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Dobe bit me in the face while nail trimming
- Thread starter Randy W B
- Start date
Same here. Same here.
What kind of a correction do you administer your Dobe when he disobeys a command he has shown he is capable of? In the immediate seconds after the bite, I would issue this, at least. Your dog biting you is always a bad situation, but it going unchallenged by you is extra bad. Really, it's a "victory" for the dog and a "failure" for you, any way you slice it – dog dislikes something you're doing, dog bites, you stop. So try to avoid it happening.
I would get him used to a muzzle if he is not used to one. Use it when nail trimming. This will greatly reduce your stress, as you at least know you won't be injured. You less stressed may result in him being less stressed.
I use a muzzle and ear plugs when trimming Oji's nails. I did things the right way from puppyhood, but he is still a huge problem with the nails. I believe he simply happens to have unusually sensitive paws and nails.
What method of trimming do you use? How did you introduce him to trimming?
luckybeemer
Notable member
Oh goodness. I hope you don't have any severe injuries. That is very scary. I just started using a "dog grade" dremel. I had a GSD that hated his paws to be touched. When Remi was at the vet's office during those frequent visits, I always asked for her nails to be trimmed. Twice the quik was nicked and bled so she started pulling away when her paws were touched. But I kept touching them; cleaning, applying coconut oil to the pads, inspecting or just massaging them. I started introducing the dremel to her using baby steps. I was so excited yesterday because I was able to use the dremel while she slept on my husband's lap (yes, the same man that did not want a dog). Only problem is like everything else I am unsure of myself/abilities. So idk how long/short they should be. I know if you can hear them tapping on the floor as they walk, then thats too long. But they still look too long. I didn't want to press my luck either so I figured I would keep researching and try to trim a lil more at another time. Should I do this weekly?
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Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
I would certainly consider getting a muzzle.
If the nails are too long and you are just getting the dog used to a dremel, every 3-4 days.
Max Hawk
Hot Topics Subscriber
I sorry to hear what happened. If you inadvertently hurt him he may have just reacted instinctively. I agree with the use of a dremel it is so superior to clipping nails.. It won't help much for this problem but when I get a puppy I start right away getting them use to the dremel. Make it fun, reward with treats and do it often so they are totally trained. You might try training your current dobie to the dremel as well it will be harder and take longer than with a puppy. Start slowly and be patient, fist just get him use to the tool without any touching get it nearer as he gets use to it and then just gently start touching his nails.. If you fear his reaction for sure use a muzzle but I hope you can get him beyond that. First and foremost you don't want him to bite you ever again! I was curious if you have had him since he was a puppy or did you get him as an older dog? I for sure recommend starting with a puppy. Rescue dogs can be fine but you never know for sure about their background and at time you can be in for some unpleasant surprises. 
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
Definitely muzzle him but maybe reintroduce the muzzle in a positive way. Initially I would use it with no relationship to the nails.
How are things with him now?
How are things with him now?
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
Any update?
Folks I have to admit I have anxiety over this – nail trimming. It's a cycle: I dread the trimming so I put it off. Putting it off makes it worse, which increases my dread and anxiety.
As I mentioned above, I have come to believe that Oji is just naturally a Dobe that hates not only to have anything done to him, but most of all hates to have his paws handled. (Well, he may even more hate having his temperature taken in the traditional way). What's more, I believe he actually has unusually sensitive nails. I could go into this further sometime.
It's not getting bitten that I fear, as I muzzle him. Getting cracked in the face is a concern, yes.
No, it's the fear of the whole situation. I cannot let a bite attempt, or even a snap at me, go unanswered. I believe that if I did, Oji would become a dog for which it becomes impossible to even handle his paws. He would learn he can terrorize his way out of ever having his paws touched.
There's no good solution I can think of. I can't administer a physical correction severe enough that makes it worth it to him to not snap at me. Doing so would be at the level of what most could consider abuse. What's more, if I get too firm with him in these situations, he just becomes more aggressive. He doesn't back down or submit. I do think he is acting out of fear actually, but he acts aggressively and dangerously just the same.
I have read in an old book that you can break a dog of biting the handler by hanging it from a choke collar and leash until it passes out. I'm not willing to do that, and I imagine it would not solve the problem. Oji would wake up and be unchanged, and continue his patterns of behavior.
How I wish there was a pill I could give him that would make him so drowsy he would be essentially passed out. I could knock out a complete nail trim session in less than five minutes, I'm sure!
As it is, he is slowly damaging our hardwood floors pretty badly.
As I mentioned above, I have come to believe that Oji is just naturally a Dobe that hates not only to have anything done to him, but most of all hates to have his paws handled. (Well, he may even more hate having his temperature taken in the traditional way). What's more, I believe he actually has unusually sensitive nails. I could go into this further sometime.
