Two things I have noticed in my search on the Internet for dobermans. Most doberman breeders are not good at building/keeping current their web sites and they don't like to answer emails promptly.
It will be interesting to see if you get a response.
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Anyone have any experience with this breeder?
- Thread starter m1aman
- Start date
Two things I have noticed in my search on the Internet for dobermans. Most doberman breeders are not good at building/keeping current their web sites and they don't like to answer emails promptly.
It will be interesting to see if you get a response.
Ataro
Notable member
Two things I have noticed in my search on the Internet for dobermans. Most doberman breeders are not good at building/keeping current their web sites and they don't like to answer emails promptly.
It will be interesting to see if you get a response.
If you want to read about breeder communication frustration, look up my thread "Question to anyone who has ever bought or bred a dog".
I agree with everyone here...
I would also add that Mississippi is NOT known as a bastion of good breeders... contrarily it is known as a PUPPY MILL and a BYB state.. no offense to you Mississipians... its just that some states are worse than others for BYB and puppy mills.
What if any research did you do for adoption of a rescued dog? there are literally thousands of rescues available just about anywhere and everywhere and they come in all ages, sizes and colors and the average adoption fee from a bona fide Doberman rescue is less than $500 and they come spayed, or neutered, shots, health tested, vet checked, and temperament tested. In arizona we have an awesome rescue group and I know that they have had puppies as young as 6 months old and I have heard of a rescue in Las Vegas who got a pregnant female in and she had a litter of purebred (NON registered of course) puppies. It happens all the time....
Just MY 2 cents since you do not want to breed, show nor are you concerned with pedigree and or the like. Why not then just rescue a beautiful juvenile or young adult and save a life and in the process gain a fabulous PET and life long friend?
I wouldn't be so fast to recommend a rescue. Before Drake, I had never purchased a dog in my life. Never even consider it because there were so many dogs in need of a home. But I think you are kidding yourself if you think it is that easy to find a nice healthy hog at a rescue. Often they come with baggage or from the BYB's and they have so many health problems the the owner can't afford to keep them. If they are from a responsible breeder then often that is because the owner made a poor choice in the breed of dog that would work for them and may have other issues due to lack of care and training. No rescuing is not for the faint of heart and you must be aware of the risk involved and the possible work and finances involved before considering a rescue.
My Greta is a very sweet girl, but I can tell you that if she had not come to my house when she was rescued, she probably would have been tossed from home to home, if not put down because of her lack of training and the list of health problems that is as long as your arm. There is no shame in wanting to purchase a healthy well bred dog. In fact you may be helping the rescue over population by doing so. If we do our research and find the right breeder and the right breed of dog for our lifestyle, could it be that the BYB's would not have any customers. That would be a better answer than coming after the fact to pick up the pieces. And it may get the lawmakers off the backs of the the responsible breeders.
Two things I have noticed in my search on the Internet for dobermans. Most doberman breeders are not good at building/keeping current their web sites and they don't like to answer emails promptly.
It will be interesting to see if you get a response.
You are so right. Maybe I should give them a call. Should I tell them of the review they have gotten here? LOL!
Ataro
Notable member
Calls are definitely better when it comes to getting quick answers from people, unless if you're a bit of a phone-phobic like me, well... I don't know, I also think some people are charismatic and not necessarily who they say they are, and so I prefer to have what they say in writing to be able to refer back to it later.
As for rescues, definitely agree with you on that one. I've tried out a bunch of baggage carrying cats, and in the end decided not to get one and to foster as doing my bit for the animal world.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Just goes to show you, you can't believe everything on the web. I have heard Missouri, Arkansas and Pennsylvania brought on in the disucssions on puppy mill states but never Mississippi - I think with Desert Legend, Family Dobes, Legacy Dobermans and............. Arizona is probably going to join that rank soon as a hotbed of BYB.
kaloric
Well-Known Member
You're spot-on, and I'd add that responsible breeders do tend to care enough even after the sale of a pup to take the dog back and rehome it if something goes wrong or doesn't work out. I got my previous Dobe from a breeder who took her back and needed to rehome her, and that worked out pretty well. I consider it a plus, almost a must, that the breeder states that you can surrender the dog back to them at any time and they will find a new home for it, should things not work out for whatever reason. If the breeder considers you to be on your own after you hand over the cash, that's a major red flag, and just wrong, and that's one way dogs wind-up in rescues.
