Dilutes

[Gelcoater]

A new adventure.
This thread will most likely take some turns, as a precursor

As many of you know my family has recently started a new journey.
We got us a blue girl

Now, many of us have posted pics of our dogs with illumination and the eyes reflect color.

Rocky, he’s a black guy.
And his eyes reflect green.



Daisy, the red girl. Her eyes reflected green sometimes, other times it was red.

I’ve not captured the pic yet but Millie’s eyes, reflect blue!
I saw some green from one angle, from another they were White Walker, GOT Blue!

With that out of the way,
Let’s talk diet, and care for dilutes, known to have some skin issues.
Fawns, blues. Dare I say it?
Even white. Z factor, or albino.

(Note here I do not condone intentional breeding of Z factor dogs. People end up with them, from a rescue, the pound, etc.. These dogs and folks have a life to lead)

Millie has an awesome coat for a blue. At one year old she has some shine. Not Black shiny, but she has some shine. I’ve known only one blue before this girl. She stole my heart, horrible coat and all.

Any and all info, experience, interesting articles, etc.
post it up!

 

[GennyB]

Millie has an awesome coat for a blue.

Be aware that could change, she's young.


I think the biggest thing is to protect the skin from the sun. The best dilute coat is thinner than other coats so sunscreen is a must. Some suggest giving melatonin. Here's a link that explains the usage in easy to understand terms. Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville
Their coats tend to be drier, especially if they develop CDA. Good quality omega fatty acids are a must. If the coat gets brittle, spraying coconut oil mixed with distilled water helps with that. And by all means make sure you only brush, rub or pet the way the hair grows. Going the opposite way can break hairs off at skin level. If this happens below the skin level in the follicle itself, it can kill the follicle and no new hair will form.
As far as food, that's seems to be per individual dog. Hopefully what you are feeding works because finding one that does can be a PITA.
My experience is not vast, but I did have success. Because of that I am still contacted by dilute owners for help. So many owners grateful because they saw vast improvements once I reminded them to be patient and give new things plenty of time to see if they work. Obviously stop anything that seems to cause a negative response.
Of course we can't forget to include this link. Storm's Regimen Lots of dilute owners found help following Storm's regime. Some only parts of it while others follow it to a tee.
Thyroid function seems to key with dilutes. Plan on having it checked regularly. Don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to levels. I know with my Goober girl we kept her levels on the high side and had great success.
Good luck! I know with patience and lots of experimenting you can have success!

 

[strykerdobe]

Also for skin an coats look in to Biotin
Clinical study on the effect of biotin on skin conditions in dogs. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[strykerdobe]

@Gelcoater
Was in a hurry
Yes on the Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville as GennyB mentioned also. Dobes that we get in to the rescue that have skin issues we give them both Melatonin and Biotin.
Also it would be a good idea to have a Full Panel Thyroid done. A bad Thyroid can cause skin issues.

 

[Gelcoater]

@Gelcoater
Was in a hurry
Yes on the Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville as GennyB mentioned also. Dobes that we get in to the rescue that have skin issues we give them both Melatonin and Biotin.
Also it would be a good idea to have a Full Panel Thyroid done. A bad Thyroid can cause skin issues.

April had them do a full panel right before her spay. Everything looks good.

 

[GennyB]

Dobes that we get in to the rescue that have skin issues we give them both Melatonin and Biotin.

And they haven't had any side effects? A local Veterinary Dermatologist does not recommend for alopecia because it can cause skin rashes and acne breakouts. Biotin increases sebum production which is the root of the acne problem.
I think he also said that you have to increase your water intake for proper absorption and he didn't think that was a good idea for dogs.

 

[strykerdobe]

And they haven't had any side effects? A local Veterinary Dermatologist does not recommend for alopecia because it can cause skin rashes and acne breakouts. Biotin increases sebum production which is the root of the acne problem.
I think he also said that you have to increase your water intake for proper absorption and he didn't think that was a good idea for dogs.

I will do some further investigating with some of the foster homes on what you mentioned.

