Back to drawing board???

[Ddski5]

For the last month I have been tapering Ragnar off the ECollar and leash when in the front yard. I really enjoy letting him free in the front yard having the confidence that he will stay close and not get stupid and run off. This worked well for two weeks.

BUT THEN.....

The last two times in the front he has jetted out like a bolt of lightning. First time he took off down through about ten yards going crazy spinning and smelling everything. Yesterday he ran six yards over to where there is four huge GS fenced in. I thought, oh shit he is going to get in that yard or the GS might get out and there will be a fight. He ran over there and sat down right at the fence and they all sat there sniffing and licking each other. No growling or snarling, I was very surprised.

I am no longer high value to be around and there are more exciting things in the neighborhood that he wants to see. I guess back to the leash/ECollar with treats in my hand and be patient for his immaturity to alleviate through the years. ...

Any thoughts or ideas on this and how to proceed?

I know it is prob different per dog, per situation but is there an age that you think this will come easier and Ragnar will be more obedient offleash with no ECollar. I have been told by DC members that ages 2-3, there is a significant change.

 

[LifeofRubie]

when he's in the front yard, does he get a correction when he steps out of bounds, when wearing the eCollar? Does he know your yard "boundaries?" Similar to an e-fence situation?

In our fence-less rental, I worked on providing boundaries for Rubie. If she got close to them, even with the eCollar on with no stim, usually a firm NOOOPE would have her do an about face - not even a recall, necessarily, just a "that is off limits" type thing, go somewhere else.

I'm not sure if I would WILLINGLY let Rubie into the front yard without her eCollar (she's almost 3) on knowing we have an active neighborhood and anyone could walk by at any time. Her recall is very good but sometimes something else is just too interesting and I'm not willing to take even a 1% chance.

I know when they're doing well we want to push the boundaries but now that he knows he's got a friend a few yards over, I think the desire to leave will be very great. Just keep practicing with him!

 

[Brioddy]

I let my dogs off leash in my yard all the time. They have a great recall no matter where they are, sometimes they’ll stray into my neighbors (my ducks do too, thankfully he doesn’t mind!) or go exploring up the mountain. They know I almost always have treats on me and it’s worth running over for despite what else is going on. Brinks in particular has a strong prey and chase drive, but also easily diverted... I can get his attention and start running and he comes flying. They also know the boundaries fairly well, after time though. I will also add I live in the country and not in a residential area, I can’t imagine I’d ever let them off leash in a suburb.

On another note, Brinks will be turning three in February and I’ve noticed changes in him fairly recently. He has filled out a bit more (90 lbs as of last night) and his features seem to have a more mature edge. He’s still a big goofball though.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Mine will attempt a quick run without the ecollar but a quick hey or hup gets them back immediately.

Bogie is getting better about behaving but I also know he has a high prey drive and would follow suit on an iguana or other animal and be deaf to my commands for a bit or two.

If I go to leave and my husband decides to go out the gate they both will give him the bum rush and get out chasing after me. I have to stop and open the truck door and they fly into it.
I get really pissed because I feel he should have better control of them. He gets upset with me saying they don’t do that when I am not around.
I tried to explain since I feed, train and play with them they look at me as high value so he needs to get more involved with their care and training.

Bogie cannot stand being away from me except to give chase on an iguana.

I will never totally trust them free without an ecollar even though they have great recall. It only takes one minute for a lifetime of regret.

 

[Doberman Gang]

I live where there is a leash law, so if I am taken by the dogs outside of the fence or out the front of the house, it is just to load upon the van to go train somewhere. So still leash to the van or with Blaze leash and ecollar but he is hard to control and still learning the rules of loading and unloading.
As for being off leash or off ecollar during training at different places you definitely have to established yourself as the most important and highest value. I don’t know that any food treat for a reward is high enough value to make you the highest value. To me this is done thru play and having a favorite toy they only get when out with me off leash. Barriers and distance corrections must be in place and consistent so they understand the exact rules of being off leash. I rarely have the ecollar off unless I am prepping for a trial. To me if I did have them off leash at home in the front yard they would always have an ecollar for safety purposes.

