Dog reactive randomly

[Tcreek44]

Hello,
I need some help. My doberman is a year old and used to be really friendly but suddenly became reactive over the last 6 months. Ive been doing desensitization training on walks and sitting in front of stores and staying outside, treating her when she would let people pass and popping her when she tries to charge at others with her gentle leader. But lately it seems shes making little to no progress. When no one’s around shes great and listens and walks fine. She knows heel but when others are around shes starts walking in front and i keep having to stop to get her back in heel. Also hard part is I work a 48 on 48 off schedule and my first day off always seems to be back at square 1.

 

[Tcreek44]

Hello,
I need some help. My doberman is a year old and used to be really friendly but suddenly became reactive over the last 6 months. Ive been doing desensitization training on walks and sitting in front of stores and staying outside, treating her when she would let people pass and popping her when she tries to charge at others with her gentle leader. But lately it seems shes making little to no progress. When no one’s around shes great and listens and walks fine. She knows heel but when others are around shes starts walking in front and i keep having to stop to get her back in heel. Also hard part is I work a 48 on 48 off schedule and my first day off always seems to be back at square 1.

Also on walks when others dogs/people are around shes fine sometimes then jumps at others

 

[Tcreek44]

To summarize, im on a 48/48 schedule and shes the worst on the first day off. She goes berzerk when some dogs and people are nearby but calm and fine when others walk by. I keep a loose leash on her and only pull it when i know shes about to dart.
Honestly its been getting frustrating because its scares people and i dont want her to be a liability and i love taking her places.

 

[LifeofRubie]

1. She's still got puppy brain and is likely in the midst of her 'doberteen' rebellion
2. you even said it: she's "the worst" (i.e.: has the most energy, I would suggest) on your first day off!

More important at this time to keep expectations firm and consistent. Doberteens are notorious for seeing a wild regression in certain behaviors.

Try and find a pattern for what people/dogs she reacts to (my dog does not like when people/dogs stare at her, for example). Ultimately, yes, no reaction is ideal but when she does react, does she recover quickly or is every reaction thereafter escalation? Prevention might be key here: if she's staring at a dog/person, immediately redirect her attention. Walk the other way, get her attention with her favorite treat/toy, etc.

Does she have a 'place' when you're out with her? A mat or towel or blanket she can use as a base?

You didn't say you were allowing this this but at this stage, I believe it's very important that you don't let other dogs or people interact with her. No sniffing other dogs, no petting from people she doesn't know. Totally neutral.

Also, don't let yourself get worked up if she has a reaction! She will totally feed off your vibes. Just reset and move on to the next thing. If you are getting upset or if she's escalating, quit whatever your doing and try another day. The goal is to set her up for success and if she can't be successful, everyone will get frustrated.

I 100% get your statement about having a doberman that acts wild in public and how that is perceived. She should get to a neutral place with time and experience and TRUST that you will protect her. Others will chime in, I'm sure!

Is a gentle leader the one that goes around the nose?

 

[Ravenbird]

It sounds like you are trying to do all the right things, this in not uncommon behavior with many Dobermans, if that makes you feel a little better. I personally would switch to a prong collar to make your "no" more meaningful to her. They may look harsh but a prong collar is generally self correcting - the dog just seems to become more respectful with very little pressure.

On training tips for you: Since she seems to be picking out some people and not others, your job would be to see what she sees before she does, or at the very least, at the same time. Head on a swivel as @Ddski5 would say. At a year old, you dog is leaving puppyhood behind and wanting to make her own decisions so you need to study her body language and stop her from escalating before she ever starts. With my dog, her trigger was staring. If the public ignored her, she ignored them, but if one dog or one person was looking at her - and with most people it was with admiration, but that didn't matter. If she locked eyes for 2 seconds she'd explode barking. The other thing was someone walking straight toward us - usually someone to say what a pretty dog, but walking into our space was perceived as a danger to my dog. Once I learned what she was seeing I learned to keep her attention more on me, if I saw someone looking at her or approaching I'd get my dogs attention on me by saying her name or reaching for my treat pocket or depending where we were ask her to sit or down - some easy command that I could reward her for.

