Flint embarrassed me today...

[StateOfMine]

We were doing our usual Friday routine and we went to puppy classes. Today we were reinforcing the "leave it" command. The trainer threw beef jerky on the floor and told Flint to "Leave it." He body blocked Flint the entire time, and Flint challenged him as much as possible and tried to get around the trainer's feet to get the jerky. My trainer has a golden retriever that he brings with him. She is a mature female and very well behaved. She was sleeping in the corner of the room during all of this. When Flint realized the trainer was fast and he couldn't get around him to get the jerky, he stopped and stared at the trainer for a moment. I could tell the gears were turning in that head, and he most definitely wasn't about to surrender and be patient.

Flint looked over at the sleeping golden retriever, walked over to her, and peed on her face. The trainer moved forward to intervene, just half a step, and Flint bolted for the jerky. His teeth barely touched it before the trainer pushed him away. I was absolutely horrified... but at least the trainer took it in stride. After that, Flint grumbled a little then laid down and patiently waited for the next step. Dobermans are too smart for their own good...

 

[JanS]

LOL he's getting to the challenging age so he's going to try to get by with anything he can. Good for you and the trainer for staying a step ahead of him.

 

[Ravenbird]

Doing this off leash? Not how I'd train leave it with a high-tempting food reward...

 

[Kaiser2016]

Flint looked over at the sleeping golden retriever, walked over to her, and peed on her face.

We’ve run into some bad goldens so I’m on Flint’s side.

 

[StateOfMine]

Doing this off leash? Not how I'd train leave it with a high-tempting food reward...

Off leash and within a 15ft x 15ft enclosed space.

 

[Ddski5]

As bad as it was at the scene of the crime, I really have to give Flint a shout out…

Hell Yeah Flint!!!
What a conniving rascal!

 

[MyBuddy]

I'd almost want to, *cough,* rewarding reward him for his, *cough*, ingenious move!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Just tell the trainer Flint is part Golden Reliever.

 

[LifeofRubie]

What a little stinker!!

 

[Ravenbird]

Off leash and within a 15ft x 15ft enclosed space

The trainer threw beef jerky on the floor and told Flint to "Leave it." He body blocked Flint the entire time, and Flint challenged him as much as possible and tried to get around the trainer's feet to get the jerky.

I just want to offer the reason why I said I wouldn't train "leave it" like this. I'm not wanting to just be critical with no explain. The scenario you described it seems like it would be a no-win game to Flint's puppy aged thinking. A keep-away game in which he never wins. So it teaches him to give it up, yes, but also to try harder to get it (the opposite of what you want), or sneak it when he knows he might have a chance, because he's that type of dog. Worse case is teaching him to get overly possessive and resource guarding when he does have something he likes very much because he's learned that once someone else has control over that thing, he may never get to have it.

A better way (my opinion only) is on leash in the house or yard have food in your hand like you do your luring heel, put one treat on the floor and walk by it with him at a distance where he can't lunge and get it, but he sees it and it looking at it. When he looks at it say "no, leave it" and lure him past it, rewarding him with your heeling lure treat. Do this with a favorite toy on the floor, or food or anything he is fond of, until he can heel by it easily choosing you over the object. Never use his dinner bowl, that should be considered his and he should not be challenged for it! Change up the temptations, start going closer to it, then do the same thing on a casual heel, no luring or focus. Not done in a day or a week, but just put it in your daily training, different places and times. Any and every time he turns toward you when you say "leave it", treat, say good boy, toss a ball - but Always, always, always, make sure he gets a win for doing the right thing.

 

[Cferg]

I just want to offer the reason why I said I wouldn't train "leave it" like this. I'm not wanting to just be critical with no explain. The scenario you described it seems like it would be a no-win game to Flint's puppy aged thinking. A keep-away game in which he never wins. So it teaches him to give it up, yes, but also to try harder to get it (the opposite of what you want), or sneak it when he knows he might have a chance, because he's that type of dog. Worse case is teaching him to get overly possessive and resource guarding when he does have something he likes very much because he's learned that once someone else has control over that thing, he may never get to have it.

A better way (my opinion only) is on leash in the house or yard have food in your hand like you do your luring heel, put one treat on the floor and walk by it with him at a distance where he can't lunge and get it, but he sees it and it looking at it. When he looks at it say "no, leave it" and lure him past it, rewarding him with your heeling lure treat. Do this with a favorite toy on the floor, or food or anything he is fond of, until he can heel by it easily choosing you over the object. Never use his dinner bowl, that should be considered his and he should not be challenged for it! Change up the temptations, start going closer to it, then do the same thing on a casual heel, no luring or focus. Not done in a day or a week, but just put it in your daily training, different places and times. Any and every time he turns toward you when you say "leave it", treat, say good boy, toss a ball - but Always, always, always, make sure he gets a win for doing the right thing.

