11 month old nippy and bitey

[Renzo Red]

11 month old nippy and bitey ... he does not know how to settle! if I am sitting on the couch he comes over and starts biting my sides , hands etc hard! I grab him by the scruff and he turns and bites me harder .... he def thinks its a game! he is now 70 lbs and all I can do to protect myself is grab him and get him in the crate... he comes out and has calmed down until I am relaxing again on the couch. please advise ... this is my 6th doberman and I never dealt with this ever but I had all of them neutered at 6 months.. he is intact

 

[Js4fn]

Neutering won’t fix this behaviour crate should be his safe zone not punishment. Try to get his lip in his mouth so he bites himself then he’ll start to realize how hard he’s biting get up walk way ignore the game he wants to play

 

[LifeofRubie]

Please remember that even though he looks like he's an adult (albeit, perhaps a little gangly, yet), he's still got a lot of puppy brain, in there.

What do you do for mental/physical stimulation with him, during the day? He's is ready to chill when you are?

The best thing when they get nippy, IMO, is to basically ignore but redirect. If he's getting on the couch with you while getting nippy, start working on "OFF." (not that he can't then be nippy with four-on-the-floor so, again, redirect his energy).

Just sounds like it's a game to him (to echo was @Js4fn said). Wanting to engage with you is not a bad thing! But totally understand that being nippy is not a desirable trait.

 

[Ravenbird]

What he needs is clear boundaries, knowing what is allowed and what is not. If he knows basic obedience - sit, down, stay, go to place (bed on floor), use that as well as the word NO. As in "No, go lay down". That tells him clearly that biting is a NO, and then you give him something else to do instead. If he doesn't have these basic commands then start teaching that (separately, not when he's misbehaving). Most behavioral problems start because you think you told him "never do this to me" when what he heard is "you gotta go to your crate now, I don't feel like playing". The word NO is universal for "Stop what you are doing right now" and then reinforce it.

He's full of play and energy, this sounds like a game and he's making up the rules. Play games on your terms - use a tug, teach him "out" to let go and then give it back as a reward - this teaches him that by giving you control, you keep playing. Play fetch outside with a ball, again, only bringing it back to you makes the game continue by you throwing it again. The idea is that the fun continues only on your terms. Take him on long walks with lots of time to sniff but without getting out of control pulling or being disrespectful.... and/or do some active training in obedience or agility or nose work with a group. He needs mental stimulation as well as physical and he will be the best dog ever once he looks to you as the one that brings games to him, rather than him pushing you to play.

I got a really high drive pushy Doberman after having two that were totally easy-peasy. She taught me more than I thought I ever needed to know. @Ddski5 also had one that tested his learning curve. They are different and will take more work and more discipline, but they will absolutely make the best dog you ever had.

And I agree with what's stated above: this is nothing to do with being intact and yes he still has a puppy brain and will do some uncalled for things - you are officially entering the Doberteens.

 

[Fladobe]

Learned something today! Simple technique , a judo move on a pup...better than shoving a toy in their mouth

Neutering won’t fix this behaviour crate should be his safe zone not punishment. Try to get his lip in his mouth so he bites himself then he’ll start to realize how hard he’s biting get up walk way ignore the game he wants to play

 

[JanS]

I agree with the others; especially the part about not letting him up on the couch if he's going to be a brat. Furniture is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Ddski5]

Well…you are past teething, so that’s not it.

You have your self a Doberman that is yearning for stimulation. If you don’t stimulate him, then he will find a way to stim himself. Being locked in a crate just because he doesn’t know any better is not fair and really not his fault. Do you do daily training or stimulation with him to drain his physical and mental energies?

You should have basic obedience already trained at 11months and if you have not, then you better start or Renzo Red is going to continue on with his shenanigans. Like I said, he just looking to feed his hunger for stimulation.

Not all Dobermans are the same. My 1st Doberman was a fricking manic beast that had to be drained daily. He was literally go go go all the time. My current Doberman has a wonderful on and off button and will chill/relax on command.

You are not going to change Renzo Red into a passive Doberman but what you can do is redirect his energy with training. I worked all day long, came home tired and did 1 hour of training everyday 7 days a week with obedience commands. I was determined that mine was not going to become a crackhead Doberman. Took a lot of work, energy, time, patience and discipline but we did it. No I did not curb him of his crazy antics but what I did do was make disciplined boundaries through the obedience training.

BTW…we did not train for entire 60mins. Always started with some play first to get him happy then eased the obedience training in there for 30 mins and then finished on a good note and a little more play.