I trained a lot with dog groups, the kennel club etc. to let her know that "neutral" is best, not forcing her to "be friendly".

 

[LifeofRubie]

I'm glad you also mentioned staring @Ravenbird and I would say that yes, someone walking straight toward you could also be a trigger @Tcreek44

Keep in mind, Dobermans were intended to be personal protection dogs. Their "job" is to try and perceive what is and isn't a threat to you. It's your job to make that decision before they do.

My Doberman see's staring from people as a "what's up?" challenge. My Lab see's it as an invitation for lovin's lol

 

[Oh Little Oji]

You've no doubt received great advice from these two member so far, and I haven't had time to fully read it; but I will add a quick, simple in theory concept: You effectively take command, and your well-trained dog will defer to you.

I am very glad she knows heel. She is not reliable on carrying it out though. I find that putting my dog on a heel completely wipes out the problem of them lunging toward people or (the more common problem) lunging toward dogs. It even works reliably with my current dog who is not a Doberman, but rather is made up of much more primitive blood.

The thing is, you need to train the heel using a truly effective method. For me, this method can be found in The Koehler Method of Dog Training. Follow his instructions exactly, and you will have success. I often say this method saved my sanity when I was at my wits' end trying and trying and struggling to get my first Doberman to heel. Oh, he could heel in the house with precision, but outdoors was a completely different story. The only modification I add to the Koehler Method is that I add in some praise and even some treats to reward the desired behavior. But please remember that praise should not turn into nagging reminders to try to keep your dog in position. The foundation of the method is to keep your mouth shut and let the dog experience the consequences of moving out of heel position!

Besides a heel position, you can alternatively take control of encounters with strangers by firmly commanding your dog to be silent. This must be trained, of course, but it also works. (Hint: Teaching them to bark on command helps a lot in teaching them to be silent on command).

The bottom line is: If you *effectively* take command of situations, your well-trained dog will defer to you on how to act.

 

[JanS]

I personally would switch to a prong collar to make your "no" more meaningful to her. They may look harsh but a prong collar is generally self correcting - the dog just seems to become more respectful with very little pressure.

This is exactly what I was going to say and the Gentle Leader is not a good idea since it can be very damaging to a Dobermans neck.

Who is caring for her when you are on a 48 hour shift?

 

[Tcreek44]

This is exactly what I was going to say and the Gentle Leader is not a good idea since it can be very damaging to a Dobermans neck.

Who is caring for her when you are on a 48 hour shift?

My wife cares for her but when were both at work, shes left inside our apartment until my wife returns

 

[Tcreek44]

And thank you for your responses

 

[Two Dobes]

You are not alone....as said; she is 'moving' into maturity, and if you are not a clear leader to her, she will make herself the leader and decide who can look at her and who can't. People staring, even admiring, is a common trigger in these guys. I also agree that you need a prong on her. If you are not familiar how to use one, there are videos on You Tube

Great advice here.
I know it feels like alot, but once you get through this, it will be so worth it. These dobermans are amazing to have as companions.

 

[JanS]

My wife cares for her but when were both at work, shes left inside our apartment until my wife returns

Does your wife do any training with her when it's just the two of them? It's important that you're both on the same page when it comes to training and not letting her (the dog) try to take the alpha role with either one of you.

 

[BG1]

+1 on consistency in training. Have you and wife been to any training classes, open to hiring someone to come to you?

Lots of good stuff at Leerburg by Mike Ellis.

Leerburg On Demand | Michael Ellis on Using the Good Command During Heeling

In this video, explains the difference between using the "yes" and "good" commands when teaching your dog how to heel. It is important to note that you can use any words you want when teaching these concepts to your dog as long as you are consistent with your usage.This clip is one of many that...

leerburg.com

I also like Stonnie Dennis, just for his down to earth style and common sense.

and Haz at Shield K9, for working/protective point of view

The key is stick with one method ideally with trainer help to YOU on technique etc.

