An intruder breaks in...what would your dog do?

[Dobie Wan Knobie]

I've known some "untrained" dogs that would rip your arms and legs off if you walked into their house! Another factor is the fear factor...if you are in a state of fear the dog will sense that and will become more aggressive - if you are not in fear - like in the video - the dog will sense that too, and react accordingly. Training is how you overcome these issues. Its not a 100% science, but it is a factor. I've seen this many times.

 

[shadash]

I picked up my first Doberman at the pound and I'm almost positive whoever had her before me did some protection training. She was calm but had nerves of steel. She would give a look that said "don't test me" and both people and other dogs would back down. I'm absolutely certain that she would have jumped through a glass window if she thought I was in trouble.

One time around 9pm at night I was with my roommate who had a pitbull and in the backyard we heard both dogs going crazy. I thought they were fighting each other which was odd because in general they got along great. When we got outside to see what was happening my dog and the pitbull had a full size, mean as hell, raccoon cornered. Shadow (my doberman) was leading the charge and the pitbull was just barking and acting crazy without any direction. I called her off and she immediately let the raccoon go but you could see in her eyes that she was pissed that I made her do it.

(A little FYI for Iceman b/c they don't have them in the UK. Raccoons are very dangerous they might look cute with the bandit thing over their eyes but their claws are like razors and they generally attack in groups. I've seen a dog with it's entire sides slashed open when they tried to attack a raccoon.)

As a single guy having a dog like that was pretty awesome. Shadow was a superdog I still miss her even today. But when you get older and have kids a dog like that is a little harder to justify. Kids do crazy things with dogs and you need to have a very patient animal that's willing to put up with all the crap. While I'm pretty sure Shadow would do great with kids her intensity would be difficult.

Going back to this thread...

If someone tried to break into a house with Shadow in it, it wouldn't matter if I was home or not. She'd make it clear very quickly who's house it was.

 

[StarlightDobe]

Nexus wouldnt do anything Im pretty sure .. Bella on the other hand has shown protective instincts with me there, and also with people in the house and me not right by her. She is very protective of Nexus and chases dogs away from her all the time, and she has given warning to ppl approaching me as well. We have had ppl in the house for various things, workmen, grad party attendees and she has barked at all of them protectively. She has never had any training at all, it is pure instinct.

 

[MyBuddy]

The test is somewhat bogus.
Two are by themselves,one is with its owner.

My point,from the first post was the test is skewed.
Either test all 3 in equal circumstances or face criticism because of an unequal playing field.

I admit this is the first thing I thought. At least test all three equally. That made it unfair to me.

You don't think a dog would act differently if the owner is there vs not there?

What i am saying is, if the dog has the nerve and is trained, he/she should be able to do his/her job without the owner/trainer being present.

Sometimes I think the owner being present/not present is like a dog on a leash/not on a leash. Without the owner (or leash) some dogs are a bit more more intimidated. Some. Not saying all. But being alone in a home might make a difference to some. Just like a dog on a leash may be braver than once released.

 

[TunTavern]

I have been raising and owning (or maybe they owned me) Dobermans for many years. In those years it has been my honor to have owned two Sch III dogs and many that were just great dawgs. I have also owned a couple that were just the most miserable dogs anyone could have.

The test shown in that video is just completely irrelevant in the testing of a protection dog. Also some of the comments from the reporter show only that he doesn't know of what he speaks to. Everyone considering owning a protection dog needs to ask themselves if they are up to the task, are they willing to put there dog thru this very demanding training and in the end what is it really they are looking for? The training will then proceed depending on what there answers are to those questions. Some dogs are up to the task and some not.

As to the comments of the reporter. Do you want a protection dog that only responds to a verbal command? Think about that for a minute---What if you are laying there unconscious and unable to give a command, what does your dog do then?

For me personally I want a dog that will respond to my "every" command, and still be smart enough, trained well enough that he or she has the confidence to do the right thing if and when that need ever arises. Dogs like that are very rare...

Roland

 

[Doberman Gang]

For me personally I want a dog that will respond to my "every" command, and still be smart enough, trained well enough that he or she has the confidence to do the right thing if and when that need ever arises. Dogs like that are very rare...

