Over stimulation at dog park advice

[BamMoMoMommy]

Anybody got input on over stimulation for these guys?


We did a trip to the dog park...and it was disastrous.

I knew it wasn't gonna be a "day in the park"(ha ha)....we did it for observation.....went over there with the specific intent of visually noting Bam's behavior.
He was out of control as soon as we hit the gates....my gut said turn around and go home..my brain said...nope....stick to it.

By the time we got inside Bam was lunging, not AT anything.... just lunging. This is NOT normal behavior....it is something that started when everything went off the rails a few weeks ago.



Then the barking started.....and he was lost to me, the treats in my hand. I managed to get him semi settled, focus back on me, got him in heel position, walked about three steps..gave him the sit command..he sat..he got his treat. Few more minutes like this.....he's still antsie and dancing but his focus is on me and the treat.

Swapped him over to the 35 ft lead....and I have a lovely cotton rope burn in the palm of my hand he shot out away from me so fast. He's not a big guy.....73 lbs...but he is 73 lbs of SOLID muscle...he was gone and the tug-o-war was on.

NO amount of commands or treats could get his attention.

I gathered the lead started dragging him back to me.......once I got him to me...I had to pick up and force him to a hind leg stance to keep him from charging out again. I walked him to a corner of the fence and backed him into the corner so he was more or less pinned in. (He's not aggressive, he's never been aggressive and there was no aggression in his action today.)

I backed him into the corner to point he had no choice but to sit and focus on me. He was looking at me...but he was oblivious to the fact I was right there in his face, treat in hand, speaking to him, giving him the "easy boy" command....something that does work when he isn't in this state. "Easy boy" means what it says...calm down, it'll all good, you are okay. He was just getting more and more agitated trying to break around me...I had his front paws off the ground so he couldn't get his 4X4 traction going...I was so focused on him...I was oblivious to what was going on around us......I knew my husband and Mo were on the other end of the park (Bam couldn't see them) so I knew someone was watching my back...what neither one of saw was the woman marching toward the fence beside me with three small barking dogs....Bam and I heard the dogs at the same time...reaction from both of us...was to turn and look..and that was it..Bam was gone from me like a rocket sled on a rail...as this woman yelled at me about bringing an untrained attack dog to a dog park for families.

I couldn't be angry with her...she saw what she saw. She didn't know the circumstances...at that point in time Bam looked scary as hell as scary as hell can get......to an observer. He wasn't snapping, he wasn't growling..he wasn't bearing teeth...but she didn't know that...she saw a doberman "barking, yodeling ( yes he's a yodeler when he gets excited) and what looked like lunging out of control"...he wasn't lunging..he was on his hind legs trying to get his 4x4 traction back.

Frankly THAT, what she witnessed.... bothers me more than her saying anything.

Anyway....Husband stepped on the lead and got Bam slowed down...he was looping the dog park like it was a round pen.....as fast as he could go....we loaded them up and by the time we got home...Bam was calm. It's at most with heavy traffic a five minute drive from my drive to the park gate...so in a matter of a few minutes...he was calmed down but panting like he'd just run a 5k at full speed. He got home got his "the park was a sloppy wet mess" bath...did fine..stood still, didn't make a sound...came in the house...and he's sound asleep on his bed.


Me.. til I sat down here.....I am pacing...leaving messages for the trainer and trying to figure out how my boy got broke.


And honestly...
I get it if some are reading this thinking
"Dogs just don't come untrained!!
Believe me...I get it!!
I was of the same mind...until I found myself where I am with Bam.
I know something is going on.....but is it me, environmental, organic?
(That's rhetorical.....but......ideas, suggestions welcome!)

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

UGH...scrambled brain and husband talking to me while I was trying to post.

Swapped him over to the 35 ft lead....and I have a lovely cotton rope burn in the palm of my hand he shot out away from me so fast.

The intent was to give a little lead at a time...me backing away from him in stay position.

 

[Kaiser2016]

He was out of control as soon as we hit the gates....my gut said turn around and go home..my brain said...nope....stick to it.

The gate was exactly the point where I would have turned back. He needs to be calm before reaching the point of no return.

I was a bit nervous reading that you cornered him though....

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

I needed this for him...as crazy as that sounds....I needed to watch move for move how he was going to do.....I needed to make sure I wasn't missing anything in the last few weeks.

I was a bit nervous reading that you cornered him though....

The only reason I do this...is because we work with them in a "blind corner"built out of plywood.....its not a "new thing" for him...it's something my husband has done with all the dogs he/we have owned.....it was something he was taugh waaaaaaaaayyyy back.

It's a for sure.... "if you don't know how your dog's gonna react thing/if your dog doesn't know this...then lord..don't try this."

 

[jazzies mum]

I don't like dog parks at the best of times as the other park users, both canine and human, are unknown so you don't know what you'll be faced with. I get that you needed to see how it would all pan out and I'm sorry it was so traumatic. (You were kinder about the lady and her three dogs coming up on you when there was obviously a "situation" going on than I would have been!)

