2 months after diet

[Oh Little Oji]

It is known Euro showline are shown overweight, so sadly not a good comparison. Yes he will look heavier in certain areas but the standard between American and Euro is not actually all that different. NA males finish way before maturity so they look, well...not mature and not filled in.

He could look really sharp and crisp at 90-95lb by replacing what weight there is with muscle. Props again to you for putting in the effort and taking control of his health. I agree it's worrisome seeing those show males with that heavy of a body on the legs of a Doberman.

It's certainly true that the Euro show style is heavy and that that scene favors stocky, sturdy, thick Dobes; and sure, they might tend to show them a bit overweight. I can say that about the American show scene too – that they are often overweight, or not in what I'd call working shape. Most show dogs of medium or large size are soft and, let's say, luxurious in body condition.

The Euro show style, like we see in the above pics of Tahi Reme Max, seems to favor everything that says "power." They are shown leaning into the lead and panting (which makes the snout look more substantial).

I don't see that much relevance in noting that the Euro and NA standards are not very different. We need to look at the dogs themselves.

Some Dobes are just not built to have a tuck-up. This goes to what I was trying to say with my body type talk above.

Cato, @Josht87 's guy, has lots of muscle. I don't agree that he needs to replace fat with muscle. He's already got the muscle.

I don't think Cato should go down to 95 lbs., and certainly not 90 lbs.

 

[Josht87]

It's certainly true that the Euro show style is heavy and that that scene favors stocky, sturdy, thick Dobes; and sure, they might tend to show them a bit overweight. I can say that about the American show scene too – that they are often overweight, or not in what I'd call working shape. Most show dogs of medium or large size are soft and, let's say, luxurious in body condition.

The Euro show style, like we see in the above pics of Tahi Reme Max, seems to favor everything that says "power." They are shown leaning into the lead and panting (which makes the snout look more substantial).

I don't see that much relevance in noting that the Euro and NA standards are not very different. We need to look at the dogs themselves.

Some Dobes are just not built to have a tuck-up. This goes to what I was trying to say with my body type talk above.

Cato, @Josht87 's guy, has lots of muscle. I don't agree that he needs to replace fat with muscle. He's already got the muscle.

I don't think Cato should go down to 95 lbs., and certainly not 90 lbs.

My main concern with catos physique isn’t one of aesthetics but one of health.

I’m very conscious that Doberman’s don’t have the healthiest hearts and suffer from DCM so I wanted to be sure that I was keeping him at a weight that doesn’t put any unnecessary stress on his heart.

However, after reading a few papers and doing a bit of research it appears that DCM is far more prevalent in the American dobies than it is in the euros. So I’m not so sure how much of their heart problems is down to lifestyle and how much is down to a narrow gene pool.

I agree with you also though, he does have a LOT of muscle on him and certainly doesn’t need to build anymore. Maybe losing a few pounds of excess fat wouldn’t hurt though.

will give it a go at a slow and steady rate and see if he looks more lean or if he’s too skinny.

slowly but surely I’ll find his peak weight.

will keep you updated

 

[Rits]

I don't see that much relevance in noting that the Euro and NA standards are not very different. We need to look at the dogs themselves.

Because people think they are vastly different in standard and that this makes it acceptable to carry much more weight.

Here are some examples of showline euro dobes in a fit weight that show more of a tuck, even with the skin. It is possible. In the end, it is @Josht87 s boy and he can do whatever he likes! There's many people here with pet weight dobes and that's ok. I'm only commenting because feedback was asked and a more in tone boy is possible.

Note: not my pics or my dogs, shared on a public facebook group.


Credit: Katherine Palin


Credit: Whitney Smiley


Credit: John Walter, Doberman Planet

 

[Rits]

DCM is far more prevalent in the American dobies than it is in the euros.

I'd be interested in the research. From what I've read from people in the know, this is because echo and holter isn't as common in the EU as NA so it often goes undetected. DCM is unfortunately prevalent in all lines.

If you are concerned about his heart you can start by health testing. How old is he again? @strykerdobe is really informed on starting health testing on the heart young.