 

[Panama]

From what I've seen, a dilute with 1 black/rust parent has less (but not without) coat issues. When you get into the dilutes where both parents are dilutes the chances pretty much double. Yes, there are idiots breeding dilute to dilute.

 

[GennyB]

Yes, there are idiots breeding dilute to dilute.

There certainly are! When we first brought our rescue girl home I just had to know more about her. Her chip was still registered to the breeder so I contacted her. She said she bred dilutes in order to get better coats. One of the few times I was speechless.

 

[Rowledge2]

Be aware that could change, she's young.


I think the biggest thing is to protect the skin from the sun. The best dilute coat is thinner than other coats so sunscreen is a must. Some suggest giving melatonin. Here's a link that explains the usage in easy to understand terms. Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville
Their coats tend to be drier, especially if they develop CDA. Good quality omega fatty acids are a must. If the coat gets brittle, spraying coconut oil mixed with distilled water helps with that. And by all means make sure you only brush, rub or pet the way the hair grows. Going the opposite way can break hairs off at skin level. If this happens below the skin level in the follicle itself, it can kill the follicle and no new hair will form.
As far as food, that's seems to be per individual dog. Hopefully what you are feeding works because finding one that does can be a PITA.
My experience is not vast, but I did have success. Because of that I am still contacted by dilute owners for help. So many owners grateful because they saw vast improvements once I reminded them to be patient and give new things plenty of time to see if they work. Obviously stop anything that seems to cause a negative response.
Of course we can't forget to include this link. Storm's Regimen Lots of dilute owners found help following Storm's regime. Some only parts of it while others follow it to a tee.
Thyroid function seems to key with dilutes. Plan on having it checked regularly. Don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to levels. I know with my Goober girl we kept her levels on the high side and had great success.
Good luck! I know with patience and lots of experimenting you can have success!

 

[Rowledge2]

Hello

Our Blue Dobi was just diagnosed with alopecia after his skin biopsy. He is 9 months old now. The vet said there is not much we can do other than feed good food keep him clean and add fish oil supplements. I asked about things in the Stormie regiment and she basically said that none will work because of the type of alopecia he has???
To me, after he has been bathed he still has a funky smell, like freetos which leads me to believe he has yeast, his ears smell fine, but he does chew his feet, which he probably has another underlying allergy, however, the cost of shots for an allergy is not within my budget at this time
any help would be appreciated
Thank you
Crystal

 

[Gelcoater]

Hello

Our Blue Dobi was just diagnosed with alopecia after his skin biopsy. He is 9 months old now. The vet said there is not much we can do other than feed good food keep him clean and add fish oil supplements. I asked about things in the Stormie regiment and she basically said that none will work because of the type of alopecia he has???
To me, after he has been bathed he still has a funky smell, like freetos which leads me to believe he has yeast, his ears smell fine, but he does chew his feet, which he probably has another underlying allergy, however, the cost of shots for an allergy is not within my budget at this time
any help would be appreciated
Thank you
Crystal

I can’t recall having a dog (any breed) who’s feet didn’t smell a bit like Fritos when wet?

 

[GennyB]

Hello

Our Blue Dobi was just diagnosed with alopecia after his skin biopsy. He is 9 months old now. The vet said there is not much we can do other than feed good food keep him clean and add fish oil supplements. I asked about things in the Stormie regiment and she basically said that none will work because of the type of alopecia he has???
To me, after he has been bathed he still has a funky smell, like freetos which leads me to believe he has yeast, his ears smell fine, but he does chew his feet, which he probably has another underlying allergy, however, the cost of shots for an allergy is not within my budget at this time
any help would be appreciated
Thank you
Crystal

It's not unusual for Vet's to say there is nothing you can do. I heard it several times from my Vet. I was determined to give my girl the best coat I could. Greta came to me when she was 9 moths old with the worst coat EVER. She came from a bad situation. She had mange along with several other problems. We slowly began to address each problem and eventually were successful.
She ended up with a nice coat (she was diagnosed with CDA just before 2 yo) after trying multiple things. Some worked great, others not so much. In the end we were successful.
She was 9 in this pic showing off her nice full coat.