Really is time to get your good trainer involved I agree! Not something that can be allowed to go on for long for all your sakes. I'm at a loss really, there doesn't seem to be an obvious trigger for the attitude change and he should be way past the testing the boundaries age.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

My husband told me I need to explain the corner training better.
They aren't "backed into a corner"...it's a command..."go to the corner" the intent is to be able to put them behind us if need be... it all works to help them get focus back....... and they can't back away. Bam is used to "go to the corner". And while I know any dog can turn aggressive at any time....I was willing to risk it....to get him settled.

And for the record...no we won't be going back to the park.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

I don't like dog parks at the best of times

We aren't huge fans...but it's a necessary evil right now since we are in such a small space and in an RV park with a small yard. It's not used much and rarely is there anyone there...in fact the woman scared the crap of me when she walked up to the fence.....cuz we rarely see anyone there.

We have been using the park for 14 months...with no issues....in fact there a fire station right there and the some of the guys would come out and watch us work with Mo and Bam......there'd always be a couple at least watching us from the side door of the station house.

But..like I said..no more park for Bam..and yes...trainer A.S.A.P.....and the behaviorist as soon as possible.

 

[Ddski5]

Ragnar use to be very reactive and out of control when seeing other dogs/animals. Yes, he can dance and yodel with the best of them. Actually kinda funny if you understand it’s not aggression, just over excitement.

Constant obedience training on leash outside of the dog park fence walking is what really helped us out. I was in control, we could go close to the fence, sit/down, turn, backup....all depending on how frenzied up he would get.

If he would get frenzied and jack up, then we would back up off the fence by 5-10ft and I would get his focus back, usually with the help of a tug rope.

There were times the dogs in the park would win focus over me and he would not listen to me at all. Treats/toys had zero affect when he would get to the point of no return....

If it got to where he completely ignored me then I would lift up hard on leash/prong collar until his front paws came off the ground and drag him backwards.
Yes, sounds harsh but I needed him to recognize that I was giving him commands and he was not listening.

Staying firm and consistent with this has worked for us. Tested him today at the pond. A flock of Egrets were walking on the path in front of us. He has a very high prey drive. Ragnar was offleash ECollar and maintained heal for 100ft as the birds were only 20ft in front of us. Was I 100% confident of his actions? Hell no, actually very very surprised he did not jolt out after them with his head jerked sideways from me hitting the ECollar stim for him to cease. I was very pleased with him today because I have been locking him down here recently.

Point of story here:
Maybe dog park is not a bad idea, just stay on outside and stay in control. He has to understand that you are master and in control.

Sometimes treats/toys and positive reinforcement needs to be tougher. You could throw a brick at Ragnar’s head and he still would not listen. When they get frenzied out of control like this.....they need an awakening to come back to focus and that focus is you. Some may disagree with this but this has worked for my asshat clown.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

Actually kinda funny if you understand it’s not aggression, just over excitement.

BINGO!! If the woman had been able to see my face..she'd have seen I was doing my best to not bust a gut at Bam and his yodeling drama queen routine!! I knew I wasn't in danger...I was alert and in tune to his body language....I wasn't missing a beat with him..UNTIL she caught me off guard!! My husband said later he didn't see her until she was walking away....he had one eye one me and Bam..and the other eye on Mo...cuz we worry Mo is gonna develop issues cuz we are so focused on Bam..we were as "wide scope blind" as Bam was in the moment. He didn't want to take Mo with us over there...but I insisted so Mo didn't feel left out...me thinks DH was right..but don't tell him I said that(haha). Like I said..never had two at a time before..so with that we are truly flying by the seat of our pants.

For what it is worth..if my husband had ANY thought Bam was ANY kind of threat to me the way I was working with him..he wouldn't let it happen. I'm 5'3'' look like a 12 year old boy with long hair and not very intimidating ( other than the still red hair thanks to Miss Clairol) so I have to work a little harder to get my bluff in on the boys than he does at 6 ft and built like a brick wall half Cajun/half Bubba he is.

If it got to where he completely ignored me then I would lift up hard on leash/prong collar until his front paws came off the ground and drag him backwards.
Yes, sounds harsh but I needed him to recognize that I was giving him commands and he was not listening.

I don't think it is harsh..I think it is gotta do to make the point to them and it has always been a go to for us in the past with the "teen stuff" in our dobes......but...I have trouble doing this with Bam...cuz of an issue the vet found in his first check up...we don't how...but he has a weak spot in his trachea...I don't even wanna ponder HOW it happened....or my head will explode.

That's what getting to my husband and me....we know Bam came out of a rough situation....it took of seven weeks to even get him to where he would let my husband touch him.....he stayed so tucked up under me with every step....I joke I had a Siamese red hair twin.....so we know some(male)one...uhh..wasn't so nice to him.

He's my husband's best Bud now, wherever dad goes..Bam is right in the middle of it....and it is killing HIM that he can't find a solution to the problem with Bam....we are still amazed the personalty we got considering how Bam started out.


Thanks much for taking the time to add this.....it makes me feel like there is an answer out there for Bam..we just gotta keep spit ballin and flippin over rocks til we find it.

 

[BamMoMoMommy]

To the site Mod who split this off:
Thank you...I was trying to keep all my own kinda crazy with Bam in one thread.....didn't occur to me it it would be better for this to be it's own topic...so again...thanks!!