It's not getting bitten that I fear, as I muzzle him. Getting cracked in the face is a concern, yes.
No, it's the fear of the whole situation. I cannot let a bite attempt, or even a snap at me, go unanswered. I believe that if I did, Oji would become a dog for which it becomes impossible to even handle his paws. He would learn he can terrorize his way out of ever having his paws touched.
There's no good solution I can think of. I can't administer a physical correction severe enough that makes it worth it to him to not snap at me. Doing so would be at the level of what most could consider abuse. What's more, if I get too firm with him in these situations, he just becomes more aggressive. He doesn't back down or submit. I do think he is acting out of fear actually, but he acts aggressively and dangerously just the same.
I have read in an old book that you can break a dog of biting the handler by hanging it from a choke collar and leash until it passes out. I'm not willing to do that, and I imagine it would not solve the problem. Oji would wake up and be unchanged, and continue his patterns of behavior.
How I wish there was a pill I could give him that would make him so drowsy he would be essentially passed out. I could knock out a complete nail trim session in less than five minutes, I'm sure!
As it is, he is slowly damaging our hardwood floors pretty badly.
I tend to put it off too. But not because Buddy bites me. It's probably more that I have to get on the floor with him to do it. LOL and actually somebody has to hold Kali for me to do hers. Waiting for my husband to help usually means it gets put off. Its a discipline thing. For us!
You seem to have a real problem with Oji. Biting and snapping at you is a real nono. Have you tried doing it a little every day? Even if it's just one toe? How about just handling his foot every day? I think there are some animals who are more sensitive about someone touching their feet. I know my daughter's last cat was like that. Didn't like you touching her feet at all! Actually, my two aren't in love with it either. Even if I'm not dremeling and just kind of massaging, they'll eventually pull back. I've gotten close to the quick so I'm sure their anxiety is from that anticipation. Can't blame them.
In my opinion it sounds like you need to start completely over, like he'd never had his nails done in his whole life and didn't like his feet handled. Pick up all four feet several times a day with "yes" and high reward treat. Move to holding a toe for just a second or two "yes" and treat. Increasing time with each foot & toes with no nail clipping so it becomes just a foot handling thing, not a nail clipping thing. Short short sessions always ending before Oji gets anxious. If he gets anxious the instant you pick up a foot, I would touch somewhere else or jolly him in some way to decrease the angst before moving back to the foot. It's way harder to do this now that he hates nail clipping, but if you are dedicated it will eventually smooth out. Do you use a dremmel or clippers? Clipping nails can crush the whole nail without hitting the quick making some dogs really hate it. On the other hand, dremmel noise can upset one and you have to hold the toe hard to keep the tool from "chattering" on the nail. I used to groom dogs at the vet clinic where I worked years ago and the bad dogs we just snubbed up to a post where they couldn't get their face close to you and "man-handled" it as quickly as possible.
`Thanks for the replies, ladies. I needed to vent. Thank you for your recommendations.
I should clear up something: While Oji is sensitive about having anything done to him, and is sensitive about his paws, I am very thankful that he is very tolerant of our baby. No, I don't just let her do whatever; but life is life and once or twice I have looked over to see her touching his paws. He didn't even so much as pull them back. This from the same dog who has left a permanent scar on my face.
So it could be reasoned that he just has a problem with me; but I think it would be with anyone who tries to get him to do something he doesn't want to do, or who tries to do something to him he doesn't want. Remember the bloodied vet tech who was trying to hold him while he got his temp. checked.
Yes, I suppose I could try to start over with his acclimating to nail trimming. Keep in mind that I've done it the same with Oji as I have with my previous two Dobes who accepted things normally.
It's good to get the perspective of a former groomer. You guys and gals don't have the ability of taking months and months to gain the trust of a dog, so you are forced to force the issue.
It reminds me that Oji's breeder told me in the past that they simply tie the Dobes to a doorknob and get it done. My reaction was that I don't want to damage my doorknobs in the house with all the forces exerted; but I am intrigued anew with the idea of taking a whole different physical approach to nail trimming. Instead of me standing over him, us both facing the same direction, could I simply anchor his neck to a solid post somehow and just get in there and get those nails ground down quickly? Hmm.
(to answer the question: I use a dremel tool. I have tried a guillotine but his reaction to that was even more problematic in that the panic was instantaneous and the snap toward me was as well – very explosive situation.)
I should clear up something: While Oji is sensitive about having anything done to him, and is sensitive about his paws, I am very thankful that he is very tolerant of our baby. No, I don't just let her do whatever; but life is life and once or twice I have looked over to see her touching his paws. He didn't even so much as pull them back. This from the same dog who has left a permanent scar on my face.