Roland[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. The test is only good in showing that if a dog isn't trained in the sport of Schutzhund (IPO) it probably will not bite an intruder. I didn't personally like the fact that the intruder was in helper gear. (Scratch pants, sleeve and a stick) if you truly want to see what a dog will do if someone breaks in, then have them come in wearing what a thief would have on. Don't think to many people want to enter a house unprotected though. It really comes down to training and even trained sport dogs probably would not bite unless trained for that scenario. As stated above by Roland, very few dogs have that fight drive needed to defend a home with the owners gone. That is why confidence training is such a key role in bite sports and taught at an early age.

 

[DocReverto]

I tested this awhile back using two separate friends.

One friend came in with dogs out, me not in the house.
All dogs barked aggressively but kept their distance.

Second friend came in more aggressively while I was home. Cupcake ran away (although she is a whippet mix) Berlin barked but kept distance.

Raven and Crow charged him to the point where he could not get past the gate. Crow jumped up and left a nasty wound on his arm.

Im pretty happy with those results. I could care less if they protect while Im gone, since they are obviously in a crate.
Im more concerned when I am home, and they did there job perfectly.

Ive always seen very defensive reactions from Crow, not so much Raven, but they were both very equivalent.

This is one reason why I find the temperament testing to be quite silly. The dog is so out of its element, and for me personally I dont need or want a dog that feels the need to protect me in public. I conceal carry everywhere I go, and Ill be the one handling the problem. The only situation I worry is when Amber is home alone, and even then she has enough firepower to kill the entire city of Ferguson

 

[DreamValley]

Totally made-up story....Guard dog tips are JOKE!
"Rap on window to see if dogs barks"...hahahahaha. A smart guard dog would never bark at owner no matter what we do!
A small brainess yuppie bundle of love will do...

Dogs react to different people differently. Not a good choice of intruder...a dog trainer can read dogs.
Dogs trained in protection are not good pets. I doubt any of them would play with other dogs in the off-leash area or freely run around people.... and don't tell me about off-switch.
Decide what you want... a dog that protects your house or a dog that your family wants to share life with. Security systems are not so expensive

...and stop advertising protection sports for people who wants to have a family pet!

 

[Liberty & Justice]

I'd like to chime in here. As most of would want to think our dogs would protect their property, more than likely that would fail. We teach socialization so that we can walk in a park, accept other dogs that walk by, lick strangers that " Just want to pet them ", and always want to meet the " new guy/gal " that comes to the door. I personally have enough protection to surpass just a barking dog, as most of you should. But, many times especially recently at this new house we've had internet installed, fence quotes from companies, direct tv, neighbors dropping off pies/cakes ( so awesome ) and so forth, and rarely will either Liberty and Justice growl for protection, of course I'm home so it's a tad different because I do the greeting and so forth. However............. At our other home we had a friend stop by with another friend that I hadn't met yet. This guy was pretty large and had a puffy coat on. Justice wouldn't let the guy near me, in fact when I went down stairs for a minute Justice stood at the top of the stairs and waited for me ( odd ). Within a few minutes I heard Justice " Growling " in a very mean and intimidating tone, when I approached the stairs ( at the bottom ) Justice was in a full defensive position and was showing signs of aggression by stalking slowly forward, teeth bared at the guy on the other side of the door. Justice didn't like him at all !!! I've had that same episode on a lake walk on Lake Superior in Duluth. A gentleman of an odd demeanor came walking towards us, stumbling to some degree. Again Justice did the same thing. So to say he wouldn't protect me ? I don't know, honestly I hope to never find that out.

Liberty on the other hand, she isn't adapted as much as Justice, and this new city life 4 days a week has tested her limits. She is very, very agressive. Her hair stands up at most anyone walking by, she is the first to bark and give a warning to me. To say she might defend the house would probably be a " yes " if I had to take a strong somewhat educated guess. But again I'm hoping that never happens.

I added a Doberman at first to our family because I had always found them majestic, beautiful and yes " Protective " as I had gotten Justice mainly for Sophia. Since that plan has failed and she isn't around I can say that I'm proud that he's so friendly. I can take him anywhere. Such as today we went to our favorite doggy Store " Leashes and Leads " in Rochester, Mn. They have a 3 acre dog park with a small lake and a training course for agility. I thought " Hey no one is around " so I paid the small fee and let the two run for 2 hours. It was a great time, and low and behold who shows up an hour into it ? A blue Doberman !!! The lady explained that she was a 2 year old without proper socialization. Being she wans't but 60 lbs, I assured her that I trusted Justice immensely to ease her transition of proper socialization. And whalla I was right, Justice just played and played, the girl Blue Dobe was pretty protective over a ball, and lashed out a few times at Justice, but my best friend took it in stride, dodged the bite, and kept playing. Liberty on the other hand, I left her on the other side of the park that's fenced off, and she was going CRAZY !!! I felt bad for leaving her alone, but I just cannot trust her yet with other dogs, as she's just very agressive. Hair standing, non stop barking, aggressive. For the record we signed up for more training classes for the both of them, so I'll keep you all posted on that progress. At the home up north theres' no fear of seeing another dog, so it was a bit too easy for her up there, down here it's a different story and I need to prepare her properly.

