Building ball drive

[Vlad]

Any advice on how to build ball drive?
My almost 2 yo boy never was interested in playing with a ball but i want to increase his ball drive to use it as a reward while training because his food drive is getting weaker and weaker with age plus a ball is more practical than walking around with food. I know genetics play a huge role on drive but these dogs can learn everything if done the right way. Sometimes he will play with the ball but he always grabs it by the rope and not the ball.

 

[pghoneycutt]

I suggest Chase and Catch 2.0 by Ivan Balabanov. It teaches you how to play ball with your dog to the point that the dog becomes almost addicted to it. There are many options that do not include a rope, but when using a rope, hold the rope in your hand so that all that is left is the ball for the dog to grab. Using a rope is often for possession games. When playing ball you don't want any conflict, just a game of chase and catch.

 

[Vlad]

I suggest Chase and Catch 2.0 by Ivan Balabanov. It teaches you how to play ball with your dog to the point that the dog becomes almost addicted to it. There are many options that do not include a rope, but when using a rope, hold the rope in your hand so that all that is left is the ball for the dog to grab. Using a rope is often for possession games. When playing ball you don't want any conflict, just a game of chase and catch.

Can it be teached at this age? Or has it to be a puppy to build the foundation

 

[Ddski5]

Can it be teached at this age? Or has it to be a puppy to build the foundation

Good question at two years of age but I don’t believe you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Two years is not that old though but the puppy age is ideal.

My first one did not have it genetically in him at all. He would not play ball or fetch worth crap. I had to work day in/out to get him excited about playing ball. He was food driven (yours not as much) so I used that. He did not aim to please me but through daily training he had a really good obedience foundation so he would fetch only because I asked him to, not really the fun stuff he enjoyed. He loved to play tug and get treats so I used those as rewards to excite him about learning to play ball.

Anyway you are friends with another dog that likes to play ball/fetch? What really made a difference was when we got our second Doberman. She is really eager to please and loved to play ball. So him seeing her run and get the ball (excitedly) got him amped up to participate.

Expanding on how I initially trained the non willing to fetch: By himself, you just could not get him excited to go after the ball, period. On training days, I would not feed him breakfast, sometimes even lunch (same day) and then use high value treats- chicken, jerkey, sliced apples- and offer the ball. If he looked at the ball I gave his hungry arse a treat- then worked up from there. Looked at ball- treat. Touched the ball- treat, over and over. Then he associated his hunger to the ball to the treat. Toss ball- he would go to it and then treat…through days of training, he got to where he would get the ball and bring it back for the expected treat. Lots and lots of work done here…prob months of daily training, not all fetch but it was incorporated with obedience skills. That went well and he started to have fun with it, and then when my second Doberman came, she only made it more fun through competition.

Definitely and ideally you want him to have fun and give lots and lots of praise…that’s with all training not just playing ball.

A ball with a rope through it is better. It’s more of an animated object with the rope swinging around and if they “happen” to get it stuck in there you can pull it out.

My first


My second

 

[pghoneycutt]

Can it be teached at this age? Or has it to be a puppy to build the foundation

Yes, it can be. You have to make it fun. Play with the ball yourself, and encourage the dog for any attention the dog gives. You will feel like a fool doing it when the dog doesn't show much attention, but hang in there and don't give up.

 

[Vlad]

I cant even imagine the process of that do i have to hold the ball in my mouth or just kick it around

 

[Vlad]

Good question at two years of age but I don’t believe you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Two years is not that old though but the puppy age is ideal.

My first one did not have it genetically in him at all. He would not play ball or fetch worth crap. I had to work day in/out to get him excited about playing ball. He was food driven (yours not as much) so I used that. He did not aim to please me but through daily training he had a really good obedience foundation so he would fetch only because I asked him to, not really the fun stuff he enjoyed. He loved to play tug and get treats so I used those as rewards to excite him about learning to play ball.

Anyway you are friends with another dog that likes to play ball/fetch? What really made a difference was when we got our second Doberman. She is really eager to please and loved to play ball. So him seeing her run and get the ball (excitedly) got him amped up to participate.

