Angel

[LucyXIII]

It brings me the greatest pleasure to introduce: Angel! No reg name yet, but he is a Melrae pup. He's just over 9weeks and he is A LOT. He's making me work too tire him. His favorite things are food and finding bits of debris to ingest.
Thank you to the whole extended Melrae and Soluna fam on here, watching your dogs gave me in insight into the line. Special thanks to @JanS for the recommendation.

We're working on leash, name, and leave it. Leave it gets used a lot.

The immediate struggle we have though, is the Crate. He didn't fuss overmuch when we first started the (9hr) drive; but each time we shut him in, he panics more. Screaming, pawing and biting the crate door. I've tried to leave him to settle (we're always in the same room), tried comforting him through the crate with sweet nothings, treats and chilling next to it. The chilling has been the most effective -- for variable definitions of "effective".

I been studying the happy crating presentation from FDSA, and it says, that panic is not normal and you should not allow panic to continue. You remove them from the crate. Ok, yeah, done. But I still need to be able up put him up so we can sleep, cook, eat, feed the cats, use the restroom, *live*.
I know that crating must be trained but at time of writing, we've had him for 24hrs and need to do it at least every night. He also needs to learn to settle, and self-soothe. I don't want to create a negative association with the crate and have to undo what I broke but we need containment.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[JanS]

Ooh he's adorable! Which litter is he from?

As for the crate, Boris, our first got incredibly car sick and the crate made it worse so we just crate trained in the house in a spot where he could see us and make it a safe haven for him. I also feed all of their meals in the crate so they associate it with a positive place.

We were going to need to see a lot of photos and they do grow up incredibly fast.

 

[MichiH]

Aww congratulations I know you’ve been patiently waiting for your special pup! He is adorable!

As for the crate they won’t like it at first, but it just be done for safety and your sanity.

I would and still do make it a game toss in some kibble or Cheerios and say “go night night” she happily goes in. I always play classical music when she’s in her downstairs crate and think she now associates it with it’s time to go night night and chill. Plus, it’s a nice little noise buffer.

Make it a game and use it as a training tool too. Say whatever your choice word is , toss a treat in there and guide him in and continue to do it. So do not cave to his whining when he’s in there or he’ll know that’s what it takes to get out. Pepper still will fuss, but knows it won’t work and she’ll finally quiet and I’ll get her if I can.

2 crates worked best and still does it got can do that. I have one in our room too and she does go in there happily because it’s nigh time for real.

Work on it throughout the day and longer times as he gets used to it. Always have him sleep in it too naps and night time.

Good luck and enjoy him!

 

[LucyXIII]

Thank you! He's Amora's son, I forget the sire's name -- something falcon.

Apparently, my spouse is a guru, because he succeeded in the calming at the door of the crate.

Oh there will be so many pictures

 

[MyBuddy]

Oh my goodness!!! on a Melrae puppy!!! How exciting!

When we brought Annie home from Melissa's, it was a 5-hour trip and she spent it on my lap. She was sleeping the entire ride except for going potty when we stopped. She did very well on the trip home.

Now if you've read my introduction of Annie, the first time we put her in a crate when we were going to eat dinner, she screamed bloody murder... but then she took a dump! I really felt like the screaming was because she had to go. I knew that Melissa had crated them so they should be pretty used to it. And she had, I think, a 3-hour trip to get them cropped. Might have been longer, I can't remember now.

But after the screaming incident and having to clean out the crate I just put a leash on her and kind of hooked it to my chair while we ate. But after that it was a breeze! She went to her crate all the time. We never had a problem. I actually was very surprised! We just had a small puppy crate that I can easily move from the living area to our bedroom at night.

I remember the first night she let out a high pitched scream when we were going to bed. No lie, I actually screamed, QUIET! But I never heard a peep out of her after that. Unbelievable. But I was so worried that she was going to scream that high-pitched scream all night long! But after that, we never had a problem. . Ever. Even in the morning if she's up before we are, she just lets out a little whine. Very quiet. Like, "I'm up. Anybody else?" LOL

She went in her crate a lot. When she grew out of that puppy crate I got two other ones. One larger one to keep in the breakfast room and one a little smaller next to our bed. Sometimes at night she would put herself in her bed if I was laying on my bed reading or something. But she always went in without a peep.