 

[Josht87]

I'd be interested in the research. From what I've read from people in the know, this is because echo and holter isn't as common in the EU as NA so it often goes undetected.

I don’t know about that, when I was doing my research before I bought Cato I looked at a lot of euro breeders and every single one of them had the sire, bitch, grand sire etc holter tested and Doppler tested etc many times. Of course there are some dodgy breeders around but the vast majority of the breeders I looked at had their DCM testing game down!

P.s when I get gone I’ll try and find the papers and send you a link.

 

[Rits]

I think a common issue for both types is the lack of CoD when it comes to the heart. I won't understand why breeders wouldn't want to do all they can to help the breed survive by reporting it.

 

[PhilT]

Just one point @josh87 to consider muscle weighs more than fat so don't go by the scales go by what pleases you for Catos look and yes DCM is a problem with the breed but I think its no worse in the USA than the UK so dietary requirements and regular heart checks very important my boy was 7yrs 8mths when diagnosed no sign of the problem before hand and his last medical check up was in the end of march 2020 and then diagnosed 20th July 2020 so make sure you get him checked regular and good luck he looks great

 

[Josht87]

Just one point @josh87 to consider muscle weighs more than fat so don't go by the scales go by what pleases you for Catos look and yes DCM is a problem with the breed but I think its no worse in the USA than the UK so dietary requirements and regular heart checks very important my boy was 7yrs 8mths when diagnosed no sign of the problem before hand and his last medical check up was in the end of march 2020 and then diagnosed 20th July 2020 so make sure you get him checked regular and good luck he looks great

Oh I’m sorry to hear that! How is he doing?

Yes Cato is only 2 and a half and the vet said I need to get him checked regularly from the age of 3. So I certainly shall be doing that.

I’m sure it makes no difference but just to clarify in case anyone is interested. I got Cato from Russia not from the U.K.

 

[Viemarangelrock]

I can see a definite improvement! Keep us updated on his further weight loss

 

[PhilT]

Most dobermans in the UK are the European breed unless you find breeders importing animals from the USA for for specific breeding and we also have animals brought in for people who want the cropped and docked look and thanks for asking my boy Kings health status is on a thread DCM progression

 

[Josht87]

I can see a definite improvement! Keep us updated on his further weight loss

Haha thank you!! I will do.

poor dog is gonna be hungry for a while.

 

[Pb57]

Take him down to 100 pounds and have your vet take a look at him and evaluate his body fat content. Should be no problem for any vet. He can tell you a lot more than pictures shown on the internet. Paul

 

[Josht87]

Take him down to 100 pounds and have your vet take a look at him and evaluate his body fat content. Should be no problem for any vet. He can tell you a lot more than pictures shown on the internet. Paul

Great idea!

 

[Ddski5]

Your dog dude...

You asked.

Still too heavy. Shed some weight, reduce health issues and make him happier- pretty simple.

 

[Josht87]

Your dog dude...

You asked.

Still too heavy. Shed some weight, reduce health issues and make him happier- pretty simple.

Haha I did indeed,

your comment about medieval horse blankets and jousting was very useful!

 

[Ddski5]

You don’t appreciate my mental imagery...hahaha. Figured you yanks in England would get that one.

I was trying to paint a picture. You take the layer off and you see tone and power of a true Thoroughbred working horse.

I thought I still had it but can’t find, I think @blacknrust or @Ravenbird has a comparative picture of a Doberman and a horse. The sleek, powerful tone physique of a Doberman always reminded me of a Thoroughbred horse.

Cheerio mate....

 

[NamVetJoe]

Just to compare body types. Tyson has a smallish build he weighs 78 lbs. Does not look thin but nice and healthy to me.

 

[JanS]

Our boy is all Euro and he maintains right around 93# (27.5" tall). He's a bit bigger boned but I still like to see some muscle and body definition.

 

[Pb57]

Jan the is a beautiful dog right there!

 

[jazzies mum]

Our boy is all Euro and he maintains right around 93# (27.5" tall). He's a bit bigger boned but I still like to see some muscle and body definition.
View attachment 111696

Albert pleases my eye. This looks like a fit Dobe to me, but I know some people prefer a heavier look.