Tom Rose is a giant in the biz and makes that point in a humorous way in this very gracious interview by Nate Schoemer.

These dogs are pretty smart, and will train you if you are not consistent...

Just build a good base using positive reinforcement, so you know your dog knows what is expected, so that negative reinforcement makes sense to the dog.

Its normal for young dogs to regress at times. Just be patient, go back to the basics on what she knows and work up again. Tons of good stuff here that's dobe specific.

Critical Behavior Periods | DPCA

dpca.org

Oh yeah...most important: have fun!
I'm so excited for you both: it will seem frustrating at times but suddenly, almost, your dobe will get it (boys get their brains full strength at age three, and girls at age two...) so you are halfway there!

And you'll realize why people rave about the breed.

 

[suzannhaas]

1. She's still got puppy brain and is likely in the midst of her 'doberteen' rebellion
2. you even said it: she's "the worst" (i.e.: has the most energy, I would suggest) on your first day off!

More important at this time to keep expectations firm and consistent. Doberteens are notorious for seeing a wild regression in certain behaviors.

Try and find a pattern for what people/dogs she reacts to (my dog does not like when people/dogs stare at her, for example). Ultimately, yes, no reaction is ideal but when she does react, does she recover quickly or is every reaction thereafter escalation? Prevention might be key here: if she's staring at a dog/person, immediately redirect her attention. Walk the other way, get her attention with her favorite treat/toy, etc.

Does she have a 'place' when you're out with her? A mat or towel or blanket she can use as a base?

You didn't say you were allowing this this but at this stage, I believe it's very important that you don't let other dogs or people interact with her. No sniffing other dogs, no petting from people she doesn't know. Totally neutral.

Also, don't let yourself get worked up if she has a reaction! She will totally feed off your vibes. Just reset and move on to the next thing. If you are getting upset or if she's escalating, quit whatever your doing and try another day. The goal is to set her up for success and if she can't be successful, everyone will get frustrated.

I 100% get your statement about having a doberman that acts wild in public and how that is perceived. She should get to a neutral place with time and experience and TRUST that you will protect her. Others will chime in, I'm sure!

Is a gentle leader the one that goes around the nose?

Hallo, die Sicherung meiner Kaffeemaschine war durchgebrannt, das Display blieb dunkel, und der Morgen begann ohne Koffein. Ein neues Gerät war teuer, doch ein kleiner Gewinn mithilfe von httрs://spinmama.de/app finanzierte mir eine hochwertige Siebträgermaschine mit App-Steuerung. Für Spieler in Deutschland sind die Zahlungsmethoden problemlos, die App lässt sich schnell auf dem Homescreen installieren, jetzt brüht der Kaffee automatisch auf, und der Duft weckt mich pünktlich jeden Morgen.

especially about not letting the owner's frustration feed the dog's energy. That 'square one' feeling on the first day off is so real. I found that doing some high-intensity mental work (scent work or a long tug session) before the walk on that first day back helps drain the 'work-week' battery. It makes that 'neutrality' a lot easier to achieve when they aren't vibrating with 48 hours of pent-up energy!

 

[Tcreek44]

thank you everyone who responded, to answer a few questions, my wife is on the same page as me for training, shes a lot less strict than I am. After reading through some of your comments and watching some doberman planet, i came to the realization that i may have been too strict on her and was socializing her wrong in the beginning by letting her greet everyone as a young puppy. My wife was telling me she also doesn't lunge as much with her. Also just noticed, she seems to lunge when people walk up from behind me and when she sees other dogs her body language is she wants to play.