She has free reign of our house now. At least the first floor. She's never gone downstairs or upstairs and I always tell her to stay if I go up or down. So she's not been there yet and has not even attempted. She's really good about that. The only time she goes in her crate now is if we're going out to dinner or away from the house for something. (Shes still in a crate for overnight.) If we're just outside working, she has free reign. But months before she would be in the crate. And she never batted an eye when she was told to go in. Now when I'm going into town or something I get a yummy treat and just tell her, Get in your bed. She flies in there! LOL I never give her a rawhide or anything to choke on. Just something bigger than the normal little treat she gets for potty and stuff like that. I think you just have to keep working on it. There's no way that I would get anything done if I didn't have her go in her crate when she was young.

Now I also had my house blocked off which was so ideal for me. I didn't think I would ever be able to do it because our house is pretty open floor plan with no doors to shut off areas. But I worked it out with an expandable gate on one wall and going into the family room around the other way I just opened up the expandable gate and leaned it between the wall and a piece of furniture. She always respected it. So if she wasn't in her crate at least she was in a somewhat contained (large) area and it was all tile also. But actually the potty training went very well too. I can only think of maybe three times that she had an accident in the house before she 'got it'.

But keep in mind I'm home all the time. So I was able to really watch. And trust me. Annie thought her name was "leave it." Gosh, I remember those days! When she was first here and every. single. thing. she wanted to eat. I don't care what it was. A leaf, an ant, mulch, everything she had to taste. I was watching an old video when she was little and all you hear is me saying, leave it, leave it, leave it.

Looking forward to watching him grow! And boy do they grow fast! Really quite an amazing achievement! LOL Have fun!

 

[JanS]

He's Amora's son

Aww Olive is out of Amora too so they are half siblings. And Annie would be his niece, I think. LOL

 

[Katyusharocket]

 

[Two Dobes]

Hooray!! So happy for you!!!

 

[LucyXIII]

Turns out my spouse is a crate-guru. He did manage to settle the pup outside the crate, and yeah he still has big opinions about the crate and not seeing us, but the intensity and duration have improved.

He doesn't care for wet grass at all, follows us everywhere, an always wants to be touching us -- so the Doberman factory-settings are present.

He's so eager to please and freaking smart -- yesterday we made major progress on name, walking on leash, recall, and leave it. So much practice on leave it.

He does this thing, where he walks to 5ft away from me, sits like a cat statue, and just looks at me.

We were saying that this is hard because we have no tools, he knows nothing, but its rewarding as hell.
Next up is watch me, and kitties are friends, not food. We do not bark at friends.

 

[JanS]

the Doberman factory-settings are present.

LOL that's exactly what I was going to say.

He does this thing, where he walks to 5ft away from me, sits like a cat statue, and just looks at me.

Olive did that big time when we first got her. My takeaway was that she was analyzing us and trying to get to know us to see what we're all about. These are all such confidant pups and adapt to new surroundings very well so that is really nice.

It sounds like things are going great so far!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Congratulations! I really look forward to seeing Angel grow up!

I bet a Dobe from such a good breeder who seems to care about a livable temperament will adapt to the crate pretty quickly. My Oji whined and vocalized in the crate pretty much the entire 9 hour drive home. Thank God I just happened to have earplugs within reach as I drove. Then. at home that night, there was no place in the house that his carrying on could not be heard, so I was forced to sleep on the dining room floor and he came over and laid right up against me. He never willingly accepted the crate his whole life, but sure peed and pooped in it a lot.

Anyway, all that to say I'm sure you'll get along just fine on your journey!

 

[Ravenbird]

Congratulations on your new Angel in life! Just remember it is give & take throughout the whole process of bringing them up. You will reap rewards for your efforts, so keep steady. Looking forward to seeing pictures and progress!

