Which health test to look for when selecting a breeder / puppy

[Spoonito]

Hi All,

Didn't know if this was better asked here or in the breeder section. I've noticed that when looking through breeder sites, etc. that many of the Sire / Dam aren't tested for the same health screenings. Is this common? Are there certain health problems that affect males and females differently (i.e. how common or how severe) that there is less of a concern to test for it? I read that the Blue and Isabella have more skin related health issues, and stay away from all black and albino (no litters with WZ in registration). Which litters should I be walking away from if the Sire / Dam are missing "xxxx" health test. Based on my initial research I'm guessing the standard tests and results I should be looking for are

DCM 1&2 (preferred clear, is P Hetero ok?)
DM (clear)
vWD (preferred clear, possibly carrier as long as both parents aren't a carrier)
Hips / Elbow (preferred Good or Excellent)
Echo / Holter (normal as recent as possible, within 6mo if possible)
Thyroid (normal)
Eyes (normal)
Dentition (full with all teeth)

Are there others that I should be seeing if the breeder has testing for? Is the above list a wish to have and some of them are not necessary but good to know? If they have been tested using Embark would that tell me everything I need to know for general health (diseases)? I've seen that listed and I've also just seen "DNA testing" on other Sire / Dams.


Thanks.

 

[Panama]

First & foremost... health & temperament.
If all they have done is Embark....keep looking

Research the breeding pair's sire & dam as well as full & half siblings, not just the breeding pair.

Both the sire & dam should be exceptional representatives of the breed physically (structure) & mentally.

Something that most people looking for a pet/companion don't think is all that important, but is (to me)........ Other then breeding their dog(s), what are they doing with them?

 

[Ravenbird]

That's a real good start that you listed. Echo/Holter is usually acceptable if done once a year, as it's pretty expensive to do, but some breeders do it when they know they are about do a breeding so more recent is better. It only tests the current heart condition not the future. Even if you want only a companion dog, I'd still suggest a breeder who titles their dogs in something. It doesn't have to be a champion in the show ring, but if they get even a CGC or Novice Obedience or Barn Hunt, it shows they train their dogs and spend time doing something with them besides breeding. It doesn't sound like it has to do with health, but it does have to do with responsible breeders.

 

[Rits]

DCM 1&2 (preferred clear, is P Hetero ok?)

Negative results:

The absence of the mutation in this dog, DOES NOT mean that it will never develop the disease. It means that it does not have the only known mutation that can cause the disease in the dog at this time.

Positive Results:

Dogs that are positive for the test will not necessarily develop significant heart disease and die from the disease. Some dogs will develop a very mild form of the disease and will live quite comfortably, some may need treatment.

Importantly, breeding decisions should be made carefully. At this time we have do not yet know what percentage of Doberman Pinscher will be positive for the mutation. However, removal of a significant number of dogs from the breeding population could be very bad for the Doberman Pinscher breed. Remember that dogs that carry this mutation also carry other important good genes that we do not want to lose from the breed.

Positive Heterozygous (1 copy of the mutated gene and 1 copy of a normal gene) Dogs that are positive heterozygous should be carefully evaluated for signs of disease (Holter monitor and an echocardiogram). If abnormalities are detected, possible treatment options should be discussed with your veterinarian. Adult dogs that do not show signs of disease and that have other positive attributes could be bred to mutation negative dogs. Puppies may be screened for the mutation and over a few generations, mutation negative puppies may be selected to replace the mutation positive parent and gradually decrease the number of mutation positive dogs in the population.

Positive Homozygous (2 copies of the mutated gene). We recommend not breeding the homozygous dogs. Dogs that are homozygous for the mutation appear to have more significant disease and will certainly pass on the mutation.

Veterinary Cardiac Genetics Laboratory PO Box 2310, Pullman, WA 99165-2310 509-335-6038 b" FAX: 509-335-6038 b" [email protected]

 

[Spoonito]

Thanks all for the response. Also is there a COI level to stay under where possible (made up example but anything over 50% is bad)

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I've seen a few breeders who, in addition to health testing for hips, elbows, eyes, heart, also tout DNA testing.

One breeder (not Doberman) I ran across only claims DNA testing and "have no health problems."

So yes, I know this is not a very good sign; however, would someone be able to say okay show me the results of the testing; and would this show information regarding not only genetic disorders, but perhaps more importantly, give one an indication of how inbred or not inbred the dogs are?

I suppose a legitimate pedigree would show how inbred or linebred the dogs were.

These dogs, the breeder claims, are AKC registered; so a pedigree going back as far as you want to try to access should be available, right?

This breeder of Bullmastiffs claims his granddad brought a breeding pair over from Europe in the 19th century and the dogs have been in his family since. That sounds to me like potential for too small a gene pool, however he claims a few lines the names of which I recognize.

 

[Ravenbird]

would someone be able to say okay show me the results of the testing; and would this show information regarding not only genetic disorders, but perhaps more importantly, give one an indication of how inbred or not inbred the dogs are?

Embark website - you'll have to search around - but they list like 200 health tests that are on the DNA - and also will break it down by the ones most pertinent to your breed. Some are indicators but not PROVEN, so you have to study harder to understand that just because the gene isn't there, doesn't mean the dog will never develop that disease. DCM is one of those. 2 markers have been found but just because the dogs don't have either of those markers doesn't mean they will never have DCM. Von Willebrands though is very clear by DNA gene testing - If clear there is zero chance of getting it or passing it on, carrier means you will never have it but can pass it on to a litter if bred to another carrier and expressed means the dog will have the actual disease and pass it on if bred. So DNA is not always a yes or no, depending on the disease that gene is representing. On the Embark website you can insert your Bullmastiffs and see more detail. It's not simple, but it's very informative, especially if your breed of choice has many inherited diseases.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Embark website - you'll have to search around - but they list like 200 health tests that are on the DNA - and also will break it down by the ones most pertinent to your breed. Some are indicators but not PROVEN, so you have to study harder to understand that just because the gene isn't there, doesn't mean the dog will never develop that disease. DCM is one of those. 2 markers have been found but just because the dogs don't have either of those markers doesn't mean they will never have DCM. Von Willebrands though is very clear by DNA gene testing - If clear there is zero chance of getting it or passing it on, carrier means you will never have it but can pass it on to a litter if bred to another carrier and expressed means the dog will have the actual disease and pass it on if bred. So DNA is not always a yes or no, depending on the disease that gene is representing. On the Embark website you can insert your Bullmastiffs and see more detail. It's not simple, but it's very informative, especially if your breed of choice has many inherited diseases.

Very informative and appreciated, Ravenbird. I would hope I could simply ask the breeder for access to a view of the DNA test results so I can inspect them. Note: I am pasting your informative reply and an expanded bit of input from me into my "Bullmastiffs" thread for consideration.