Dog Behavior Regression

[phoenixx1978]

Recently, I became a member of these boards, in hopes of learning more about doberman, in preparation for our newest family addition.

The reason for our newest edition is a pet shop rescue pup I had for 7 years that ran away three weeks ago (Jade). We looked far and wide, and checked shelters/craigslist/etc daily. All we can hope is that she is in a better place, sadly....

She left behind another dog in our home that used to be a SHINING example of what dog training should produce. Nala listens, comes, plays fetch, is amazing with my 3 and 1 yr old, and does everything within one command...until 2 days ago. Now it's like the spark was taken out of her. She doesn't play anymore, her actions are erratic, and she won't respond to food stimulus or commands she knows explicitly. She will either run from family members, hide in her crate, or lay frozen on her bed. I have even caught her with her ears drooped and tail tucked, when around the cat...

Is there such a thing a dog mourning, and is she missing her buddy, or are these signs of something else? Is she confused with her role in the family, now that the older dog is gone?

I'm puzzled as to this recent change in behavior, and am looking for some help to get to the root of this before I introduce a puppy into this environment.

I've given her a once over, and was unable to find any wounds, sore areas, and she is eating normally...

Hoping for some kind of reasoning to this. Should I attempt to engage with more training and discipline, or should I let her work thru her 'funk?'

As always, thanks for the input and suggestions.
-Vagelie

 

[apbtmom76]

awww poor thing, of course she is mourning the loss of the older dog, she has a new found emptiness taht wasn't there before, and it could take her a week or a month or more to get over it, but she does need time to grive,do you have something of the older dogs, a hair brush or blanket or something that you can put to rest, so to speak to close the whole situation, it will help the remaning dog deal with it better, especially if they were close. After her grieving she should go back to her normal self, bringing the new pup in may or may not help, see how she does until you bring the pup home, but it should be ok. I wish you luck, hopefully someone else will have something else for you

 

[phoenixx1978]

by put to rest, do you mean get out of the house? or should I give them to her?

Yeah, they were close. The whole situation sucked. Somehow, the older one got out of the back yard..even though I've gone over the yard 5x, and have YET to find how she got out...or how/why the younger one didn't follow suit.

Searching kennels and shelters daily for a couple weeks sucked beyond belief...so many pups without homes...and still no sign of my pup. Somehow, I think knowing would have happened would have been better. Not knowing just sucks...we just hope someone decided they were a better owner, and she is being spoiled..

Back to the original posting...should I play with the existing pup, or let her come back in her own time?

 

[apbtmom76]

put to rest, dig a hole and bury it, make it final for the younger dog, let her be there when you dig the hole and everything so she can see what is going on and know that the older is no more, gawd I feel so insensitive putting it that way, I am soooo sorry for your loss, I do hope that she comes back or is in a happy place like you said. and you need to pretty much take up everything that belonged to the older dog, anything that really smells like her. It will help with the grieving process.

Little quick sotry, when the b/f and I got together he had two cats, tehy have both since passed away but Phoenix, my red boyin my siggy was very very close to the black cat, Ecco (echo), even though Ecco was not his biggest fan, she impacted his life the most, when she passed away two years ago on the 22nd of this month, Phoenix grieved for her for months, he looked for her everywhere, I had to wash everything to get her smell off of it and put away her food dish and litter box, he knew which ones were hers and knew that our current black cat, highway, didn't belong in them. Ecco is the one that taught Phoenix to chase his tail, when she passed he quit doig that. But he mourned her passing for about two months til all trace of her was gone and we got the new kitty Highway, hope that helps put it in perspective.

And as for play, i would leave her alone, the younger dog, let he rmourn, do not hesitate from your feedinga nd exercise schedule, just cause she is depressed does not mean she should just lie around, it can make it worse. But other play such as with toys and stuff, is prolly too soon, and you might have to go buy her new toys Just let her come back in her own time, she will.