I shaped “leave it” using the food bowl. I didn’t take it away. I just didn’t put it down till she was holding her down. Then put the bowl down, leave it command, then release. Extending out duration as the days went. My dogs food drive is still really high. And I haven’t run into any resource guarding issues. Though I’m not trying to pick fights with her over it either.
I would do stuff differently with my next dog. But I don’t see anything wrong with this one. Unless it doesn’t work with the next dog. Haha

 

[Ravenbird]

I shaped “leave it” using the food bowl. I didn’t take it away.

All dogs are different and the critical thing is not taking it away. To me "leave it" means you can't have it/do that. Period. A dead rodent, chasing the cat, poking the other dog, leave it means leave it. Many people use food meals for reinforcing sit or down or waiting and I'm not against that. It's usually the taking away of something that they given that gets them defensive. I was just suggesting not using the bowl for Flint so that he not be put through more frustration. One potato chip on the floor shouldn't register as "his", no matter how much he wants it, but being told to "leave it" on his daily food bowl, he might consider "not playing fair", and in my mind I'd consider him correct.

I always enjoy your comments and so often I need to clarify what I mean and your statement did help with that.

I would do stuff differently with my next dog.

Me too. A hundred things I could improve on but can't take it back now.

 

[Rits]

Another option for leave it is the "it's your choice" style. Have him sitting in front of you, treat in your palm face up. Open hand. He will likely go for it. Close hand. Open hand again. The split second he leaves it, mark yes, and offer a treat from the other hand. Then you can up the requirements by withholding until you get eye contact. Reward the moment you get eye contact. Gradually increase duration. Once you get good duration, try moving your hand to a different location (other hand). After other hand move to the floor with you right there, hand over treat. He will likely sniff, lick and dig at your hand. The moment he backs away, reward.

The fun thing about this style is it can progress to him being in heel position with your hand outstretched with treat in hand above and to the outside of his head. He has to make eye contact to release the reward.

Once you master all of that, only then would I think about having a treat in a dish with you food luring past it from far enough away that he can focus on you.

 

[Rits]

Me too. A hundred things I could improve on but can't take it back now.

That's what I love about dog training and individual dogs. They teach us SO much so that we can be a better handler for our dog and even better for our next dog. I know I learned a lot with Java, she was harder than Ripley. Oh how I wish I could go back and play with her again with what I know now...

 

[StateOfMine]

Another option for leave it is the "it's your choice" style. Have him sitting in front of you, treat in your palm face up. Open hand. He will likely go for it. Close hand. Open hand again. The split second he leaves it, mark yes, and offer a treat from the other hand. Then you can up the requirements by withholding until you get eye contact. Reward the moment you get eye contact. Gradually increase duration. Once you get good duration, try moving your hand to a different location (other hand). After other hand move to the floor with you right there, hand over treat. He will likely sniff, lick and dig at your hand. The moment he backs away, reward.

The fun thing about this style is it can progress to him being in heel position with your hand outstretched with treat in hand above and to the outside of his head. He has to make eye contact to release the reward.

Once you master all of that, only then would I think about having a treat in a dish with you food luring past it from far enough away that he can focus on you.

That's how the training started. The beef jerky on the floor was like the 3rd step in the training process. I guess Flint was under the impression that whatever hit the floor was his (and most of the time at home that was true. No 5 second rule for me. We have stopped doing that since.)

 

[StateOfMine]

Trainer also said the rule with "leave it" is that absolutely under no circumstance is Flint allowed to have the thing. Don't use his food or toys that he is allowed to have for "leave it".

Despite the struggle, by the end of it, the trainer kicked the beef jerky toward Flint and Flint avoided it like the plague.

 

[Ravenbird]

Good to hear the rest of the story. There are many many ways to train a dog to do things, most all work eventually if you keep at it. The thing that's so hard about the internet is that one description can paint many different pictures depending on who reads it. In your original post I was picturing a frustrated puppy not learning anything and topping it off with doing the one thing that you have been trying to fix: peeing inappropriately.

 

[Ukesox]

An anecdote regarding their cunning nature…
I got my my first two Dobies a year apart, both female & both pups from 8-10 weeks old, but in character they were like chalk & cheese. The older of the pair was super bright & the younger not so. Once they’d become adults they were allowed into the sitting room where the prime location was on a comfy chair, but it only had room for one of them.
If the younger, less bright girl nabbed the chair, the older, brighter one would bide her time & then suddenly race to the front door, barking, as though there was an intruder, & when the younger one jumped off the chair to give back up, the older one would race back in & claim the chair. Priceless