You can do it…just have to get your arse out there and teach/train him.

Good luck.

 

[BGpa]

When we took Bonnie at 5 months to get help on BO training for US and her, at the place we got help with a big strong GSD rescue two dogs back, they recommended

1. at least an hour a day of exercise- walk,
and
2. another period of play/interaction/training mixed in of 30 min.

And
3. we found Bonnie had another active period we filled with play and chew toys and she conked after...boom like a tired toddler lights out.

If you can maintain a regular schedule you'll find the rest periods in between become natural, and you can use the crate to reinforce that, inc open door covered with a blanket- its their den where they go to switch off the first ever trainer told me- a dog psychologist and breeder, and behavioral trainer 30 years ago. Its not punishment, its the refuge.

If you cant walk, jog, bike or hike trails at least an hour a day, hire help or think hard on what you want...a PITA or a happy dog.
A tired dog is a happy dog..

This is the advice from the K9 trainer we used: 40 years of experience training, boarding LEO k9s, inc dobes back in the day and now training GSDs, Mals, and other working dogs for several LEAs and Border Patrol. PM and I'll send a link.

Last time I was there they were training and had some rotties and field labs for executive family type clients, but I dont want to misrepresent or appear to be selling...
just an example of where this advice came from...not some rando anon old fart on the innertubes: me.

Its possible this is what you may need help with if this dog is out of your league despite many dobes in past...ask the working line owners and trainers here for other names of trainers in your area who know dobes or how to find one...

One big tip was go to different places, esp with sniffies and you will get twice the bang -an hour of brainwork is equal to an hour of play.

If you have had these dogs before you know this is a LOT but its worth it. You just have one on the "needs more end of spectrum.

Remember what trainers say- dogs go thru periods of "remission" or critical learning periods...they forget or regress a bit...be patient go back to something easier they know and praise and work that.

search archives here or elsewhere, you'll see its not your fault. You just have to back up to the basics, and retrain in effect, until they get back on track.

If the basics WERE weak, then just go back to the beginning. Be creative, try different things. Not every dog learns the same so look for what does turn on the lightbulb and use that.

These dogs WILL train you, if you are not consistent. Try not to let frustration rule you, take a deep breath, find the center of calm...And mostly HAVE FUN!

Its never perfect, just keep at it and suddenly at 2 years in girls and (I read 3 in goofy big boys) that their brains come in and you have the best dog ever!

Amiright? Experts here please give thumbs up and correct if I am wrong...
I am not a trainer so take with handful of salt.

Only 2 girls for me so far but this has worked with both and a handful of other strong stubborn breeds: listen to the dog in front of you, apply kindness, love, patience
Clear communication and boundaries, consistency...treats for incremental inprivements...
And dont forget to give yourself affirmation and rewards too for all your hard work!

 

[GennyB]

if I am sitting on the couch he comes over and starts biting my sides , hands etc hard!

That's when I would grab the gear to have a quick training session. I find it does 2 things, first distract from biting and tells him I'm in charge here.
I would also start working with the command "leave it". Start with short and sweet little moments of a treat in your hand not far from his face. Say leave it and close your hand if he tries. After he leaves it quickly free him or whatever release word you use. He will quickly learn some impulse/self control.

 

[Renzo Red]

Neutering won’t fix this behaviour crate should be his safe zone not punishment. Try to get his lip in his mouth so he bites himself then he’ll start to realize how hard he’s biting get up walk way ignore the game he wants to play

I do all of that ... the walking away will stop him but when I have a room full of guests we are in the middle of dinner it is hard .. I put him behind a gate and he demand barks. when I put him in the crate he barks but after a few minutes he passes out.. I believe it is when he is overtired

 

[Renzo Red]

Please remember that even though he looks like he's an adult (albeit, perhaps a little gangly, yet), he's still got a lot of puppy brain, in there.

What do you do for mental/physical stimulation with him, during the day? He's is ready to chill when you are?

The best thing when they get nippy, IMO, is to basically ignore but redirect. If he's getting on the couch with you while getting nippy, start working on "OFF." (not that he can't then be nippy with four-on-the-floor so, again, redirect his energy).

Just sounds like it's a game to him (to echo was @Js4fn said). Wanting to engage with you is not a bad thing! But totally understand that being nippy is not a desirable trait.

he gets a long walk in the morning , we train basic obedience 15 minutes 2x a day, he has frozen kongs, sniff matt, we play fetch which turns into him jumping and biting me when hes tired... he is def still puppy brain but never had one so mouthy.

