Katyusha and Zastava

[Katyusharocket]

I checked in on the girls today about an hour after I got to work. This is what I found, and it warmed my heart immensely to see it.
Anyone's thoughts on whether we are out of the woods on same sex aggression? My gut told me when I saw this, that I can relax about it now.

 

[MichiH]

It's been a hot 5 days here. Last Saturday morning I was washing an accident (now pretty sure it was Zastava's) off of my welcome mat, and, well, found a small amount of ingested vinyl floor tile in it. Ok. Observe. She got loose and I mean pooping puddles loose. Then Sunday, Katyusha also went loose, same way, pooping puddles. Katy completely recovered by Tuesday, The same day, Z showed signs that she might recover but then went full on backwards, pooping blood, really not what you want to see, so I took a stool sample in from her today, and no bacteria was found, but the vet determined that her gut balance was clearly out of whack. I got sent home with an oral med for her in a syringe (DiaGel by Van Beek Natural Science), and told to feed her only chicken and rice for 5 days. Has anyone tried the DiaGel? I will be sharing my experience with it here as the next 5 days of bland food and the transition back to Kibble occurs over the following 5 days. I am gonna tag @MichiH and Pepper here just so they can see the review and who knows, maybe could help some others. Primary use is listed as "give syringe to dog at time of digestive upset, a second syringe may be used if necessary" pre-stress use is listed as "give a syringe 2 hours prior to stress-induced event"

Just seeing this now, that’s unfriendly stressful and I am happy things got better. I haven’t heard of the DiaGel before and it worked quickly?

 

[MichiH]

My thoughts on the DiaGel.
Yesterday Zastava was pooping like the jet setting on a garden hose. 26 hours ago I gave her the DiaGel. (5 pm yesterday evening). She woke me to go outside at 2 AM this morning, she pooped but it was not solid. It wasn't liquid, though, either. She did not poop again until 6 pm, 16 hours later, and her poop was actually solid. I think she is well on her way. It's hard to find words about how happy I was to pick up solid poop from this girl. I think I will ask the clinic if I may buy a dose just to keep in the drawer here at home. The stuff seems to work, and the dose I bought yesterday doesn't expire till may of 2028, so pretty shelf-stable.

Wise doctor.
Right medication
chicken and rice diet
Proviable-FORTE probiotic by Nutramax
26 hours.

So far it looks like it is coming back together nicely.

Glad things got better for you all! I can empathize with you on the loose/ bloody stool, it is frightening. I also totally understand “picking up solid stool” the suspense as the beginning of - when they go potty… pit in the stomach and how exciting and relieving to see a solid stool. I get it.
Happy all is well!!!

 

[Katyusharocket]

Just seeing this now, that’s unfriendly stressful and I am happy things got better. I haven’t heard of the DiaGel before and it worked quickly?

Thanks! Yes, I am a big fan of the Diagel. It cost me roughly $35 which felt a little steep for a tiny syringe of it at the time, but the next day I knew it had been money well spent. As I recall, the ingredient list was pretty natural too, nothing harsh. I would recommend it to a friend.

 

[Katyusharocket]

It cost me roughly $35 which felt a little steep for a tiny syringe of it at the time

@MichiH I will add that I bought Diagel from my vet clinic, as recommended by the doctor who saw her for this episode. I didn't realize until i just now looked for it, that it didn't require a prescription, and can be bought from Amazon.

 

[Ddski5]

I checked in on the girls today about an hour after I got to work. This is what I found, and it warmed my heart immensely to see it.View attachment 151453
Anyone's thoughts on whether we are out of the woods on same sex aggression? My gut told me when I saw this, that I can relax about it now.

I don’t think there is a timeline or a phase out period of SSA. From my readings, it can happen anytime unexpectedly…
And that may be a documented reason to explain or educate on when/why it does happen. It happens, folks see it happen and then feel the need to document it so as to educate.

But what about the folks that have same sex Dobermans and say they’ve never seen the likes or had any issues whatsoever?

Idk…I can only think there is a potential for it to happen so it would always be in my mind and I would be looking for tell tale signs as the situation may ramp up.

 

[Katyusharocket]

I don’t think there is a timeline or a phase out period of SSA. From my readings, it can happen anytime unexpectedly…

Well shoot. I was hoping there would be a period in life when, if ya haven't seen it, you're not going to.

Idk…I can only think there is a potential for it to happen so it would always be in my mind and I would be looking for tell tale signs as the situation may ramp up.

This is sound advice, to always be looking out for the potential. I did buy enough cameras to be able to see them in any part of the house that they have access to, and I look in A LOT!

They do have disagreements. It's when Zastava is relentlessly pestering Katyusha to play. Often Katyusha will want to play, and I think she mostly enjoys Zastava's company. Once Katyusha has had enough, or isn't in the mood, she bites Zastava, and Zastava NEVER wins those. They only wrestle around when I am home, I never see it on cams.

 

[Ddski5]

I am sure you know this already…

The info I’ve read are different instances from both angles so there is not always a certain aggressor.
- the younger grows into maturity and starts to demand more and expects the older matriarch to relinquish the crown.
- the older ages and becomes more territorial and guards possessions/space.
- the older can start having physiological and neurological changes: hyper/hypo thyroid

 

[JanS]

Anyone's thoughts on whether we are out of the woods on same sex aggression?

Thankfully we've never had to deal with it but from what I've heard, it usually doesn't start until they've both reached full maturity. I would probably trust Olive with another female, depending on the other female. I'm almost positive another male would be out of the question with Elroy.