 

[Kaiser2016]

I'd say he can't be collar free in the front yard unless you move to being way out in the country. First for safety, second because they are naturally curious creatures. Our garage is at the front of the house so when he's out there, he's on a long line that lets him get onto less than half the driveway. That keeps him far away enough from any sidewalk users.

From what I see in Kaiser, maybe only as a much older dog would he not use the opportunity to explore. I hope he proves me wrong though! I believe that the ecollar will always be necessary. I was avoiding it for so long thinking maturity would take over after 2 but I'm not too optimistic on that front. How many way older Dobes are still wearing theirs?

Maturity, from what I'm seeing so far at almost 29 months old, is being able to enjoy relaxing with us vs trying to find the next exciting thing to do. His energy also feels more calm and less "puppy wants to play". There's improved timing of following commands and sometimes I don't even have to ask. More seriousness and alertness around new people and dogs.

 

[jazzies mum]

Still early days for Jazz with her e-collar but she has detuned from the wildlife to an amazing extent. She might only need a correction a couple of times a week now, but, when she needs it she really needs it! She is only about one and a half so still very much a puppy and impulsive. No longer the full on super energy ball she once was and much more relaxing to walk with these days. The problem is that our wildlife has worked out that there isn't much threat from us any more and will often hold their ground until we are very close, and this is sometimes too much for Jazz! I can't really see a time when she will be safe to have off leash without the e-collar any time soon, maybe when she is an old grey muzzle!

 

[Rits]

He's young. Totally normal. Keep the ecollar on outside for those (less than just rare at his age) chances he gets a twig up his bum, lol. For his safety and your peace of mind.

You could try working on teaching him the perimeter of your yard more. This will take time. Through that, maturing and having more fun with you, eventually (should he say, ever dart out the door) you should be able to call him off. Our dogs for example, personally, aren't ever allowed in the front yard off leash. They know if they cross the corner of the house, they would be reprimanded. We live rurally. Less dangers but the front yard is very dangerous as 100ft away is a 45mph county road that is fairly well traveled. So they stay away from even the side of the yard leading to the front, as thats where they start getting called back. They also stay about 10ft away from the property line (no fences) as we have walked it and played within it a dozen times. They know where they are allowed to go and not. Java I would say, I never have habitually let her offleash to potty without an ecollar until 5-6+. Always leash, cable, kennel or ecollar. Paige has always been very close so maybe a year or two younger. They can be out back with no ecollar for a few years now. Granted they are 10 and 11 lol. BUT we know there is a very very small chance they could blow us off however we have had them in prey chase situations and called them off successfully. Those experiences, a lifetime of bonding and training, and living on 3 acres has us very confident in them.

We train and take steps to try to prevent/train for all possible scenarios, but even then he is a thinking beast and there is always a chance he chooses to ignore. Id say theres many factors to take into account. Age, risks (cars dogs animals kids), personality, drive, weakneses and strengths, etc. All things to think about to determine if you think he is reliable enough and whether you should ever place him in a situation that would test his training like that without a safety net?

 

[Regalis]

Definitely going to echo others here - I wouldn't trust my dogs out front, offleash without an ecollar. Just too many temptations. Short of a deserted tropical island, they'll never know that level of freedom. And they may never give me an actual reason - but I believe in erring on the side of caution when one mistake can be fatal. Or lead to serious liability issues, in more ways than one - IF they were to bite/injure another living being or cause an accident, I would be deemed at fault. So if they ran out into the road and got hit - I'd be liable for damages to the vehicle(s) ... But we have a state wide leash law. Do you? You wanna check. And check local ordinances, too.

An ounce of prevention and all that good jazz.

 

[Ddski5]

All great replies, thank you.

The parish I live in (called Parishes not counties here) does not have a leash law.