So it could be reasoned that he just has a problem with me; but I think it would be with anyone who tries to get him to do something he doesn't want to do, or who tries to do something to him he doesn't want. Remember the bloodied vet tech who was trying to hold him while he got his temp. checked.
Yes, I suppose I could try to start over with his acclimating to nail trimming. Keep in mind that I've done it the same with Oji as I have with my previous two Dobes who accepted things normally.
It's good to get the perspective of a former groomer. You guys and gals don't have the ability of taking months and months to gain the trust of a dog, so you are forced to force the issue.
It reminds me that Oji's breeder told me in the past that they simply tie the Dobes to a doorknob and get it done. My reaction was that I don't want to damage my doorknobs in the house with all the forces exerted; but I am intrigued anew with the idea of taking a whole different physical approach to nail trimming. Instead of me standing over him, us both facing the same direction, could I simply anchor his neck to a solid post somehow and just get in there and get those nails ground down quickly? Hmm.
(to answer the question: I use a dremel tool. I have tried a guillotine but his reaction to that was even more problematic in that the panic was instantaneous and the snap toward me was as well – very explosive situation.)
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
I agree to experiment with different settings to see if he becomes more agreeable to the process. Maybe you even need a second person to help you out.
I totally under the dread and anxiety though, we’ve had a Dremel and table at home for almost a year and I just avoided the whole thing.
Kaiser’s groomer pre-Covid would have him jump on a table and one of the table legs had a short leash to keep his head down while he lays flat. Then I’d lean over him to keep his body down or help with holding his legs. He used to require 2 strangers to hold him down, but in recent years, I could easily handle him and he wouldn’t try to leave.
Since the apocalypse started, we’ve been doing it ourselves. Initially I would run the tool while treating him and then turn it off. I’d leave the Dremel laying around so he could sniff it.
Then when the dreaded clicking started, we knew we’d have to force the issue. At home, we replicated the groomer situation and he got used to being on the table so much so that he’d even snooze on there! But then we moved the table into the laundry room and he didn’t want his nails done on there so we moved into an open space. He still didn’t want the table, so now we get on our knees while he’s flat on the floor. Imagine that! All these years a table in a closed room was fine, but not if he had the option to avoid it. The first time I did just the hind legs and then let him blow off some steam by leaving and trotting around. He came back on his own and then I did the front two. It wasn’t a great job, I kept it quick so he would know the world wasn’t about to end. The entire time my hb kept him distracted with high value treats. Then we repeated it every week so he knows he can’t avoid it. We still need to keep him distracted by treats, and we still give him a breather when we move from back legs to front. The groomer would do his nails so short he could last 3 weeks, but I’m barely able to get off enough to last a week, so it’s definitely a work in progress. Keep trying!
I totally under the dread and anxiety though, we’ve had a Dremel and table at home for almost a year and I just avoided the whole thing.
Kaiser’s groomer pre-Covid would have him jump on a table and one of the table legs had a short leash to keep his head down while he lays flat. Then I’d lean over him to keep his body down or help with holding his legs. He used to require 2 strangers to hold him down, but in recent years, I could easily handle him and he wouldn’t try to leave.
Since the apocalypse started, we’ve been doing it ourselves. Initially I would run the tool while treating him and then turn it off. I’d leave the Dremel laying around so he could sniff it.
Then when the dreaded clicking started, we knew we’d have to force the issue. At home, we replicated the groomer situation and he got used to being on the table so much so that he’d even snooze on there! But then we moved the table into the laundry room and he didn’t want his nails done on there so we moved into an open space. He still didn’t want the table, so now we get on our knees while he’s flat on the floor. Imagine that! All these years a table in a closed room was fine, but not if he had the option to avoid it. The first time I did just the hind legs and then let him blow off some steam by leaving and trotting around. He came back on his own and then I did the front two. It wasn’t a great job, I kept it quick so he would know the world wasn’t about to end. The entire time my hb kept him distracted with high value treats. Then we repeated it every week so he knows he can’t avoid it. We still need to keep him distracted by treats, and we still give him a breather when we move from back legs to front. The groomer would do his nails so short he could last 3 weeks, but I’m barely able to get off enough to last a week, so it’s definitely a work in progress. Keep trying!
I've been doing things that worked for my Heart Dobe in the '90's and I have been really rudely awakened. I was told 100 times "ya gotta train the dog in front of you". Before I ordered up a working bred dog, I did find an extended pedigree on my old former dog and it was full of SchH3 dogs so I felt confident I wasn't going in over my head. I do love my puppy, but she hasn't made ANYthing easy or normal. She is hard, hard, hard and by that I mean she challenges every.single.thing. The nails get done about every week to 10 days. I have ToeNail Tuesday, but almost every week it's Thursday or Friday. I started out treating after every nail, now I treat after every foot. Even when they don't need done, I do them, just brush over all nails with the Dremel. I get on her bed on the floor and do them with her lying down. She hates it but is tolerant, knowing the treats will happen. When we are all done and I'm wrapping the cord around the tool, she is leaping and barking and trying to bite it. It was our first "Hold & Bark" LOL. She wants to kill it if she sees it out anywhere.