Another good point. I don't know where Drake and I would be if his breeder forgot us after we handed over the cash. I have never had a puppy before and never trained a true working dog. Without the help of his breeder, I'm just not sure... wouldn't even want to venture a guess.
OMG! I just looked up the phone number of Sure shot, Down home... whatever they are calling themselves this week. It appears you can just pick your puppy out, add it to your cart, pay them $1850.00 and presto! you have a puppy. They don't even care who they sell too. What if I was Michael Vick??
Denissov43
Notable member
Well I have quite a bit of experience with rescued dogs and I am also a responsible breeder and have the code that says if you are gonna breed, you must also rescue...
I have four rescued animals in my home and I have owned and rescued about four dobermans and all of them were awesome dogs...
NOT ALL rescues are problem dogs, but ALL rescues deserve a home and for someone who is NOT going to show, title or do any 'work' with their Doberman other than just have them as a pet?
Why would you recommend that they BUY/PURCHASE a dog from a breeder who if they are breeding are breeding to IMPROVE the breed and therefore should be breeding top quality dogs that can be shown, titled and bred?
Whats the purpose of breeding if NOT to improve the breed? the purpose of breeding if NOT to improve is to make 'money' therefore that breeder is NOT really reputable... EVERY breeder who breeds should be doing their utmost to find the best dogs, the best pedigrees and should be titling their dogs before breeding them and they should be titling them in everything they can be titled in. Some breeders do not title their dogs at all, and to me, this is NOT a reputable breeder. ALL of my dogs who were bred were titled, all of my dogs who I sell I hope that the person who is buying them will work on titling my progeny to demonstrate that my progeny is an improvement in the breed.
So for those of you who DO NOT SUPPORT RESCUE and you BREED? you are out of balance and you are not doing your utmost for the breed. Breeders often have rescued dogs available that they have rescued doing their due diligence and have those dogs available for homes just like this guy wants... a PET HOME... a dog that did not make the grade in the show ring or it did not end up staying in the home that originally bought does not mean that the dog has 'issues'....
$2200 puppies have issues.... $3500 puppies have issues..... Beteleges Kennel in Serbia who is a renowned kennel and has wonderful dogs recently had 3 puppies die before they were 1 year old.... and the kennel did not offer a refund and or a replacement puppy for free... so just because you buy from a 'renowned breeder' and a well known or top shelf breeder does not mean you will have a dog with NO ISSUES> What is really heart breaking is when you paid thousands of dollars for your puppy with the hopes of titling them and showing them or even just having them as pets and they die of some congential issue before their time...
This breed has a liteny of issues and if you are going to buy a GOOD QUALITY puppy you can still end up with major issues.
So why start there? if you want a good dog for a companion and a friend... start doing the research on a rescue and something in your area is bound to show up.... there are so many wonderful Dobies in need of a forever home that its simply ridiculous! the breed is wonderful and a rescue dog can end up living far beyond the years of a top shelf kennel puppy... I know of dozens of Dobie lovers of Facebook who have rescues and some of them have many.... one gentleman has 8 and all of which are fabulous dogs... one gal has had 6-8 in her lifetime and ONLY had rescues.... I have never had a bad rescue, but I actually know of more puppies that were purchased from a breeder who turned out to have so many issues it was ridiculous... So the cost for a good dog and the fact that you bought from a 'reputable breeder' does NOT ensure you will not have heartache of a puppy..... so to rubber stamp all rescues as being problems is simply untrue and ridiculous!
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
So once again would you mind sharing exactly what titles you have earned on what dogs??? We have asked this in several threads as you always mention it but fail to respond. I think it is a fair question and see no reason to avoid it.
Then you stated in a thread you started that you recommended all EXCELLENT breeders wait til 6 to breed - we asked if that was your plan and you left the thread or ignore it.
I know you have supported breeders who have bred for several years and never shown a dog til recently - I am not saying it is wrong just how does this fit in with your philosophy that now all dogs must be titled in all venues before breeding or is this another one of those things you throw out there and then will disappear because you can't or won't answer??? So we can expect to see GR with a CH, CD and Sch title before breeding??? Wait didn't you just try to do a breeding to Trotyl??? How does that fit with what you just said above???