Expanding on how I initially trained the non willing to fetch: By himself, you just could not get him excited to go after the ball, period. On training days, I would not feed him breakfast, sometimes even lunch (same day) and then use high value treats- chicken, jerkey, sliced apples- and offer the ball. If he looked at the ball I gave his hungry arse a treat- then worked up from there. Looked at ball- treat. Touched the ball- treat, over and over. Then he associated his hunger to the ball to the treat. Toss ball- he would go to it and then treat…through days of training, he got to where he would get the ball and bring it back for the expected treat. Lots and lots of work done here…prob months of daily training, not all fetch but it was incorporated with obedience skills. That went well and he started to have fun with it, and then when my second Doberman came, she only made it more fun through competition.

Definitely and ideally you want him to have fun and give lots and lots of praise…that’s with all training not just playing ball.

A ball with a rope through it is better. It’s more of an animated object with the rope swinging around and if they “happen” to get it stuck in there you can pull it out.

My first
View attachment 151049

My second
View attachment 151050

Well after i settle in a new home a second one is on the way hope she has better drive

 

[Rits]

Well after i settle in a new home a second one is on the way hope she has better drive

Just a note! I'm not sure where you got your boy from but if you want better drives it will help if the breeder you buy your next pup from has titles on the back end of the dogs they breed.

 

[Vlad]

Just a note! I'm not sure where you got your boy from but if you want better drives it will help if the breeder you buy your next pup from has titles on the back end of the dogs they breed.

Tbh lately ive been seeing only Dobermans with titles and shitty work. Idk if they ruining this breed or what… its a shame cuz i love this breed more than any but the work … terrible…

 

[pghoneycutt]

I cant even imagine the process of that do i have to hold the ball in my mouth or just kick it around

You can kick and throw it around. Again the video I mentioned shows an example of how this can work. It can be a process.

 

[Ravenbird]

Tbh lately ive been seeing only Dobermans with titles and shitty work. Idk if they ruining this breed or what… its a shame cuz i love this breed more than any but the work … terrible…

Are you referring to bite work sports? If your dog has a pedigree with high-end bite sports titles it would be very odd that he had no ball or food drive. Yes, not everyone wants high drive dogs so many lines of Dobermans were bred to be less sharp. Drive is highly genetic and you can find the drive you want in Dobermans by choosing your breeder accordingly. Many Euro show lines get IGP1 titles to "prove" they can work, but they are not considered good working dogs. Look for several lines of IGP3 dogs in the pedigree if you want a high drive dog.

these dogs can learn everything if done the right way

They can learn a lot, but you will never have the same results if they don't have the inborn temperament and drive. You have some great suggestions here for training to increase ball drive and I hope you have good results. There are many many breeders with good working Dobermans that are bred and born to push at you, bark at anything that is suspicious with zero training and will drive you crazy with their desire to get you to play ball, including doing things they don't especially want (like obedience training) if they know a ball is the reward. There is a reason Dobermans are not seen in protection sports much anymore and it's just as you suggested, not so much "ruining the breed", just not breeding for what their legacy was all about until it's almost gone.

 

[BGpa]

Tbh lately ive been seeing only Dobermans with titles and shitty work. Idk if they ruining this breed or what… its a shame cuz i love this breed more than any but the work … terrible…

Check out UDC vs DPCA/AKC for recommended breeders, if you are looking for drive and temperament working lines vs show lines.

American breeders began selecting for softer temperament in show dogs some decades ago, vs the fierceness sought in German dogs, where biting judges was tolerated...

Different strokes for different folks. Much the same in other breeds like field labs vs show, German Sheperds.

 

[BGpa]

Well after i settle in a new home a second one is on the way hope she has better drive

You might try a tug toy. My Bonnie is indifferent to chasing and retrieving, but loves a tug toy. Once this became the reward, in addition/instead of a food treat the light bulb went on for us both. Its another reward, like praise, but stronger almost as much as food.

I think both Balabanov and Mike Ellis discuss it, "how to" as a training tool.

Caveat, I am not a trainer so I defer to those who are...
But
Bonnie now swims far out in the surf for the kong on a rope, having learned tug rewards incrementally from me luring and rewarding and watching some labs at dog beach. She is nutty about it now.

Now on trail hikes if she gets bored with sniffies she will find a stick and bring it, not to retrieve but for growly play tugging. I just have her do a few things for me, sit, heel, hup etc for a quick tug.
Big fun!

 

[Kaiser2016]

Bonnie now swims far out in the surf for the kong on a rope, having learned tug rewards incrementally from me luring and rewarding and watching some labs at dog beach. She is nutty about it now.

Nice picture! There aren't many Dobermans who will swim, so that is a nice bonus.