the post! Back to when I said he was having those sleep disturbances, they ended up stopping completely after about two weeks, not sure what that was about. We just got him back from a two week board and train program I enrolled him in. A trainer/behaviour specialist worked with him.. There is a massive difference he’s a completely different pup we are shocked. We need to keep up on our homework and keep correcting him for things. But it has been confirmed that he does have a genetic default, he’s very nervy, it started at early as 4 months old displaying very strange behaviour for a puppy while still having socialization. Like aggressive towards everyone and dogs but it’s more fear and nervousness. Unfortunately because of these circumstances it’s not something he will grow out of, it can only be managed and closely monitored. We have to be very aware and careful, he needs to be crated when company is over. We are very upset we don’t have a happy outgoing puppy or just a dog we can trust in general, we do have a 6 year old nephew and friends with kids so we are looking into rehoming to someone single or a couple with no kids and property. We can manage everything else but managing this is too much for us, as he reaches a year old or so it will turn into more aggression or rebellious behaviour we were told. Already from 5-6 months old he has lunged at a few people for no reason, thank god I had him on a leash. Anyways, I hope we can find him an amazing home maybe more out in the country with someone who will be a strong leader for him. That’s where we’re at with our pup.. other than that, we know he’ll be amazing in many other ways. Just can’t trust him around anyone

 

[Cferg]

Hello! Thanks for the post! Back to when I said he was having those sleep disturbances, they ended up stopping completely after about two weeks, not sure what that was about. We just got him back from a two week board and train program I enrolled him in. A trainer/behaviour specialist worked with him.. There is a massive difference he’s a completely different pup we are shocked. We need to keep up on our homework and keep correcting him for things. But it has been confirmed that he does have a genetic default, he’s very nervy, it started at early as 4 months old displaying very strange behaviour for a puppy while still having socialization. Like aggressive towards everyone and dogs but it’s more fear and nervousness. Unfortunately because of these circumstances it’s not something he will grow out of, it can only be managed and closely monitored. We have to be very aware and careful, he needs to be crated when company is over. We are very upset we don’t have a happy outgoing puppy or just a dog we can trust in general, we do have a 6 year old nephew and friends with kids so we are looking into rehoming to someone single or a couple with no kids and property. We can manage everything else but managing this is too much for us, as he reaches a year old or so it will turn into more aggression or rebellious behaviour we were told. Already from 5-6 months old he has lunged at a few people for no reason, thank god I had him on a leash. Anyways, I hope we can find him an amazing home maybe more out in the country with someone who will be a strong leader for him. That’s where we’re at with our pup.. other than that, we know he’ll be amazing in many other ways. Just can’t trust him around anyone

What kind of trainer did you take him to? Do they have much experience with working breeds? Were there training methods balanced?

 

[Juliaa]

What kind of trainer did you take him to? Do they have much experience with working breeds? Were there training methods balanced?

Yes they’re very experienced, different programs but they also train service dogs, help aggressive dogs that are about to be euthanized essentially saving them from that happening, puppy programs, it’s all customized for each dog what they need since every dog is different. They’re relationship based trainers, behavioural specialists. Since our pup is 6 months and very nervy it was food driven a lot and they couldn’t do “hard” corrections, they didn’t want to break him since he is so young. The dogs stay in the trainers home instead of a facility, they have their service dogs that know their jobs. But boy is there a huge difference, he walks beautifully now, right by my side, if I stop, he stops and sits, correction if needed. Not running around the house acting out of control grabbing everything in sight, jumping, terrorizing our other dog etc..the list could go on, there was a lot. We are continuing our homework to keep up on it. He won’t even dare run ahead of me when going outside. Been doing everything we ask of him, of course I reward him for it. He’s always been a strange pup since the day we got him. First week with us when we first got him he was so great with everyone, friends family visiting, vet, pet stores.. one week later it all flipped upside down, at 4 months old .. we’re told that is very abnormal which I knew it was. We are told these “genetic defaults” can happen early or creep up. He is very sketch with pretty much all people even when they don’t care about him as in not walking up to him petting him and doing things to trigger him. Everyone he was completely fine with, he’s the opposite now. Excessive barking and lunging. Although we’ve noticed less barking since he’s returned home with other things, It’s strange for sure.. I will add to this that the trainer used to breed Dobermans and work with them so he does know the working breed very well. They also do protection work training etc, you get the point lol