 

[Renzo Red]

What he needs is clear boundaries, knowing what is allowed and what is not. If he knows basic obedience - sit, down, stay, go to place (bed on floor), use that as well as the word NO. As in "No, go lay down". That tells him clearly that biting is a NO, and then you give him something else to do instead. If he doesn't have these basic commands then start teaching that (separately, not when he's misbehaving). Most behavioral problems start because you think you told him "never do this to me" when what he heard is "you gotta go to your crate now, I don't feel like playing". The word NO is universal for "Stop what you are doing right now" and then reinforce it.

He's full of play and energy, this sounds like a game and he's making up the rules. Play games on your terms - use a tug, teach him "out" to let go and then give it back as a reward - this teaches him that by giving you control, you keep playing. Play fetch outside with a ball, again, only bringing it back to you makes the game continue by you throwing it again. The idea is that the fun continues only on your terms. Take him on long walks with lots of time to sniff but without getting out of control pulling or being disrespectful.... and/or do some active training in obedience or agility or nose work with a group. He needs mental stimulation as well as physical and he will be the best dog ever once he looks to you as the one that brings games to him, rather than him pushing you to play.

I got a really high drive pushy Doberman after having two that were totally easy-peasy. She taught me more than I thought I ever needed to know. @Ddski5 also had one that tested his learning curve. They are different and will take more work and more discipline, but they will absolutely make the best dog you ever had.

And I agree with what's stated above: this is nothing to do with being intact and yes he still has a puppy brain and will do some uncalled for things - you are officially entering the Doberteens.

when I say place he will go to his place or sit and lie down but if he is over the threshold he hears nothing.... today I put him in the crate for two long naps and no biting at all ... I think I need to force his naps before he gets tired I have been tryin to wear him out than nap and I see that is not the way to do it... we do tug and he loves it, he knows drop it. but if I play for more than five minutes he grabs my hands and starts tugging ...

 

[Renzo Red]

Well…you are past teething, so that’s not it.

You have your self a Doberman that is yearning for stimulation. If you don’t stimulate him, then he will find a way to stim himself. Being locked in a crate just because he doesn’t know any better is not fair and really not his fault. Do you do daily training or stimulation with him to drain his physical and mental energies?

You should have basic obedience already trained at 11months and if you have not, then you better start or Renzo Red is going to continue on with his shenanigans. Like I said, he just looking to feed his hunger for stimulation.

Not all Dobermans are the same. My 1st Doberman was a fricking manic beast that had to be drained daily. He was literally go go go all the time. My current Doberman has a wonderful on and off button and will chill/relax on command.

You are not going to change Renzo Red into a passive Doberman but what you can do is redirect his energy with training. I worked all day long, came home tired and did 1 hour of training everyday 7 days a week with obedience commands. I was determined that mine was not going to become a crackhead Doberman. Took a lot of work, energy, time, patience and discipline but we did it. No I did not curb him of his crazy antics but what I did do was make disciplined boundaries through the obedience training.

BTW…we did not train for entire 60mins. Always started with some play first to get him happy then eased the obedience training in there for 30 mins and then finished on a good note and a little more play.

You can do it…just have to get your arse out there and teach/train him.

Good luck.

yes everyone is so impressed with Renzo when it comes to his obedience training... he knows place, sit, stay, come, protect which is going between my legs, he can weave my legs, he can heel , he knows watch me, leave it.... but it all goes out the window when he passes a threshold . he acts like an over tired toddler... when people enter my home he is calm and goes to his place but once they are settled he comes over and shoves his nose in their crotch and starts arousal biting and barking to play... we train 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes evening ... he is a very unique dog in that he will watch a show on tv for 30 minutes his favorite is
Charlotte's web with the pig and he watchs Beckman training all day... he is very smart. he needs to play with other dogs but because he's intact they kicked him out of daycare at 7 months ...

When we took Bonnie at 5 months to get help on BO training for US and her, at the place we got help with a big strong GSD rescue two dogs back, they recommended

1. at least an hour a day of exercise- walk,
and
2. another period of play/interaction/training mixed in of 30 min.

And
3. we found Bonnie had another active period we filled with play and chew toys and she conked after...boom like a tired toddler lights out.

If you can maintain a regular schedule you'll find the rest periods in between become natural, and you can use the crate to reinforce that, inc open door covered with a blanket- its their den where they go to switch off the first ever trainer told me- a dog psychologist and breeder, and behavioral trainer 30 years ago. Its not punishment, its the refuge.

If you cant walk, jog, bike or hike trails at least an hour a day, hire help or think hard on what you want...a PITA or a happy dog.
A tired dog is a happy dog..