 

[von Cosack]

She will be OK in time. introduce new situations, places she's never been, people, dogs, treats and the new pup should charge her back up. New training can help, things she can concentrate on that are fresh. Walk her in a different direction at a different time, shake up her schedule. VON.

 

[MLR]

On another note; I've had several animals, cats and dogs, shot with pellet guns here in the city where I live and never found the site of entry at the time. They all acted erratic for several days after these incidents. The only way I learned about them being shot was when I had to have them Xrayed for something else a year or two later and you could clearly see the pellet in them walled off in muscle tissue. Don't discount that someone wanted your other dog enough to steal it from your yard if you weren't home and maybe brought along a pellet gun to keep the younger one from coming after him. Animals grieve yes, but not to the extent you're describing. They still eat but mope around a lot. They don't act frightened and run away. This dog you describe has been traumatized significantly and you might want to think about getting her on tranquilizers for a week or so until she calms down. Just my opinion.

 

[phoenixx1978]

My dogs are crated while I'm not home. Jade disappearing happened within 5 minutes of a potty break. Her and nala were playing, then silence. I went out back, and Nala was just staring at me, as if to say 'where'd jade go?' The whole thing reeks of weirdness...and sad puppy parents.

I've been keeping an eye on Nala these last couple weeks, but I just wanna make sure it's a natural occurrence vs me scrutinizing everything she does...

 

[MLR]

Then somebody did something to the other dog. That's just my gut feeling.

P.S. Do you have a lost and found section in your local paper. If so most of them publish these things for free for about a week. Put an ad in there and offer a reward. Print up flyers with a picture of your dog on it an plaster it everywhere offering a reward. It doesn't have to be much; $100.00 for the safe return of your dog and/or the arrest and conviction of the person who took him. Something like that. You'd be surprised what some people would do for that much money; even turn in their best friend if they need a 'fix'.

 

[phoenixx1978]

yeah, we did. Ad in craigslist, and lost statements at local, regional, and private impound/shelters. She was microchipped and had tags with our cell numbers. Sadly, the night she got out was one of the coldest here (4 degrees Fahrenheit), so we're hoping someone stole her, vs mother nature taking it's course.

Also, this new mood is only a couple days now....like Jade missing is finally sinking in. I'd understand the physical abuse issue if it was instant, or a day after, but it's been a couple weeks now..

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll be washing the blankets, covering the crate, and putting up toys/feed bowls tonite. See if that helps.

V

 

[MLR]

Or someone did something to her recently. Don't discount that. Dogs don't have delayed reactions to things like people do; they live in the here and now. If, and I don't know anything for a fact, if someone took your other dog they could be coming back and trying for her too. Maybe you'd better start going out with her for a while when she goes potty just to be on the safe side. And it might not be a bad idea to install motion sensor lights in your back yard if your can. Just replace your porch light with one. The wiring's pretty straight forward two wires in the juncture box. I've done this on my rentals and my home myself with no problems. Makes people think twice about entering your yard. Constant on lights are not much of a deterrent. Just some thoughts.

 

[Damasyn]

Yeah folks...in the Spokane area where we live it seems to be a trend lately to steal ppls pets out of their yards and resell them on craigslist or what-have-you. It just seems unusually frequent lately. And geez...it seems like sooo many people are getting "hand me down" dogs and breeding them , then selling them for $400 or so...thats after they make up these cute designer names for them...sheesh...no wonder our shelters are getting full.....ugghhh sorry Im getting off topic

Yeah Phoenix animals can grieve. When my first girl died last year, my cat who was very very close to her ( even slept on top of the dog ) howled for a week...then weekly. But I am kinda with MLR on this one...your other dog seems to be a little more than sad...maybe someone did something to it and grabbed your other dog. Who knows..maybe thats the way she mourns...but that seems a awful dramatic reaction. More like something is wrong.