If you suspect allergies I would give this a shot. I know several people that swear by it. Platinum Skin & Allergy

Try new things one at a time so you know what works. Also give it plenty of time to work. Finding something to help can take time, lots of time.

If there is a yeast infection going on, I would get to the bottom of it before trying to work on the coat. Patience and trying one thing at a time is your friend here.

 

[strykerdobe]

My feelings when I mention to a vet about some treatment or supplement and they say it probably won't help or work. My next question to them is well will it hurt them? If they say no then I try it anyway!!! If they say yes or don't know then I search out for the answer.
All vets don't know everything!
Think Out of The Box!

Some good videos below.

I would try the Storm's regimen and other recommendations on that site anyway and @GennyB mentioned.
Storm's Regimen

Since this issue is mostly Genetic in Dobes and some other breeds this can be tough to manage. Not all things will work for each dog. Also Alopecia can be caused by other things like diseases, infections, auto-immune and conditions. So it was good to have the skin biopsy to rule things out.

If the Vet put your Dobe on any antibiotics (which upset the gut bacteria) it's a good idea to give a good a pre and probiotic. Also you might want to keep them on it.

You can also try Biotin and Melatonin has helped in some Dobes we get into the Rescue.
Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville

I know he's only 9mo old. Some things to get checked is to get a Full Thyroid Panel. A dog with Thyroid issues can cause or complicate skin issues. Your vet will probably say he is too young to have Thyroid issues.

Don't know what you are feeding? But a better diet like feeding a raw or home cooked diet can help.
Most kibble foods are very high (40-60%) in Carbs. Starch is used in foods like kibble to hold the kibble together. Starch=Carbs=Sugar. Sugar can feed Yeast.

Some recommendations.
Better diet.

Adding a good (we use Icelandic Pure Amazon $20 for 33oz) Omega 3 Fish Oil. We have been using one made from Sardines, Anchovies or Mackerel.
You can also add canned Sardines (ones that are in water) drain and feed 3-4x's a week.

Keep giving a Pre and Probiotic. These I would give separate (couple of hours before or after) from eating times and giving antibiotics.

Can also give Organic Brag's Apple Cider Vinegar 1Tsp 2x's a day on his food. ACV is antifungal and antibacterial. Can also put (use a cotton ball) on affected areas of the skin.

Adding Organic Coconut Oil to food. Coconut Oil contains Lauric Acid which is antifungal and antivirus. Can also melt some and put some on your hands and rub into affected areas. But also he might want to lick those areas.

There are some medicated shampoos. Also I would only use an Organic shampoo (not with Oatmeal) with a conditioner. Because you don't want to take out the natural oils out of the skin.

Some treatments say to use Oatmeal in them. But if your dog has allergies I would stay away from Oatmeal in the ingredients.

I would limit any vaccines. If he had his core puppy vaccines he most probable not need any boosters. Core vaccines can last 5-7yrs and up to the life of the pet.

A good contact is Atlanta Acupuncture which has lots of supplements and Chinese Herbs that might help.
Pets


About Food Diets

Can try this foot soak for his feet.

Dr. Becker's Holistic Tips for Pet Allergies

Yeast Infection in Dogs

Color Dilution Alopecia in Dogs
What Is Color Dilution Alopecia and How Is It Treated in Dogs?

Alopecia in Dogs
What is Alopecia and Why Does a Dog Get it?

 

[Rowledge2]

It's not unusual for Vet's to say there is nothing you can do. I heard it several times from my Vet. I was determined to give my girl the best coat I could. Greta came to me when she was 9 moths old with the worst coat EVER. She came from a bad situation. She had mange along with several other problems. We slowly began to address each problem and eventually were successful.
She ended up with a nice coat (she was diagnosed with CDA just before 2 yo) after trying multiple things. Some worked great, others not so much. In the end we were successful.
She was 9 in this pic showing off her nice full coat.
View attachment 107216

If you suspect allergies I would give this a shot. I know several people that swear by it. Platinum Skin & Allergy

Try new things one at a time so you know what works. Also give it plenty of time to work. Finding something to help can take time, lots of time.