 

[Cferg]

Yes they’re very experienced, different programs but they also train service dogs, help aggressive dogs that are about to be euthanized essentially saving them from that happening, puppy programs, it’s all customized for each dog what they need since every dog is different. They’re relationship based trainers, behavioural specialists. Since our pup is 6 months and very nervy it was food driven a lot and they couldn’t do “hard” corrections, they didn’t want to break him since he is so young. The dogs stay in the trainers home instead of a facility, they have their service dogs that know their jobs. But boy is there a huge difference, he walks beautifully now, right by my side, if I stop, he stops and sits, correction if needed. Not running around the house acting out of control grabbing everything in sight, jumping, terrorizing our other dog etc..the list could go on, there was a lot. We are continuing our homework to keep up on it. He won’t even dare run ahead of me when going outside. Been doing everything we ask of him, of course I reward him for it. He’s always been a strange pup since the day we got him. First week with us when we first got him he was so great with everyone, friends family visiting, vet, pet stores.. one week later it all flipped upside down, at 4 months old .. we’re told that is very abnormal which I knew it was. We are told these “genetic defaults” can happen early or creep up. He is very sketch with pretty much all people even when they don’t care about him as in not walking up to him petting him and doing things to trigger him. Everyone he was completely fine with, he’s the opposite now. Excessive barking and lunging. Although we’ve noticed less barking since he’s returned home with other things, It’s strange for sure.. I will add to this that the trainer used to breed Dobermans and work with them so he does know the working breed very well. They also do protection work training etc, you get the point lol

How are his environmentals?

 

[Two Dobes]

Sorry you are going through this; I am sure it is hard to have to rehome him, but admirable that you recognize that he is not a good fit. I have had a dog with sudden rage, (not sure if I ever posted about it) but the Dobe came to us as an adult; so not sure how he was as a pup....when I first read your post, I felt his behavior may be the early stages.
Keep us posted!

 

[Juliaa]

How are his environmentals?

Could you elaborate on environmentals?

 

[Juliaa]

Sorry you are going through this; I am sure it is hard to have to rehome him, but admirable that you recognize that he is not a good fit. I have had a dog with sudden rage, (not sure if I ever posted about it) but the Dobe came to us as an adult; so not sure how he was as a pup....when I first read your post, I felt his behavior may be the early stages.
Keep us posted!

Thank you, it has been a ride for sure.. With your dog there were no signs? It was just totally sudden? The trainers told us it is manageable but I really don’t feel we’re the people for that and to be honest we don’t really want to live that way either as sad as it is. Especially knowing other things will creep up with the adolescence stage like aggression and more reactivity as I wrote in the other post he does do quite well with everything else overall, it’s just too bad. Like I said, I am so stunned by how much he’s improved from the program, I was so skeptical.

 

[Cferg]

@Juliaa If your dog’s environmentals are good. And you continue obedience and give him structure. I guarantee you he will smooth out a lot by the time he is 3 years old.

Just out of curiosity. And to understand what the average Doberman owner wants from the breed. How far off is your dog from your expectations? And how exactly do you see those shortcomings impact the way you want to live your life. No judgements either way. There just always seems to be debates on here about which way the breed should be heading, in regards to temperment.