This is the advice from the K9 trainer we used: 40 years of experience training, boarding LEO k9s, inc dobes back in the day and now training GSDs, Mals, and other working dogs for several LEAs and Border Patrol. PM and I'll send a link.

Last time I was there they were training and had some rotties and field labs for executive family type clients, but I dont want to misrepresent or appear to be selling...
just an example of where this advice came from...not some rando anon old fart on the innertubes: me.

Its possible this is what you may need help with if this dog is out of your league despite many dobes in past...ask the working line owners and trainers here for other names of trainers in your area who know dobes or how to find one...

One big tip was go to different places, esp with sniffies and you will get twice the bang -an hour of brainwork is equal to an hour of play.

If you have had these dogs before you know this is a LOT but its worth it. You just have one on the "needs more end of spectrum.

Remember what trainers say- dogs go thru periods of "remission" or critical learning periods...they forget or regress a bit...be patient go back to something easier they know and praise and work that.

search archives here or elsewhere, you'll see its not your fault. You just have to back up to the basics, and retrain in effect, until they get back on track.

If the basics WERE weak, then just go back to the beginning. Be creative, try different things. Not every dog learns the same so look for what does turn on the lightbulb and use that.

These dogs WILL train you, if you are not consistent. Try not to let frustration rule you, take a deep breath, find the center of calm...And mostly HAVE FUN!

Its never perfect, just keep at it and suddenly at 2 years in girls and (I read 3 in goofy big boys) that their brains come in and you have the best dog ever!

Amiright? Experts here please give thumbs up and correct if I am wrong...
I am not a trainer so take with handful of salt.

Only 2 girls for me so far but this has worked with both and a handful of other strong stubborn breeds: listen to the dog in front of you, apply kindness, love, patience
Clear communication and boundaries, consistency...treats for incremental inprivements...
And dont forget to give yourself affirmation and rewards too for all your hard work!

Thank you yes I am a Realtor so I am home with him a lot, we walk, hike, train etc sometimes I think maybe I do too much with him and he is over stimulated. he loves his crate and does go in there on his own to nap but I must leave the room or he does not shut down is what I am finding.

 

[Renzo Red]

That's when I would grab the gear to have a quick training session. I find it does 2 things, first distract from biting and tells him I'm in charge here.
I would also start working with the command "leave it". Start with short and sweet little moments of a treat in your hand not far from his face. Say leave it and close your hand if he tries. After he leaves it quickly free him or whatever release word you use. He will quickly learn some impulse/self control.

he knows leave it and when I bring out a treat he is ready to train but come on guys i'm talking its 9:30 in the evening i've been up since our first walk at 6:30 am and I am exhausted it is time to settle and he will not! it's not normal he does not cuddle he wants to bite ... remember he missed the socialization stage ... he was neglected and left in a garage the first 4 months with 5 liter mates no human communication just one another. when I got him at 4 months you could not touch him he did not like to be handled ... now when he falls asleep I can cuddle him but he does not just come sit by you and let you pet him .... did i leave out his past on this thread? he was a rescue he had missing hair and very under weight had parasites from eating his feces

 

[Renzo Red]

Thank you for all of your input, I will try to implement some of these suggestions .... you are all so helpful ... my lil Renzo Red is a smart, sweet yet spicy lil pup but I will get this right ... I have not ever given up on any of my rescues.

 

[Two Dobes]

The photo breaks my heart....thank God you have him! It sounds as though you are certainly doing all the right things...it may just take longer with his poor history....I believe there is an amazing boy in there! God bless you for giving him your all

 

[BGpa]

he knows leave it and when I bring out a treat he is ready to train but come on guys i'm talking its 9:30 in the evening i've been up since our first walk at 6:30 am and I am exhausted it is time to settle and he will not! it's not normal he does not cuddle he wants to bite ... remember he missed the socialization stage ... he was neglected and left in a garage the first 4 months with 5 liter mates no human communication just one another. when I got him at 4 months you could not touch him he did not like to be handled ... now when he falls asleep I can cuddle him but he does not just come sit by you and let you pet him .... did i leave out his past on this thread? he was a rescue he had missing hair and very under weight had parasites from eating his feces View attachment 161647

Dont worry. You seem to be doing the right things, from my limited exoerience and what I read.

You are setting limits going back to no bite he did not get from mom or rowdy litter mates. That is including no back talk.
Ignore it, reward when he is quiet.