Hope this gives some insight to our experiences with protection...........

 

[JanS]

Well last night hubby got called to work in the middle of the night. I guess our dogs were barking like crazy and I slept through everything. In my case even if they're letting us know I'm such a sound sleeper it wouldn't do much good. LOL

 

[FredC]

Well...you have answered your own question with your last remark..

Any dog can show protective aggression to a stranger but showing aggression is one thing, taking it to the next level and attacking when pushed is another.

Training is absolutely necessary to show the later behaviour, but the dog has to have that fight drive in him/her to start with..

Thats not entirely true, Fear is a strong motivator.....
Mars will take your freaking head off and i challenge anyone to come through my front door uninvited to prove me wrong.. (and if anyone is so certain untrained Dogs dont bite do it in a tshirt and jeans.) Although i do admit he is a huge sissy.. I can tell you unequivocally given the opportunity to fight or run Mars has chosen the fight every time.. Now here is where my speculation begins.. I know my girls won't bite a human unless provoked to do so, however i strongly believe that once Mars started in on an uninvited intruder pack mentality would kick in and the assailant would likely get hurt very badly.

 

[Aer]

Aer more then likely will give a warning bark and then run straight to my room, jump on my bed and just watch. I will say that when I gave her the command she did keep the meter reader away when he came in our backyard (miscommunication on my mom's part), she barked at him and wouldn't let him near where I was.

 

[JanS]

Della was just put to this test yesterday and she failed for a protection dog. Granted this was a hotel, but the hotel made a mistake gave someone else the room I was already checked into and gave her the key/card to get in. I was out getting something out of the vehicle or having a smoke (not sure which) but it was only a few minutes when the gal used her key and walked into my room with Della in there. A few minutes later I took Della out and the gal came up to me and said "oh you own the red Doberman" and told me what happened. She was carrying her gear in and was surprised when she saw Della sitting like a little statue on the bed and she said thank goodness she was a sweetheart. LOL

I guess the front desk voided out both our keys so I had to go get another to get back in and my ID and everything else was locked in the room, but they were on the phone with the big brass when I walked up to the desk they were talking about it. When I told them why I needed my room card reissued, she said "oh you're the mystery person with the Doberman" and apparently the gal who checked me in earlier that afternoon forgot to make a note that she moved me at check-in.

I know when I'm in the room like right now, Della is on the alert and acting like she would at home, alert to every sound, but perhaps this instance is because it's not her domain and there was no one in the room to protect.

Thank goodness she didn't react and nip since they were talking about it at the show today and said it's a city law that any dog that bites someone is automatically put in a 14 day quarantine regardless of the circumstances. To me it's like gun control in that respect.

BTW, it turns out the gal that was given the same room as me turned out to be one of the judges at the show today. When I walked by with Della at lunch time she said "there's my room mate". LOL

 

[Kitty's mom]

BTW, it turns out the gal that was given the same room as me turned out to be one of the judges at the show today. When I walked by with Della at lunch time she said "there's my room mate". LOL

Just a mini hijack... what show and how'd Della do?

 

[JanS]

I'll start a new thread when I get home, but she got BOB, best female and BOG. She didn't place in BIS but there was a lot of nice competition and she was not showing well for me by that time.

 

[TunTavern]

Fear is "Never" a motivator, it is a reaction to a situation. The dog that "Reacts" out of fear is always a very bad thing. You now have a completely uncontrolled dog acting on his or her own without training. The are unpredictable and unsafe, they are just as liable to attack the owner as they are the intruder. Never to you want a untrained dog to behave in this way, and to carry this a step further a dog that is prone to act out of fear is not a good candidate for a protection dog. In most cases a fear biter is such a risk that many should be put down.