 

[LucyXIII]

Surprising no one, crating and sleeping by ourselves is a Challenge.

We practice a bit during the day, feed him in the crate, speak to him and try to soothe from outside and hang out near and throw treats in. At night, if he cries, he's taken out and brought in after potty and returned to crate. He screams, paws the door, tries to chew it, and today he's in the crate quietly whimpering to himself while he chews or sucks on his flank. I've been trying to soothe, but he's also contorting himself to gnaw on his limbs. He's got a favorite toy in with him, he would be redirected to chew on the toy the one time I tried, but I can't stop him from the self-mouthing without opening the door. When I do, he crawls into my lap and falls instantly asleep.

He finally harumphed down to sleep, but I'm sat on the floor in front.

The crate is in the living room now, because we just weren't sleeping more than 3hrs total. I'm pretty sure that when I get up, he'll start the panicking again, and I'm worried he'll hurt himself physically and that this is hurting him mentally.

Any advice you have is appreciated.
I'm also going to call a trainer tomorrow and ask about coming to the house to work with us now, before real damage is done.

 

[Ravenbird]

We practice a bit during the day, feed him in the crate, speak to him and try to soothe from outside and hang out near and throw treats in. At night, if he cries, he's taken out and brought in after potty and returned to crate. He screams, paws the door, tries to chew it, and today he's in the crate quietly whimpering to himself while he chews or sucks on his flank. I've been trying to soothe, but he's also contorting himself to gnaw on his limbs. He's got a favorite toy in with him, he would be redirected to chew on the toy the one time I tried, but I can't stop him from the self-mouthing without opening the door. When I do, he crawls into my lap and falls instantly asleep.

He finally harumphed down to sleep, but I'm sat on the floor in front.

The crate is in the living room now, because we just weren't sleeping more than 3hrs total. I'm pretty sure that when I get up, he'll start the panicking again, and I'm worried he'll hurt himself physically and that this is hurting him mentally.

I'm sorry you're having a tough time with the crating. What I would usually recommend is to absolutely leave him alone. As long as you are outside the crate talking, soothing, tossing kibble, he will not settle. But you have the additional problem of self mouthing which can turn into a problem in itself, so I see your reluctance to leave him unattended. Does he prefer his flank to his toy? Will he suckle his blanket or toy instead? So many people think it's cute, but it is a true obsession that has become a Doberman trait and I tried to discourage it but my dog does have a blanket that she wads up and holds in her mouth a couple times a day. I think @Ddski5 said he taught his dogs not to, I'm not sure how though, especially at this age. What kind of crate do you have? Can he hurt himself (can he get his teeth caught on wire)? Also as a puppy my dog would contort herself and put her back foot in her mouth, but it was more being silly, not chewing or sucking on it. That went away by the time she was 5 or 6 months.

Again, I want to say just cover the crate and walk away and don't ever let him out while he's screaming as that teaches him how to make you open the door. But I don't like the thought of flank sucking for self-soothing as that can be a life-long habit and can cause hair loss and other problems. Some dogs that are obsessed with mouthing can end up swallowing not-food items which can cause emergency surgery or death. If you are home all day like I was raising my puppy you can utilize an X-pen. It kept my puppy out of the way and safe, but she could see me and feel like she wasn't abandoned and would nap while I was doing chores or cooking etc. I'm not much help, but these are some thoughts to mull over. Hopefully more people will chime in with some thoughts on this.

 

[Ravenbird]

To add, no matter what methods you use to get him use to the crate, it WILL get better with time. The first week away from his littermates and mother is traumatic to him, so just remember this is a huge step for him!

 

[MichiH]

I would suggest a specific crate cover if possible. Amazon has ones, but they reek of who knows what. USA made ones are nice and made of cotton. Pepper ate her sheet I used to cover pulled it through and ate it. I didn’t use a cover for awhile due to that incident. I use a sheet only at night now and make sure it’s not easy to pull through. I think she’s sort of over that, but again she just ate her bed so she’s clearly not over it. Good luck! It will get better like @Ravenbird said with time, consistency, and repetition.