 

[Two Dobes]

Thank you, it has been a ride for sure.. With your dog there were no signs? It was just totally sudden? The trainers told us it is manageable but I really don’t feel we’re the people for that and to be honest we don’t really want to live that way either as sad as it is. Especially knowing other things will creep up with the adolescence stage like aggression and more reactivity as I wrote in the other post he does do quite well with everything else overall, it’s just too bad. Like I said, I am so stunned by how much he’s improved from the program, I was so skeptical.

Looking back, there were signs...it was a gradual thing. It's like they "black out" for a moment...eyes go black, and become perfectly still. It is tragic; and I believe inherited.

 

[Juliaa]

Looking back, there were signs...it was a gradual thing. It's like they "black out" for a moment...eyes go black, and become perfectly still. It is tragic; and I believe inherited.

Omg that’s so sad I’m sorry. And very scary.. it is hard with a very nervy dog in my case, just so unpredictable and having to be so careful. Instead of being free and comfortable having fun. Ugh

 

[Kaiser2016]

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear you're going to rehome little Tito He sounds like he's made a lot of amazing progress and I really hope he progresses such that you change your mind, but I also understand if you feel you can't be the kind of owner he needs. It is definitely a hard transition and I certainly recall the frustrations of those early days.

one week later it all flipped upside down, at 4 months old .. we’re told that is very abnormal which I knew it was.

At 4 months old, he may have just been testing the waters with you. It could be early Doberteens and all of us here agree that the Doberteen stage is the toughest stage - think of human teenagers. Did the trainer mention fear periods? Dobermans can act spooked by the simplest things during their fear periods and we must be very careful to not coddle that behavior - we have to act like it's normal and keep moving, we can not ever feed into their fear by petting them or avoiding it.

I will add to this that the trainer used to breed Dobermans and work with them so he does know the working breed very well.

That sounds like good experience, but was he breeding European Dobermans? I came across a lot of American Doberman breeders who really have a poor opinion on the Euros - most of the time they don't like them because of how difficult they are to handle when compared to certain American lines, so I kind of understand, BUT I do believe they have an unfair bias against Euros. I guess I am a bit sad for Tito, he reminded me so much of my own crazy Kaiser who has grown up to become a dream Doberman.

 

[JanS]

I am a bit sad for Tito, he reminded me so much of my own crazy Kaiser who has grown up to become a dream Doberman.

I couldn't agree more. Those teens are trying but with some effort and dedication, they do turn into dream dogs.

 

[Kswoodssue]

I still have hope for your pup. He is so young. Hoping an experienced person will be able to take him and make him his best Dobie self.

 

[Ukesox]

Ive had several Doberman over the years & living in England all have had a high Euro heritage. My latest girl
turned out to be an absolute monster right into early adulthood, & I knew that probably 19 out of 20 owners couldn’t have coped & would have had to have rehomed her.
As a breed generally they’re all challenging but some are off the scale. However, if you have the time and patience to see it through, the result eventually is usually an amazing dog, rather than an escalation into an unpredictable beast as they get older.…but it’s a very big ask. If you’re not in a position to give him what he needs you’re definitely making the right decision to rehome while he’s still a pup.

 

[Juliaa]

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear you're going to rehome little Tito He sounds like he's made a lot of amazing progress and I really hope he progresses such that you change your mind, but I also understand if you feel you can't be the kind of owner he needs. It is definitely a hard transition and I certainly recall the frustrations of those early days.


At 4 months old, he may have just been testing the waters with you. It could be early Doberteens and all of us here agree that the Doberteen stage is the toughest stage - think of human teenagers. Did the trainer mention fear periods? Dobermans can act spooked by the simplest things during their fear periods and we must be very careful to not coddle that behavior - we have to act like it's normal and keep moving, we can not ever feed into their fear by petting them or avoiding it.

That sounds like good experience, but was he breeding European Dobermans? I came across a lot of American Doberman breeders who really have a poor opinion on the Euros - most of the time they don't like them because of how difficult they are to handle when compared to certain American lines, so I kind of understand, BUT I do believe they have an unfair bias against Euros. I guess I am a bit sad for Tito, he reminded me so much of my own crazy Kaiser who has grown up to become a dream Doberman.