I am going to back it up and walk him around and re-establish the boundaries- will also put his ECollar back on. One reason I stopped was because he is getting some neck acne where the ECollar is. Any recommendations for the neck acne?

I also received some new treats in that I will introduce with recall.


He was doing sooo good!! Uggg.

I need to go back- slow down and be patient.

Much appreciate the info y’all.

 

[jazzies mum]

Just an afterthought about the issue of trying to be the MOST important and interesting thing in Ragnars life. Don't suppose you have access to some really good hiking trails with camping opportunities? Somewhere he's never been that is new and interesting but where he feels he needs to stay close to his "pack", you! There seems to be a marked difference in my girls attitude when we are walking our usual country to when we are on an adventure. A bit of intense one on one time with him needing to rely on you could help maybe?

 

[Kaiser2016]

This.

I can't really see a time when she will be safe to have off leash without the e-collar any time soon, maybe when she is an old grey muzzle!

And this...

He's young. Totally normal. Keep the ecollar on outside for those (less than just rare at his age) chances he gets a twig up his bum, lol.

...

They can be out back with no ecollar for a few years now. Granted they are 10 and 11 lol.

...Means those of with us with MALES, have a snowball's chance in hell. Unless we do this.

Short of a deserted tropical island, they'll never know that level of freedom.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Since you did the board and train, they probably ecollar trained him too? If so, you might not know that long lines are used to enforce ecollar corrections. The same long line can be used in boundary training. It occurred to me when I was practicing ecollar recall with Kaiser.

 

[Ddski5]

Explain long line please. Like a 100ft leash?

 

[Kaiser2016]

Any recommendations for the neck acne?

I also received some new treats in that I will introduce with recall.
View attachment 90624

The neck acne might benefit from Hibiscrub or Vetrycin if you have either on hand. Any chance the contact points might be made of silver? If so, it may be an allergic reaction. Human jewelry made of inferior metals tend to cause allergic reactions, something to look into.

Ah, I see you have the "meatloaf" as well. Dreadful memories of this. It was stuck under my nails for hours as there was no way to wash my hands other than to use sanitizer.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Explain long line please. Like a 100ft leash?

Oh no, just like a 15 or 20 ft leash. That way they 'feel free' but you still have a way to tap them back. I suppose the ecollar will also tap him back, but a physical correction may be more obvious for teaching the boundary. We used a long line to teach/enforce recall as a puppy so he wouldn't go too far. But a long line also gives a big dog time to build speed, so you have to be prepared to drop the handle or you'll get yanked.

 

[Viemarangelrock]

We use long lines in the UK. Ecollars are banned.

If we are not in a fenced area where she can freely run we have her on a 10m long-line (not to be confused with a retractable line!) . The long-line is an invaluable tool for working on recall. ALWAYS use a harness when using the long-line. If you connect it to a neck collar and he runs full pelt you can do some serious neck damage

 

[My2Girls]

I bought my long lines from Leerburg. One is 15 ft mostly for training and then I have a 33 ft line for the beach for when we travel and they require dogs to be leashed.

 

[Doberman Gang]

The neck acne might benefit from Hibiscrub or Vetrycin if you have either on hand. Any chance the contact points might be made of silver? If so, it may be an allergic reaction. Human jewelry made of inferior metals tend to cause allergic reactions, something to look into.

Ah, I see you have the "meatloaf" as well. Dreadful memories of this. It was stuck under my nails for hours as there was no way to wash my hands other than to use sanitizer.
View attachment 90751

How did you get it under your nail? Didn’t you cut it up first or did you just rip off chunks with you fingers.

 

[Kaiser2016]

How did you get it under your nail? Didn’t you cut it up first or did you just rip off chunks with you fingers.

Haha, no it was chopped up into little cubes like the pics you posted a while back. Our trainer used a 'funnel hand' approach where K has to push in to get the cubes. I'm guessing the combo of the soft food and his slob broke it up enough. It was under EVERY nail. Amazingly he did not break or bite my nails or my hand! Ugh it was a long class too so the stuff was really caked in there.