I'd consider it as a last resort, since he is looking to you as a trustworthy pack-leader, but yes, especially if he really has been putting YOU in a position of HIM being the pack-leader, (not "letting" you trim nails) this would be the equivalent of putting him in his place, doing what you said needed to be done, just do it with no anger and when you are done go do something really really fun with him.
YES! And for Oji too! You can do one foot a day 4 days in a row if it lowers the stress until it's no big deal. The more often it's done the more it becomes a reality in day to day life and they realize it can't be avoided, so once a week is better than waiting 3 weeks hoping the clicking on the floor doesn't happen...
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
These dogs are impossible when they’re puppies! At least you loved your dog right from the start
Kaiser was probably the worst thing that could have happened to our marriage 
He burst every last bubble of an easy, quiet, and nice life. Now we have fur in our food and a horse in the house. But he’s amazing! 
I still can’t wait to get back to work though 
LifeofRubie
Moderator
So Moose doesn't let me dremmel his nails. It's too loud and too grindy, I think. Just the overall sensation of it.
One of the accounts I follow on IG swears by the Pawineer Puptrimmer Pro and had a discount code so I figured, what the heck.
I wanted to try it several times before offering an opinion but so far, I've been able to do Moo's nails without *much* pushback from him. I really wasn't sure if it would be up to the task for Rubie's nails since they're much harder. If definitely takes longer but she's more tolerant of it than the dremmel and it does not run out of charge (rechargeable via provided cable). I've been working with Moo on an almost daily basis. His nails are longer than I like so I was taking him ever two weeks to a locally owned place within walking distance. I figured at $15 a pop, a new trimmer would pay for itself within a couple of months.
Since it's cordless, I can just grab it and take Moo outside and do a quick grind on each nail. Rubie still get's the grooming arm because, again, hers are done weekly and just take longer. Much easier to maneuver than the full sized, plug in dremmel.
The ONLY downside I see is that they advertise a diamond bit but when I purchased it, they said that most people buy a replacement bit within 4 months and all they list for care instructions is to wipe with a wet cloth to remove dust so... I'm thinking it's not a true diamond bit. They're listed for $10 on their website though so not a show stopper. Moo's toes are looking pretty good!! AND (lucky dogs!) I'm going to bring it camping so as not to miss a beat.
One of the accounts I follow on IG swears by the Pawineer Puptrimmer Pro and had a discount code so I figured, what the heck.
I wanted to try it several times before offering an opinion but so far, I've been able to do Moo's nails without *much* pushback from him. I really wasn't sure if it would be up to the task for Rubie's nails since they're much harder. If definitely takes longer but she's more tolerant of it than the dremmel and it does not run out of charge (rechargeable via provided cable). I've been working with Moo on an almost daily basis. His nails are longer than I like so I was taking him ever two weeks to a locally owned place within walking distance. I figured at $15 a pop, a new trimmer would pay for itself within a couple of months.
Since it's cordless, I can just grab it and take Moo outside and do a quick grind on each nail. Rubie still get's the grooming arm because, again, hers are done weekly and just take longer. Much easier to maneuver than the full sized, plug in dremmel.
The ONLY downside I see is that they advertise a diamond bit but when I purchased it, they said that most people buy a replacement bit within 4 months and all they list for care instructions is to wipe with a wet cloth to remove dust so... I'm thinking it's not a true diamond bit. They're listed for $10 on their website though so not a show stopper. Moo's toes are looking pretty good!! AND (lucky dogs!) I'm going to bring it camping so as not to miss a beat.
Lizbeli
Hot Topics Subscriber
His nails do look good. I have been meaning to buy a diamond attachment but I keep forgetting. I have a Lowe’s dremel that came with some sand paper ones. Surprisingly they are still grinding well and I do Jaspers every week. He is pretty good but lately he does this thing where he pulls his foot away as soon as I try to do his nails. Maybe ill invest in a grooming arm too.
His nails are definitely short. I can’t stand the clacking on my hardwoods. Normally it is every week where that starts to happen even with them so short.
His nails are definitely short. I can’t stand the clacking on my hardwoods. Normally it is every week where that starts to happen even with them so short.
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
Love the enthusiasm! I really enjoy doing his nails, it feels so victorious after I feared it for so long lol 
Nice work on the nails @LifeofRubie and @Lizbeli !
LifeofRubie
Moderator