If there is a yeast infection going on, I would get to the bottom of it before trying to work on the coat. Patience and trying one thing at a time is your friend here.[/QUOTE

 

[Rowledge2]

Thank you for the feed back!! I believe the way he smells after about 4 days, that he is yeasty. And I really want to try the melatonin

 

[Rowledge2]

My feelings when I mention to a vet about some treatment or supplement and they say it probably won't help or work. My next question to them is well will it hurt them? If they say no then I try it anyway!!! If they say yes or don't know then I search out for the answer.
All vets don't know everything!
Think Out of The Box!

Some good videos below.

I would try the Storm's regimen and other recommendations on that site anyway and @GennyB mentioned.
Storm's Regimen

Since this issue is mostly Genetic in Dobes and some other breeds this can be tough to manage. Not all things will work for each dog. Also Alopecia can be caused by other things like diseases, infections, auto-immune and conditions. So it was good to have the skin biopsy to rule things out.

If the Vet put your Dobe on any antibiotics (which upset the gut bacteria) it's a good idea to give a good a pre and probiotic. Also you might want to keep them on it.

You can also try Biotin and Melatonin has helped in some Dobes we get into the Rescue.
Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville

I know he's only 9mo old. Some things to get checked is to get a Full Thyroid Panel. A dog with Thyroid issues can cause or complicate skin issues. Your vet will probably say he is too young to have Thyroid issues.

Don't know what you are feeding? But a better diet like feeding a raw or home cooked diet can help.
Most kibble foods are very high (40-60%) in Carbs. Starch is used in foods like kibble to hold the kibble together. Starch=Carbs=Sugar. Sugar can feed Yeast.

Some recommendations.
Better diet.

Adding a good (we use Icelandic Pure Amazon $20 for 33oz) Omega 3 Fish Oil. We have been using one made from Sardines, Anchovies or Mackerel.
You can also add canned Sardines (ones that are in water) drain and feed 3-4x's a week.

Keep giving a Pre and Probiotic. These I would give separate (couple of hours before or after) from eating times and giving antibiotics.

Can also give Organic Brag's Apple Cider Vinegar 1Tsp 2x's a day on his food. ACV is antifungal and antibacterial. Can also put (use a cotton ball) on affected areas of the skin.

Adding Organic Coconut Oil to food. Coconut Oil contains Lauric Acid which is antifungal and antivirus. Can also melt some and put some on your hands and rub into affected areas. But also he might want to lick those areas.

There are some medicated shampoos. Also I would only use an Organic shampoo (not with Oatmeal) with a conditioner. Because you don't want to take out the natural oils out of the skin.

Some treatments say to use Oatmeal in them. But if your dog has allergies I would stay away from Oatmeal in the ingredients.

I would limit any vaccines. If he had his core puppy vaccines he most probable not need any boosters. Core vaccines can last 5-7yrs and up to the life of the pet.

A good contact is Atlanta Acupuncture which has lots of supplements and Chinese Herbs that might help.
Pets


About Food Diets

Can try this foot soak for his feet.

Dr. Becker's Holistic Tips for Pet Allergies

Yeast Infection in Dogs

Color Dilution Alopecia in Dogs
What Is Color Dilution Alopecia and How Is It Treated in Dogs?

Alopecia in Dogs
What is Alopecia and Why Does a Dog Get it?

 

[Rowledge2]

My feelings when I mention to a vet about some treatment or supplement and they say it probably won't help or work. My next question to them is well will it hurt them? If they say no then I try it anyway!!! If they say yes or don't know then I search out for the answer.
All vets don't know everything!
Think Out of The Box!

Some good videos below.