In a protection dog we strive for a dog that will "ACT" and never "React" it is very hard and almost impossible to find a dog like that, but we do strive for that. When a dog "acts" as opposed to "reacting" he or she is a step ahead of the situation, when they "react" they are a step behind. In a dog that is untrained and reacting out of fear no one knows what they are going to do.

Roland

 

[Gelcoater]

Fear is "Never" a motivator, it is a reaction to a situation. The dog that "Reacts" out of fear is always a very bad thing. You now have a completely uncontrolled dog acting on his or her own without training. The are unpredictable and unsafe, they are just as liable to attack the owner as they are the intruder. Never to you want a untrained dog to behave in this way, and to carry this a step further a dog that is prone to act out of fear is not a good candidate for a protection dog. In most cases a fear biter is such a risk that many should be put down.

In a protection dog we strive for a dog that will "ACT" and never "React" it is very hard and almost impossible to find a dog like that, but we do strive for that. When a dog "acts" as opposed to "reacting" he or she is a step ahead of the situation, when they "react" they are a step behind. In a dog that is untrained and reacting out of fear no one knows what they are going to do.

Roland

An excellent post,but I admit I am a bit confused by it.My apology,I'm not sure I can word this right to convey my thoughts here.
How exactly should a protection dog act?
My perception of "protection" is reacting to a threat.Not reacting out of fear,but rather with confidence.
I am just unclear as to how a dog can differentiate friend from foe and act first if no threat has been presented?
If this makes any sense?

 

[Crutch & Ursa's Veteran]

 

[TunTavern]

Gelcoater, I am sure the fault with your not understanding lies with the author and not with you the reader. This is one of the cases were "I" know what I mean but didn't state it plainly enough to be understood.

The Act vs React statement is something I strive for in my training, it is a very hard thing to do and takes the right dog and trainer to accomplish. However protection work is all about the training. With the end goal being a "Trained" dog perfectly under control and a good neighbor and good friend in all circumstances. One that acts with confidence and is trained well enough to have that confidence. The act part of this comes through the training. If you are a good enough trainer and have a dog able to respond to that training, the dog through repetition will learn to Act in a given situation because of his or her training. Because of this training and the repetition the dog is Acting as opposed to Reacting.

I also would like to state here, that finding the right dog with the right aptitude and desire are critical in accomplishing the task and that is a well trained and focused protection dog. If there is a failing here after you have picked the best candidate possible it always lies with the trainer or the training.

Well I hope I did a better job that time, but after reading and rereading it a couple of times I am not sure I have explained the thoughts I have running through my head that provoked that response in the first place.

Roland

 

[kashi]

My two cents worth. As a kid my parents had a pair of dobes, they were never ever trained for attack work. The male, Buster, would pin any stranger to the wall at the gate (he was a very large boy and weighed over 110lbs), these were the days before locks were always locked. The pinning was him on his hind legs with a paw on either side of the strangers face /shoulders and staring at them. He would not move till my mom said down. Often there would be screaming, crying and pleading but Buster would not move. He was a super large boy and he intimidated almost everyone, even with his natural ears. One night my parents came home and found an intruder in a tree with the two dobes jumping at the base, they had pulled his shoes and socks off. He was pleading for them to call the dogs off. The other incident involved our domestic workers son arriving drunk at the house ringing the bell and screaming for money and his mother. Buster run at the gate launched himself halfway over the 6ft gate and started biting at the mans head, of course he left in a hurry never to return.

We had a pitbull as I have mentioned elsewhere and she too had no attack work but was very protective of her property she chased a guy onto the carport roof and was going crazy jumping at him, he was shouting and jumped back over the wall and ran off. The funny thing about the pitbull is she never barked she just wanted to bite. A good family friend had a staffie and a bull terrier, a guy jumped over his wall and was promptly sent back out leaving a trail of blood back over the wall and bloody hand and foot prints, they had no formal attack training either. Lex my GSDxRidgeback just didnt like certain people in the park(usually unsavoury riff raff) and would run after them barking, growling and nipping, I would have to call him back in. He often used to body block me from people as well.

It really depends on the dog and the relationship the dog has to you and to your property. I am not sure if the dobermanns having been born in the early 80's had anything to do with their temperament or not. As much as I believe in socialising your dog I do believe that if your dog is going to be expected to be protective of you, you shouldn't let other people handle him/her too much outside of family members and close friends. In South Africa and Namibia dogs are still expected to perform guardian work all the time.