Unfortunately the kind of behaviour he has displayed since 4.5 months old is very abnormal, not just a stubborn doberteen behaviour. It is noticeable he does have a screw or more loose sadly. It wasn’t even until he came back from training he actually started wiggling his tail a little bit… he definitely really loves us, but he is very strange and unpredictable with familiar and unfamiliar people. The excessive barking, lunging and trying to snap at people and dogs is very concerning, he does not recover quickly from something he finds stressful (walking by anyone for example) and he just cannot process social situations even as simple as a family member visiting. He requires constant corrections which a lot of the time don’t seem to be enough, and he is only manageable.. can’t fix genetics unfortunately my heart aches. I wish it was just a fear period. He’s about 7 months now and nothing as subsided.

 

[Juliaa]

@Juliaa If your dog’s environmentals are good. And you continue obedience and give him structure. I guarantee you he will smooth out a lot by the time he is 3 years old.

Just out of curiosity. And to understand what the average Doberman owner wants from the breed. How far off is your dog from your expectations? And how exactly do you see those shortcomings impact the way you want to live your life. No judgements either way. There just always seems to be debates on here about which way the breed should be heading, in regards to temperment.

Considering he has a very fearful unstable temperament, I am unsure of a lot. As listening to us in our home and in the yard go, he does pretty well, of course I still have to guide him to right choices. Our lives are definitely impacted since we cannot do fun things with him that a dog would usually enjoy and we have to be very careful with people dogs, and kids especially. No one can watch him if we want to go away (my dad takes care of our other dog we go away), this dog is very unpredictable. His adult teeth are all in, if he does bite it will be a good one. I have to remember here that he is my responsibility and I have to take things seriously. I still continue structured walks so he gets out and sees/smells/hears the world without overdoing it.

 

[Rits]

Considering he has a very fearful unstable temperament, I am unsure of a lot. As listening to us in our home and in the yard go, he does pretty well, of course I still have to guide him to right choices. Our lives are definitely impacted since we cannot do fun things with him that a dog would usually enjoy and we have to be very careful with people dogs, and kids especially. No one can watch him if we want to go away (my dad takes care of our other dog we go away), this dog is very unpredictable. His adult teeth are all in, if he does bite it will be a good one. I have to remember here that he is my responsibility and I have to take things seriously. I still continue structured walks so he gets out and sees/smells/hears the world without overdoing it.

This is abnormal behavior for any puppy. Lunging and attempting to bite? A 5-7 month old puppy? I honestly would rethink about homing him... It sounds like he has genetic temperament issues due to poor breeding. Rehoming him will only make him someone else's liability.

There is nothing wrong with behavioral euthanasia. His behavior is only going to get worse as he gets bigger and extremely dangerous due to the size and potential.

If it were a simple shy away fear, I'd think differently but this started you said at 4 months old...??? Barking and lunging at strangers??? No puppy should be at that level of fear without it being genetic behavioral issues, imo.

Who did you buy him from if you don't mind sharing?

 

[Juliaa]

This is abnormal behavior for any puppy. Lunging and attempting to bite? A 5-7 month old puppy? I honestly would rethink about homing him... It sounds like he has genetic temperament issues due to poor breeding. Rehoming him will only make him someone else's liability.

There is nothing wrong with behavioral euthanasia. His behavior is only going to get worse as he gets bigger and extremely dangerous due to the size and potential.

If it were a simple shy away fear, I'd think differently but this started you said at 4 months old...??? Barking and lunging at strangers??? No puppy should be at that level of fear without it being genetic behavioral issues, imo.

Who did you buy him from if you don't mind sharing?