I would try the Storm's regimen and other recommendations on that site anyway and @GennyB mentioned.
Storm's Regimen

Since this issue is mostly Genetic in Dobes and some other breeds this can be tough to manage. Not all things will work for each dog. Also Alopecia can be caused by other things like diseases, infections, auto-immune and conditions. So it was good to have the skin biopsy to rule things out.

If the Vet put your Dobe on any antibiotics (which upset the gut bacteria) it's a good idea to give a good a pre and probiotic. Also you might want to keep them on it.

You can also try Biotin and Melatonin has helped in some Dobes we get into the Rescue.
Melatonin Therapy for Canine Alopecia (Hair Loss in Dogs) - Nashville

I know he's only 9mo old. Some things to get checked is to get a Full Thyroid Panel. A dog with Thyroid issues can cause or complicate skin issues. Your vet will probably say he is too young to have Thyroid issues.

Don't know what you are feeding? But a better diet like feeding a raw or home cooked diet can help.
Most kibble foods are very high (40-60%) in Carbs. Starch is used in foods like kibble to hold the kibble together. Starch=Carbs=Sugar. Sugar can feed Yeast.

Some recommendations.
Better diet.

Adding a good (we use Icelandic Pure Amazon $20 for 33oz) Omega 3 Fish Oil. We have been using one made from Sardines, Anchovies or Mackerel.
You can also add canned Sardines (ones that are in water) drain and feed 3-4x's a week.

Keep giving a Pre and Probiotic. These I would give separate (couple of hours before or after) from eating times and giving antibiotics.

Can also give Organic Brag's Apple Cider Vinegar 1Tsp 2x's a day on his food. ACV is antifungal and antibacterial. Can also put (use a cotton ball) on affected areas of the skin.

Adding Organic Coconut Oil to food. Coconut Oil contains Lauric Acid which is antifungal and antivirus. Can also melt some and put some on your hands and rub into affected areas. But also he might want to lick those areas.

There are some medicated shampoos. Also I would only use an Organic shampoo (not with Oatmeal) with a conditioner. Because you don't want to take out the natural oils out of the skin.

Some treatments say to use Oatmeal in them. But if your dog has allergies I would stay away from Oatmeal in the ingredients.

I would limit any vaccines. If he had his core puppy vaccines he most probable not need any boosters. Core vaccines can last 5-7yrs and up to the life of the pet.

A good contact is Atlanta Acupuncture which has lots of supplements and Chinese Herbs that might help.
Pets


About Food Diets

Can try this foot soak for his feet.

Dr. Becker's Holistic Tips for Pet Allergies

Yeast Infection in Dogs

Color Dilution Alopecia in Dogs
What Is Color Dilution Alopecia and How Is It Treated in Dogs?

Alopecia in Dogs
What is Alopecia and Why Does a Dog Get it?

 

[Rowledge2]

Thank you also for the information
We feed Purina pro-plan sensitive skin and stomach.
We also add omega-3s and canned salmon.
I asked about the thyroid panel and again the vet said it is not the problem, which concerned me as all of what I read says to have the thyroid panel checked first.
I have used to coconut oil on and off but like you said he licks it off.
I will definitely follow through on the information and videos
Thank you!

 

[strykerdobe]

Thank you for the feed back!! I believe the way he smells after about 4 days, that he is yeasty. And I really want to try the melatonin

As for the Biotin read below (its in kg's) on dose. So 5mg Biotin per 22 pounds of body weight per day.

In a collaborative study with small-animal veterinary surgeons, dogs with fur and skin conditions were treated with biotin (approximately 5 mg biotin/10 kg body weight/day) for 3 to 5 weeks. In total 119 cases could be treated which were reported to show symptoms such as dull coat, brittle hair, loss of hair, scaly skin, pruritus or dermatitis.
Clinical study on the effect of biotin on skin conditions ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2602924


For got one other thing you can feed is Organic Raw Eggs. 1 per day also can crush the shell and feed it to. Eggs are good for the coat and contain Biotin. If your going to buy regular store bought I would not feed the shells. These are coated with a wax or mineral oil.

Also Blueberries and Bananas have Biotin in them.