 

[Katyusharocket]

I feel like I don't have a lot to offer you, but I like what has been said so far. What I can offer is possibly the use of a camera to see what he is doing while you are not able to be seen. This could buy you a lot of peace of mind about whether he is flanking when you aren't there. I use them all over my house because I don't crate mine anymore, and it does give me a lot of peace of mind, even just to see that the girls aren't getting testy with each other. Even a baby monitor seems like it would work if you're just watching thru his crate door.

I also want to mention how good of a pet parent I think you are for noticing and also bringing a trainer in who can see what is happening in your particular case, as they are all a bit different. Way to go, working ahead of the curve!

 

[JanS]

I agree with the advice above. Melissa does crate train the pups before they come home but I'm sure this is a big transition for him and it just takes time to get used to your routine.

Our dogs will fuss a bit when we first come home from somewhere but I ignore them, make no eye contact and no talking until they are quiet again.

 

[BGpa]

See if you can get an old tee-shirt or puppy blankie that was used or kept in with littermates and Momma a day or two prior to bringing home your pup. The scent will be reassuring, and you can do the same with one of yours, as the new momma.

Put that blankie in crate, and partly cover the crate with a bigger blanket to make it den-like, but leave room to peek out.

Bait the pup in often during the day with food, or toy but allow pup to leave no pressure, so it associates it as a happy place.

Move crate to bedroom so pup can hear you asleep at night. You can bait the pup in with a food treat, put blanket down over the door to help pup calm down.

Check out "sitting on the dog" method to keep pup leashed and in a down stay napping naturally next to you at first throughout the day.

Never use the crate as punishment.

 

[MyBuddy]

Post in thread 'Meet Melrae's Surprise Package !!' Meet Melrae's Surprise Package !!

It hasn't been that long ago for us with Annie and yet it takes a minute to remember everything! And I finally remembered that I did put a calming bed inside her puppy crate probably the first night or so. I just always thought sleeping on that hard plastic floor of a crate was so uncomfortable. And when she was fussing I decided to put that in there and she fell instantly to sleep. I mean, I know they're not human (well, almost! ) but I would think if you are laying on something soft and comfortable you would fall asleep. That's why she crawls into your lap and Falls instantly to sleep.

Of course you have to have your eyes on them constantly that they are not chewing on whatever is in there. I believe I had that in there until she moved up to a larger crate. And then in the one crate in my living area I bought the liner that is nearly indestructible. Somebody help me with the name I forgot it! But it has been wonderful! It's still in there and in one piece. It gives her something with a little padding to lay on and it's comfortable. I also have cameras around the house and one that I keep portable/movable aimed on her in her crate whenever I am gone for a length of time.


She's always been really good about being in a crate. And now if I am leaving the house I just told her to get in her crate and I give her a yummy treat.

Not a bone or anything that I have to worry about choking. Just something that she might not always get so its a real treat. I usually just tell her to get in her crate and she runs to the bed! And I throw in the treat and close the door. In this video, holding my camera, I missed the crate but it was right next to it and she got it and then I just closed the door and leave. My camera is on her so I can check her once in awhile but she is almost always sleeping. One time we were gone for about 4 hours. It was the longest she had been in there and she got up and was sitting up looking around. I think at one point even looked like she was pawing at the corner of the crate. But then she turned around and went right back to sleep.

In her puppy crate back in May

Back in August


And when she finally was allowed out of the crate when I went to the barn.


As far as the flank sucking, that always worried me. I read about that on our board years ago. Annie would look like she was biting at her legs or flank once in awhile and boy I intervened right away! I didn't want that to be a habit. So you doing what you're doing for Angel is good. And maybe finding something cushy for her to lay on would satisfy her. But it's a double-edged sword because you have to be sure that she's not chewing up something and eating it. It's give and take and a lot of watching.