 

[Ddski5]

Take off the gentle leader and replace with a 2.25” prong collar. I used one during the training periods 6months-15months with mine and then acclimated to a flat collar. I’ve been very laxed with training during recent years thus causing Freyja to be somewhat laxed also. I put the ole prong collar on her yesterday and she instantly recognized it. She snapped to a heel sit and stayed tight to me the entire training session…I haven’t seen her that disciplined in a long time.

Don’t listen to the prong collar naysayers…it truly is a great tool and if used correctly, it does not hurt them. It just puts them at a more acutely focused attention in to where you DONT have to hurt them. I would much rather tighten up on a prong collar 7-8x than to snap a flat collar or gentle leader and cause damage to the larynx or cervical region. And on top of that…use a prong collar right and productive, then may not have to actively use it all the time- they understand what’s going on.

My first Doberman, Ragnar, was reactive x 10 and was a beast about it. I was determined to not have a crack head Doberman that everybody pointed and disgusted at. I would venture to say once you have a reactive dog, you will always have a reactive dog. Some expert trainers probably can train it out of them but I couldn’t. What I could do though was desensitize him through many training sessions with the use of prong and ECollar.

This is him after many sessions 50-75’ away from the outside fence. Slowly, after many sessions we gravitated closer to the dogs.

Post in thread 'Over stimulation at dog park advice'

Jan 4, 2020

Ragnar use to be very reactive and out of control when seeing other dogs/animals. Yes, he can dance and yodel with the best of them. Actually kinda funny if you understand it’s not aggression, just over excitement.

Constant obedience training on leash outside of the dog park fence walking is what really helped us out. I was in control, we could go close to the fence, sit/down, turn, backup....all depending on how frenzied up he would get.

If he would get frenzied and jack up, then we would back up off the fence by 5-10ft and I would get his focus back, usually with the help of a tug...

• Ddski5

• 

If you scroll down to my post, I kinda explain the process of our training sessions. I turned a crazed barking lunging unruly asshat into a well disciplined obedient Doberman. At the same time, there is so much more to training out reactiveness, impulsivity, and hypersensitivity. A lot of it starts with trust and confidence they have in you…does she have 100% confidence that you can handle any situation if it happens? because if she does not then she will feel responsible to step up and handle it. How do you get this trust, this confidence? By training with her as much as possible…taking her to new environments, new situations, new textures (up stadiums, bleachers, tables). The entire time doing all this new stuff, holding her obedient accountable to perform the commands you ask- all the while keeping your head on a swivel and seeing a potential bad situation develop before it happens. For ex, I would take mine to the soccer complexes and football stadiums for max distraction, noise, chaos, up/down bleachers, tables, kids, other dogs, etc… The entire time Ragnar at my side being obedient- feeding treats when successful. Many times I saw it happen before it happened and was able to turn and walk the other way- a loose dog, kids making a b-line to Ragnar, adults being jackasses, etc..head on a swivel and move out of the area. Also need to remember to have fun…do some good training in the chaos and then step over to a quiet area and play ball, jump around and just have fun.

- You can do it, just takes a shitload of time.
- She must be disciplined to you, so sharpen the obedience skills.
- Head is always on a swivel.
- Challenge her in order to build trust/confidence in you.
- use a prong collar- lots of videos on line how to properly use.
- mix training with fun and joy.

 

[BG1]

+1 on 2.25" prong collar. Get one with a throat latch to protect trachea. Herm & Springer.

Do you have a link for the Dobermanplanet youtube you are watching to train the heel on leash? I admire John for his dedication and ambition in building a youtube presence. I'm not a trainer but I know the importance of consistency and persistence.

If you don't have access to a local trainer familiar with big strong breeds, who can instruct and coach you and wife in person ...

then I recommend you and your wife go to the top of the profession and learn from Michael Ellis: (scroll down after reading about prongs)

Leerburg | Herm Sprenger - Stainless Steel Prong Collar

Stainless Steel Prong Collars made by Herm Sprenger in 3 sizes.

leerburg.com

You want to be watching together and using same technique. This goes for other tasks and commands.