 

[Katyusharocket]

I am sure you know this already…

The info I’ve read are different instances from both angles so there is not always a certain aggressor.
- the younger grows into maturity and starts to demand more and expects the older matriarch to relinquish the crown.
- the older ages and becomes more territorial and guards possessions/space.
- the older can start having physiological and neurological changes: hyper/hypo thyroid

I hadn't known this, so I want to thank you for putting it out there in 3 quick bullet points. This is a good list to watch for.

I'm almost positive another male would be out of the question with Elroy.

I knew this would be the case with Toby, there was no way he would have accepted a new male in the house. He and Thor did fine, but once Thor was gone, I knew any other male would be out of the question.

 

[LucyXIII]

I'm almost positive another male would be out of the question with Elroy.

How does he show you this?

 

[JanS]

How does he show you this?

He growls and lets them know to stay out of his space. He's a big mama's boy and very protective of me so I'm sure that's part of it.

 

[Ravenbird]

I think with your awareness and close watching you will be able to see it coming if it does. @Ddski5 outlined it well. The key being Fully Mature and for Z that would mean between 1 and 3 years. Since at this point K always wins and Z clearly concedes when put in her place the change I'd keep my eye out for is if in the next year or so Z begins to push back. Asha is clearly boss over Reckless and has been since arriving here. Now Reckless is 10 and Asha is 5 there are never fights because R absolutely won't push Asha, ever. So nothing to fight about. It's when you have two who both want to be Queen is when trouble begins. I personally feel like your two girls are naturally good natured and not too bossy or dominant in daily life and as long as you are aware of changes your'll be fine.

 

[Rits]

Males are the ones you almost always have to worry about SSA. For them its not an if but when 99% of the time. Thats why it simply isnt worth housing a male doberman with another male in the home. We're trying to set them up for success and not have to be returned from the home they are used to or worse.

Females its more likely to happen with two dominate females.

As you know, don't leave any toys or valuable objects out if they are not crated when away from home. If they often get worked up seeing triggers outside a window, I would be hesitant to leave both out at the same time, personally. That is usually when dog fights start if its not over a high value toy or bone due to frustration of not being able to get to the trigger.

 

[Katyusharocket]

Zastava has developed a few patches of rash as she is coming out of her heat. I took her in and they charged me $5 (which I'm not complaining about, I thought that was a good deal for tying up a vet tech for 10 minutes) to rule out ringworm and said that if new patches appear, to let them know. So last night I saw her licking at the inside of her back leg, sure enough, new patch. She's on Bravecto, which claims to protect against mites, so it shouldn't be that. She goes in Tuesday to see her vet. I'm a little worried at this point that this could turn into a lifelong battle with allergies. But maybe her heat cycle messed with her hormones enough to cause it too? Or she stressed about it enough to develop this rash? Hoping to learn more Tuesday. She doesn't bother with them tons, so I am assuming her discomfort level is relatively low from them but she does look rough from a "me being vein" standpoint.

 

[JanS]

I'm a little worried at this point that this could turn into a lifelong battle with allergies. But maybe her heat cycle messed with her hormones enough to cause it too?

I know some dogs blow their coats after having pups so maybe it is a hormone related thing?

It also wouldn't hurt to have her thyroid tested since that can cause stuff like that can cause it too. If your vet does OFA thyroid testing it wouldn't hurt to have it done since you might plan to breed her sometime down the road so you have a start on the health testing.

 

[Katyusharocket]

It also wouldn't hurt to have her thyroid tested since that can cause stuff like that can cause it too. If your vet does OFA thyroid testing it wouldn't hurt to have it done since you might plan to breed her sometime down the road so you have a start on the health testing.

That is a great point, and money well spent for the test at this point, for 2 reasons. I will be sure to ask for one if they don't recommend it.

I know some dogs blow their coats after having pups so maybe it is a hormone related thing?

I'm hoping that is all this is, but coming to the conclusion will take a few heat cycles, I suppose.

 

[MichiH]

Zastava has developed a few patches of rash as she is coming out of her heat. I took her in and they charged me $5 (which I'm not complaining about, I thought that was a good deal for tying up a vet tech for 10 minutes) to rule out ringworm and said that if new patches appear, to let them know. So last night I saw her licking at the inside of her back leg, sure enough, new patch. She's on Bravecto, which claims to protect against mites, so it shouldn't be that. She goes in Tuesday to see her vet. I'm a little worried at this point that this could turn into a lifelong battle with allergies. But maybe her heat cycle messed with her hormones enough to cause it too? Or she stressed about it enough to develop this rash? Hoping to learn more Tuesday. She doesn't bother with them tons, so I am assuming her discomfort level is relatively low from them but she does look rough from a "me being vein" standpoint.

What do they look like? Pepper has some patches too. Recent on her rust butt. Also, coming out of her heat.

 

[JanS]

since that can cause stuff like that can cause it too.

LOL can you tell I lost my train of thought in the middle of that sentence?

money well spent for the test at this point, for 2 reasons.

I already have Olive set for hers when she's spayed and have the OFA form filled out to bring along.

 

[Katyusharocket]

What do they look like?

So here are the first two as of writing this. The one further from her spine formed first, then the adjacent one formed a couple days later. They start with bumps that are similar to pimples, but without the pus. And those bumps eventually scab over after they give her the bald patches. The first one formed roughly 10 days back. I would say these are on the healing side at this point.
This is the one I saw her licking on last night, excuse the fact thst to get a good pic out of the shadow, her junk got photographed with it, but I wanted something to show the vet tech that helped me rule out ringworm. So this is what it looks like when they're first forming.
Now I've noticed some bumps under her fur in a few other places this evening, but no hair loss, and the ones I noticed this evening seem more like rouge ones, not a cluster of 4 or 5.

LOL can you tell I lost my train of thought in the middle of that sentence?

Didn't even notice till you pointed it out. Maybe both our trains of thought are similarly derailed