Thank you - I always appreciate input. I definitely don't want to make problems, but was hoping that if I made some of the actions/exercises familiar that it would make it easier when we did go to the club on a protection day. That's a real good idea of doing the escape exercise by leaving the toy at the helpers place and doing the sit and back away paces. I'll definitely do that. I have been working and working on Obedience while she's in toy drive and it's a challenge. Doable, but not very pretty.Yes, typically don’t like the idea of people working their own dogs in protection. I have seen many problems come from that. I understand it though especially when people don’t have access to a helper to work their dogs. I usually suggest working exercises with a large tug or even a ball. I have my people teach their dogs to do barking for a ball or tug at the beginning obedience to get them in drive.
Same goes for the escape. Leave dog in a down, go about 5 yards, then take off running holding ball or tug out on your left side. When the dog bites you immediately let go as they go by.
I also would practice secondary obedience. Have your dog sit, leave your dog with the toy, Place the toy where the escape line would be then return back to your dog. Heel your dog 10 to 15 paces towards the toy. Stop wait for the sit then ask for the down. Back away 3-4 paces then release your dog to go get the toy. It is the build up to the escape, most dogs will go after the helper but will have control issue’s getting to the line.
What word do you use to release from the down to the escaping helper in trial? And would you use the same word in this exercise?Back away 3-4 paces then release your dog to go get the toy.
Go but it can be any release word. The dog is going when the helper takes off running regardlessWhat word do you use to release from the down to the escaping helper in trial? And would you use the same word in this exercise?
The problem with people working their own dog on a sleeve is presentation and not giving the right picture. Dogs biting in the wrong area of the sleeve or not getting a full grip everytime. If sone wrong too much the dogs muscle memory will create poor bites or missing a grip do to the wrong picture. I noticed in your video in the guard, when you gave the grip she bit a little towards the wrist and not centered on the sleeve. Center of the sleeve or even slightly towards the elbow is a better grip and picture. Your dog will lose points if the grip get closer to the wrist and the helper won’t be able to control the dog as well, this will make the routine to look worse.Thank you - I always appreciate input. I definitely don't want to make problems, but was hoping that if I made some of the actions/exercises familiar that it would make it easier when we did go to the club on a protection day. That's a real good idea of doing the escape exercise by leaving the toy at the helpers place and doing the sit and back away paces. I'll definitely do that. I have been working and working on Obedience while she's in toy drive and it's a challenge. Doable, but not very pretty.
As a helper, you can probably relate to things that mess up a dog (in protection) the most. As a newbie, I don't know near enough, that's why I ask! I keep hearing over and over about being very careful about choosing who works your dogs, but I'm open to hearing from helpers what they don't want handlers doing.
Training anything seems to go so much better with regular repetitions. Going a month or 6 - 8 weeks between bite work sessions is very slow building. I was hoping to do just a little stuff like my videos show maybe once a week. Asha has maybe 12 sessions with a helper now in all of her 3 years, so I can't help but think what she'd be like if I'd had a local club and could have had 50 or 60 sessions under her belt by now.
So I got this sleeve... LOL. Decided I would figure out how to get a little bit of the pattern practice in at home. I've heard mixed reviews on being your dogs own helper, but I think with no pressure, just playing the games should just teach her the way the exercises work. @Doberman Gang and @strykerdobe - tell me if you think this is a bad idea or if you have any ideas of how to make anything better.
I was super pleased with the Hold & Bark, as this is only the 3rd time I tried it from a down - the first couple of times (a week ago) she tried to nip the sleeve when she came up, but both times today didn't touch it. You can't tell from the camera angle, but the tree blocked her view of me, so it was "kinda like" a blind.
This next one mimics the "escape". I went very slow and just let her have the sleeve off my arm. I'm not even dreaming about trying to catch her or even hang on. I'm not that strong. So all the work I'll be doing will be instant reward with the sleeve.
Yeah, I've been saying "go" or "k" (short for OK), she can hear it if I barely whisper it. I thought if I was using fuss & Platz the go word had to be German also, but I couldn't find the word for that exercise in the rulebook. Great tip about watching the judges signal instead of waiting for the helper to move!Go but it can be any release word. The dog is going when the helper takes off running regardless.
In the trial you leave the dog and go to the blind. Being a helper I know the judge will signal the helper when to run, so I watch the judge and say go when he gives the signal. Gives you dog a bit of a head start.![]()
Excellent explanation and I'll take it to heart. She's so much better than I'll ever be. Your in depth description of how to work on it is very valuable and steps are very well written out. One training video I saw, the helper has a bite pillow behind his back with the sleeve in front and after a good solid H & B he'd toss the pillow out for reward. So they get the presentation picture, they get the reward of toy, but since they never get the sleeve in the H & B, they were saying it shouldn't be part of the picture.The problem with people working their own dog on a sleeve is presentation and not giving the right picture. Dogs biting in the wrong area of the sleeve or not getting a full grip everytime. If sone wrong too much the dogs muscle memory will create poor bites or missing a grip do to the wrong picture. I noticed in your video in the guard, when you gave the grip she bit a little towards the wrist and not centered on the sleeve. Center of the sleeve or even slightly towards the elbow is a better grip and picture. Your dog will lose points if the grip get closer to the wrist and the helper won’t be able to control the dog as well, this will make the routine to look worse.
Thanks for your input too - it's all good stuff. I've done the exercises you mention and I have the 3 handled bite pillow too. One the tie-back I found I just am not fast enough/co-ordinated enough to let her have it by swinging it by (learned to never "feed" it to the dog). my hands kept getting in the way of her teeth.I myself don't do my own helper work with a full sleeve. I do have a small 3 handle bite pillow. I use it sometimes for rewards in heeling, sit in motion when I walk back to Arson then I give him a bite and sometimes for a hold and bark. Also, I do platz him walk away about 25-30 paces turn and tell him to go and I hold the pillow out away from my body and shoulder high. As he is jumping through the air just before he bites the pillow I let go.
Some of the same things @DobermanGang mentioned.
It's ok if you back tied a dog and use the full sleeve to tease and run by them to help build drive and then give them a bite. The presentation and angle of the sleeve is very important for a good full grip and they are biting the correct spot on the sleeve.