Go read some of @Ladydi posts on puppy training in Dogs, Inc, "four on floor", etc. There are many books that talk about early socialization so you can go back to basics that way. Its not too late yet.

Be consistent on every command, first time. Or he is training you, pushing boundaries in normal dober term stage.

On sleep protocol, set consistent nap and bedtime routines. This is confidence building, and helps build trust in you to make up for what was missing while young.

To get your sleep but to help his separation anxiety, Try moving crate to bedroom temporarily, next to bed, close door and put a towel or blanket over top so its like a nice dark den, but he can still and smell you, vs letting him climb in bed.

As a big intact male he will want to claim you, and you will not want to let him sleep in bed if you want a love life...

(Advice from 3 gen working dobe breeder/trainer in K9 and Executive) Protection.)

 

[Doc]

WOW ! Some VERY good advice above

One thing is , Dobermans not only need attention -- They demand it = to me , the biting is what he did with his siblings to get them to engage with them to play -- you are taking they place right now .

Every dog needs to chill = you need your space , The best thing I have ever used teaching chill is the " Sit on the dog " training - you don't sit on the dog , but you sit on the leash , Here is how I did it , I did this when I was working on the computer , put his lead on and hooked him up , put him in a down next to the chair , sat down on his lead and then start the clock , you can use whatever time you want to start with , I started with 15 minutes , he had to stay down for that amount of time , the first time , it took me over an hour and a half before he stayed down for that 15 minutes , he gets up , the clock starts over , by the end of the week , he had no problem staying down for 45 minutes - that was my time , his chill time .

Now Little one ( The Warrior Princess ) was a different story , we did the sit on the dog at home , yet at Rally Practice or OB practice she would get nervous , stand , lay down , want to jump on my lap . the head trainer said Ken , she needs to chill , zi told her I was working on that at home , but at home I was missing one BIG thing , there was just Mr. Business there , at practice there may be 10 to 20 other dogs , So I got one of my famous brainstorm ideas and when we went to OB practice , we just went it and sat down , I put her in a down / stay and we just watched all the other dogs go by / practice , the owner / trainer looked over at me and just smiled , she knew what I was doing , the other trainer came over and said you 2 better jump in and join us for some training , I told her we are training , she turned and walked off , for an hour we just sat there and byt the end of class , I had a chilled Dober girl , I have done this several time with her to get her ready for trials .

There were times we went to the little park near us , and just sat and watched people walk by , that can be a hard thing but it works

One last thing We tend to train all day long , not hard training , like I have them to sit / stay while I feed them . some time next to there bowls , sometimes 20 feet away , just simple things , then at class I tend to only work her no more than an half hour or so , Evie girl can get bored doing the same thing over and over . In Rally we all tend to train up - but it never hurts to drop back down to keep commands sharp .

Best of luck

AND BGpa , that was an outstanding post you put up

 

[Ravenbird]

Thank you for all of your input, I will try to implement some of these suggestions .... you are all so helpful ... my lil Renzo Red is a smart, sweet yet spicy lil pup but I will get this right ... I have not ever given up on any of my rescues.

Your replies to all the answers here reveal that you very much know what you are doing, but simply have an extremely smart dog with a difficult-to-operate off switch. I thought I knew what I was doing until I got my current dog, she was not bitey, but easily overstimulated and could not turn off. She was born barking, pushy and independent and for 2 years her middle name was "make me". As always, we think they need more things to wear them out, but actually they need more rest. I was WAY late learning this. It was a hard learning curve for me, and looking back the one thing I wish I'd done is forced (crated) rest. Since your answers indicate that's what you're doing and it seems to be working, I think you're on the right path for sure. Mine also was not cuddly, at all. She wanted action and more action and if I even gently petted her while sleeping she would wake up and be ready to play, on her feet and zooming within seconds. I'm the only person I know who had to use a prong collar to get a dog from the bedroom to the kitchen upon rising because she would run down the (tile floor) hallway 90 mph. Like yours, mine was well trained, but her brain went into overdrive so fast and then she was deaf to my words. And I'll say again, these difficult puppies will become the very best thing that ever happened to you.

 

[Doc]

Sounds like my little girl Ravenbird , LOL the only difference was little one had no on / off switch , it wasn't even offered as an option on her make and model , lol

The thing I learned was with these kind of dogs you need to think outside the box , what had worked on many others sure didn't work with her

I had to use not a loud voice but a stern voice with her , in training telling her just want I want - no story telling , Evie - sit , and that is with everything we train on .

She has made me a lot better trainer --for sure .

Like BG said -- train the dog in front of you and the best part ??? Have fun