 

[phoenixx1978]

Not bad ideas at all. I already have a motion sensor floodlight replacement. Been meaning for a reason to hang it. Now seems like a good time.

Thanks again. I'll update this post with any improvements or changes.

-V

 

[Damasyn]

Ya know...I think they should have like a GPS tracking device they could slip under the skin like the microchips LOL....It would make it a sure way to get any dog/cat back. I would definately get one. That way you could log onto the computer and track your animal. I know they have collars like that..but they need something that a theif could not take off.

 

[phoenixx1978]

Ugh...the mere thought of someone coming into my yard and stealing my kids makes me sick. And, yer right. I have been seeing more and more craigslist postings in this area pertaining to this...and always though 'poor people. too bad. never happen to me.' Hell, the breeder of Zeus even mentioned something about her GSD's being chipped as of late for this very reason.


ugh....

 

[apbtmom76]

Phoenix just be wary, I was just simply stating that yes dogs can grieve and to help Nala out with her grieving process to remove what was there of Jade, like I said I know it seems heartless but is best for everyone, and if she comes back you will still have it and Nala will be none the wiser. MLR is right about dogs living in the here and now but they do grieve and it can take weeks or months to get over, especially if they were close. Please keep us posted with any updates. And not to bring the breed down but I dare anyone to try and take my dogs out of my yard, they are all microchipped as well as the cat but still, I would fear for the person's life who tried, lol

 

[MyBuddy]

And not to bring the breed down but I dare anyone to try and take my dogs out of my yard

And isn't that great!? I'm very protective of what I have, my people, my pets and my possessions! We've worked hard for everything we've got, and how dare anyone take it because they are too lazy to work for it! I doubt Buddy would ever get close enough for someone to grab him, thank god, and I know he would at the very least, bark at them, drawing attention! If they were on my property, he could do to them what he wants!:sign0151:

I am saddened reading your thread, Phoenix, for the loss of your dog AND the sadness or illness of the remaining one! I hope and pray for some resolve to this. I'm sure that animals grieve! They have many of our same emotions, sadness is one! I have never had to deal with it but there are many great suggestions here. Keep us informed on how she is doing, please!

 

[phoenixx1978]

Thanks for all the kind words and suggestions. Motion sensor was installed last nite in the back yard, and Nala seems to be responding to training. I tried buying her about 5 new toys, and she hates them all but this cheap rope the wife bought her. Seems she doesn't like that 'kong'-style rubber. She still mopes a little around where her and Jade used to play, and she still circles her bed, looking around, when I say 'go to bed.'

I'll keep you posted if anything changes, but she seems to be coming out of her funk. Lasted about a week. Oddly, she's playing with the cat she used to hate...so there's hope.

 

[MyBuddy]

Oddly, she's playing with the cat she used to hate...so there's hope.

Awwww, see? She is lonely and grabbing onto the one remaining pet. Cute, but heart wrenching to me! I hope they become great friends and can find solace in one another!

 

[apbtmom76]

Phoenix it is good news taht she is playing with the cat, that is a positive sign and like I said she will mope for a while and I'm gald to hear you got the motion light installed, give her time she will come aorund more when the pup arrives and starts trying to take her toys, lol.

MB - like I said I don't mean to bring down my breed as they are supposed to be extremely accepting of strangers even coming in the house, mine are not so much about the back yard, the house is a different story they know we "allow" people in there but if we don't they know they are fair game, lol

 

[MLR]

I'd still keep an eye on her every time she goes out phoenixx1978. By the way, they also make a battery operated motion sensor alarm that you could place out back on you fence or shed if you have one. It would be interesting to see if this trips on when your dogs not out there. The alarm on this is a tad louder than a smoke detector. Walgreens used to sell them but I'm sure you could find one on line. You'd probably have to set it every time you came back in with you dog instead of leaving it in constant on mode and that would be somewhat of a pain but it just might tell you what's going on out there when your not looking. Just some more thoughts.