I think anyone who post on a list should realize that some people do actually read post and remember things. So if you are gong to post - honesty is the best policy because then you dont' have to avoid threads or post something that condicts to what you have posted prior. This can come up to bite you!!!
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
Not all pups in a litter are "show" quality or worthy of being bred. I would recommend rescue too, but I think the OP is interested in health and with rescuing, that is all up in the air of course with no idea what the dog's background is. The OP also mentioned that he has previously rescued three dobes and wants his next dog to be as healthy as poss. as you can see in the quote below.
Rits
Hot Topics Subscriber
And yes, a dog from a reputable breeder can come up with "issuse" as you put it. But, I'd rather have the odds stacked in my favor with a breeder that health tests instead of hoping I get lucky with a rescue. Don't get me wrong...I have two rescues at the moment, and my previous family dog (MY first dog) was a rescue so I am not against rescues what so ever, in fact, I will probably always have a rescue dog in my house. I just wanted to point out that the OP did state those things I posted above and that is probably why no one has suggested it because the OP already mentioned they weren't interested.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
I agree Rits I forgot to address that issue and it certainly does not mean that the breeding was bad because it produced pet puppies.. I won't even touch on throwing out info on a breeder in Euro when you were not there and it could very well be a rumor unless one has absolute proof of such a statement..
Maybe I should have explained in more detail. I have had dozens of dogs and almost every single one of them has been a rescue of some sort. I haven't owned a pure bred, registered dog since 1980. ( a great dane, Princess Sheba Anne) I want to do something different this time. I want a puppy or young dog with some known pedigree and health assurances. I do not want another rescue at this time. In the future, sure.
For some reason I am having trouble putting my thoughts into words. But I hope you understand what I mean.
For some reason I am having trouble putting my thoughts into words. But I hope you understand what I mean.
Of course you can get a wonderful rescue. I have had several myself. Just so you know I NEVER rubber stamped all rescues as being problems. I was just trying to point out that is not always the pretty picture you painted. Are you kidding me? Why would I continue to rescue if I only had bad luck stories.
You say you are a reputable, would you provide your website so I can make that decision for my self. For me that is not something I would take anyone's word for.
kaloric
Well-Known Member
There's a bit of a difference between a breeder who rehomes dogs he or she had previous sold, and a regular rescue who just accepts any dog of a particular breed & scours animal shelters for any that happen to be put-up for adoption. In the latter, you really don't know any more about the dog, its health prognosis, or its past than what you can see right in front of you.
I wouldn't stamp all rescues as being problems, and I don't think anyone else would, either. It's just that you don't know what you are getting into, you're signing-on to be a forever home without knowing the first thing about dog's past in most cases.
The vibe I got from the couple of breed rescues I contacted many, many years ago (one of which was a GSD rescue, but I can't say I actually visited with anyone involved with rescuing Dobes) just didn't make me want to deal with them, either. I got the feeling that they intended to place all the blame solidly on my head and make me feel bad if I was to return a dog to them because the situation just wasn't working out. I tend to be overly sensitive on issues like that, and absolutely don't want to be in that position. It's not fair to oneself or the dog to keep it out of a sense of guilt, obligation, or shame if you're just not bonding, but that's sort of the corner some rescues seem to put folks in.
You're absolutely right, of course, that you have no guarantees with a puppy from a reputable breeder, but at least you know its past and that it wasn't the result of a haphazard pairing with uncertain genetic history, produced just to make a quick buck. And, well, people who buy linebred dogs from breeders who focus on those sorts of programs can see in the pedigree that inbreeding has occurred, and that health risks will be amplified-- caveat emptor.
Now, if you had rescues that weren't as obsessed with control and weren't so condescending, it would be much more appealing to help them out. I'll just throw this out there, rescues are asking prospective owners to take on a lot of unknown, potentially expensive, and potentially heartbreaking risks, while giving them more grief and demanding more control (such as those "your dog is never actually yours, it's our dog FOREVER and we're just letting you keep it for now, and you give us permission to inspect your home at any time in the future" clauses) than most breeders would give a prospective buyer, and that just seems dumb.
That said, my previous (and first) Dobe was one who had been returned to her breeder. The breeder knew a lot about her circumstances in her previous home, so I had a good idea what I was getting into. That was a win-win situation and it worked out really well.