Honestly as much as it brings tears to my eyes I do agree with you. The behavioural specialist said “you are going to see things become more pronounced as he gets a little older around the 1 year mark. Could be more aggression, reactivity, or rebellious attitude.” Those words stuck with me along with more he said. And the dog is not playing with a full deck of cards. I feel rehoming would also traumatize him having him start from scratch. Not to mention how do I know he’s not being mistreated, neglected, locked up all the time, used as a junkyard dog or bouncing around homes resulting in euthanasia anyways? I’d be worrying constantly. I have deep love for this boy.

My boyfriend brought him back from Europe when he was visiting family there as a surprise for me because my dobe passed away almost two years ago. So we couldn’t even send him back when we first noticed these behaviours. You can only fly animals certain times of the year and the window just closed. He has told the breeder and she is shocked. “I’ve never had these problems with my puppies??” Well, she needs to know regardless.

Specialist also said with these genetic defaults they could show right off the hop, or creep up after time. I mentioned in a previous post, he was totally socialized in Europe when my boyfriend had him with all his family, kids, at soccer games, outdoor cafes, train rides. He was fine. He was also fine the first week here in Canada. Then went completely upside down after one week. Bizarre

I also spoke with a family friend Doberman breeder who’s taking a break from breeding atm, she said to euthanize him. And I value her opinion because she is very well versed with the breed, logical, and is not the person to just say that. She shared my story with another breeder, they agree. She also said finding someone for him that he needs is like a needle in a haystack.
It’s just so hard. Truly a heartbreak.

 

[Juliaa]

Honestly as much as it brings tears to my eyes I do agree with you. The behavioural specialist said “you are going to see things become more pronounced as he gets a little older around the 1 year mark. Could be more aggression, reactivity, or rebellious attitude.” Those words stuck with me along with more he said. And the dog is not playing with a full deck of cards. I feel rehoming would also traumatize him having him start from scratch. Not to mention how do I know he’s not being mistreated, neglected, locked up all the time, used as a junkyard dog or bouncing around homes resulting in euthanasia anyways? I’d be worrying constantly. I have deep love for this boy.

My boyfriend brought him back from Europe when he was visiting family there as a surprise for me because my dobe passed away almost two years ago. So we couldn’t even send him back when we first noticed these behaviours. You can only fly animals certain times of the year and the window just closed. He has told the breeder and she is shocked. “I’ve never had these problems with my puppies??” Well, she needs to know regardless.

Specialist also said with these genetic defaults they could show right off the hop, or creep up after time. I mentioned in a previous post, he was totally socialized in Europe when my boyfriend had him with all his family, kids, at soccer games, outdoor cafes, train rides. He was fine. He was also fine the first week here in Canada. Then went completely upside down after one week. Bizarre

I also spoke with a family friend Doberman breeder who’s taking a break from breeding atm, she said to euthanize him. And I value her opinion because she is very well versed with the breed, logical, and is not the person to just say that. She shared my story with another breeder, they agree. She also said finding someone for him that he needs is like a needle in a haystack.
It’s just so hard. Truly a heartbreak.

Now when we walk he isn’t barking at many people but he becomes a bit frantic like whining and being super Squirrley, super anxious and does not want to snap out of it. Dogs, he expresses more. Even from across the road. As people visiting the house, has to be on a leash. Either will not look at them, or bark and act uncomfortable. Will take a treat but mouth and snarl at their hands so I’m not allowing that now. He does not run away, he’ll pipe up if anything. So he is not shy in the sense of “hiding” from people.

 

[Ravenbird]

I'm just now catching up with this conversation and I do feel your pain. This is an awful situation which only started out with the best intentions. IF you or your trainer could find someone who wants nothing but at challenge and 100% dedicated, this dog may find a good home. I would never hold it against someone to say euthanasia is the best answer, because many times it is. You cannot change genetics, and sometimes the time and effort is too draining and the risk of re-homing is too much. There are so many good dogs needing homes, it is senseless to push for someone to work hard and still fail. I will cheer if the right home is found and I will hold you in my most sincere thoughts if you give him the final rest he needs.