American vs Euro Doberman for service work

[Korrianne19]

I posted a little bit ago about training a Doberman to be a service dog for myself. I was wondering what has been your experience with differences between American and European Dobes in terms of temperament and drive? After reading a few articles I am feeling a bit lost in terms of which dog would be better suited for what I need. Some articles call American Dobermans more anxious but then others say that that isn't actually true. Then I am reading that European Dobes are more aggressive which is definitely not something that I can have in my future dog, but I don't know how true this actually is. Is there a huge difference in size of dogs? In pictures euros look much larger and americans look very 'delicate' in comparison so I am just a little bit frustrated trying to figure this all out. Can anyone provide some insight into this topic? Also if you have recommendations on breeders I could get in contact with of either American or Euro to see what they think of this specific question that would be appreciated as well.

 

[AresMyDobie]

I think it depends on the temperament of the dog. My male is euro and is my service dog. My euro female could never be a service dog.
My male is much more confident, never once shied at anything, gets concepts very quickly, and is extremely focused on me. Where ever I go he must follow cuz that’s how he is.
My female is crazy lol she’s hyper, high drive and needs a job all the time. She has to made to relax, she’s incredible in public and everything like that but she lacks in focus and doesn’t get concepts as quickly because I have to get her to remember to focus. She is a strict working line euro doberman though.

Size wise no the Americans and euros are the same in height, the euro top of height standard is 28” which my male is. The American top of standard is 27 1/2 for males.
My female is 26” which is top of euro female standard.

As far as a service dog I really think it depends on the dogs temperament, engagement with you, and focus. Dobermans are natural protectors, just something to remember.

My boy has never had a problem, he knows when the vest goes on it’s work time.

 

[Korrianne19]

I think it depends on the temperament of the dog. My male is euro and is my service dog. My euro female could never be a service dog.
My male is much more confident, never once shied at anything, gets concepts very quickly, and is extremely focused on me. Where ever I go he must follow cuz that’s how he is.
My female is crazy lol she’s hyper, high drive and needs a job all the time. She has to made to relax, she’s incredible in public and everything like that but she lacks in focus and doesn’t get concepts as quickly because I have to get her to remember to focus. She is a strict working line euro doberman though.

Size wise no the Americans and euros are the same in height, the euro top of height standard is 28” which my male is. The American top of standard is 27 1/2 for males.
My female is 26” which is top of euro female standard.

As far as a service dog I really think it depends on the dogs temperament, engagement with you, and focus. Dobermans are natural protectors, just something to remember.

My boy has never had a problem, he knows when the vest goes on it’s work time.

Thank you for your feedback! I figured it would be different from dog to dog but kept coming across people saying that it's like a fact of every single dog. I appreciate your input. When I read that the Euros are more driven it made me think they would be more suited for the job because I definitely need a dog excited and willing to work day in and day out.

 

[Doberman Gang]

Did you say you are going to train your own service dog? Are you a service dog trainer of some sorts? I believe service dogs will vary depending on what they are providing. Some Dobermans might fit a certain criteria but not for some service work. Just buying a puppy from a breeder won’t guarantee that puppy will be suitable for service work. I would think if you need a service dog you would do best to look at places training service dogs for specific things.

 

[GennyB]

My euro girl is my service dog. In fact she had a big test today and passed with flying colors.
I don't know what it is about people that want to make the 2 out like they are different breeds. They may have some slight differences but they are the same breed no matter how you spell it, Dobermann/Doberman. They all come with different personalities just like people.
I think it will not matter what you go with but what will matter is what breeder you decide on. I think I would look at breeders that actually work their dogs in some venue. I think it's really important to help them understand temperament. And of course health testing and a history of longevity is just as important.
I know a breeder that breeds dobies for use as service dogs. Not sure she still breeds because she is really involved in the fund raising aspect the last I heard. They train for use as guide dogs but might be a good resource for breeder. Now if I could only remember her name.......
If I think of it I'll get back to you.

 

[GennyB]

Just buying a puppy from a breeder won’t guarantee that puppy will be suitable for service work.

Perfect example.

 

[Doberman Gang]

Perfect example.

Multiply that dog by about 5 and you would have Blaze and he would have bitten the guy in the wheelchair for trying to hold him back from getting the ball.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Just wanted to add that both @GennyB and @AresMyDobie are experienced Doberman owners. If you’re going to be experiencing a Doberman for the first time, like I did, I can tell you that it is like no other dog on planet Earth My local community has tons of American Dobermans and I’ve always found them to be way more chilled out than my Euro. They require a strong leader which is not to be underestimated. The Velcro aspect will definitely work in your favor as the dog will largely stay with you - I say largely because they go from being Psycho Puppies that can traumatize you, to the Donkey phase where they are ‘large and in charge’ and they know it! It is said that they mature rather slowly (compared to females), sometimes taking till 3 years old! Yes, “the look” is undeniably awe inspiring, but it would seem from my learnings here that a properly bred Doberman should have the same sort of energy and drive whether it’s American or Euro. Just my two cents!

 

[Korrianne19]

Did you say you are going to train your own service dog? Are you a service dog trainer of some sorts? I believe service dogs will vary depending on what they are providing. Some Dobermans might fit a certain criteria but not for some service work. Just buying a puppy from a breeder won’t guarantee that puppy will be suitable for service work. I would think if you need a service dog you would do best to look at places training service dogs for specific things.

Sorry haven't been on here in a while. I am a raiser for a service dog organization currently and am working on creating a new branch of the organization that I will be in charge of. I would include an animal behaviorist in my search for a dog as well as throughout the course of all their training to have the best chances of success. This also is a future goal of mine, meaning I do not plan on beginning this journey for a few years at least. I am just beginning to do research and find out what I need to know plus adding to that timeframe is the waiting list of whomever I decide to choose as a breeder. I understand what you mean by going through a program, but as a puppy raiser, I have realized that if I do end up having a service dog in the future, I want to bond with them from a pup, not just once they are fully trained. Also, if the dog did not work out for service work for whatever the reason may be, I would be keeping them as a family pet. Hope this all made sense.

 

[Korrianne19]

Perfect example.

Lol I've seen that video on Facebook before. If that's the first time introducing them to wheelchairs and other mobility aids they started super late lol

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Hey there. I was rather busy two Thursdays ago , so I missed this thread.

Appearance:

I feel there is overall a difference between Euros and Americans. Yes, of course, each Dobe varies by individual, just like each human varies.

Again, speaking in generalities: There is a difference in the appearance of a Euro vs. an American. Doing a web search and looking at the pics bears this out clearly. You will see American conformation (show) Dobes stacked in show pose and they indeed look rather dainty, most of them. You will see Euros in their style of pose (leaning into the leash and always photographed with mouth open, panting). Euros look more powerful because of this pose, but that's not the only reason. They are also (generally) more powerfully built – blockier with more substantial heads. They tend to have more profuse flews (slightly pendulous lips on the sides of the snout). Even the females have this trait to the flews, which is a rather masculine-looking trait. There is a member here who has a gorgeous female Euro and I like to say she is about 100% more masculine looking than my boy (that is a complement).

I can speak to this, but it's in a roundabout way: My boy is a Euro, but is a working-line Euro (smaller and built for speed and agility), and his dam is a German import. My boy, unfortunately, is almost without fail, mistaken for a female – by dog people and non-dog people. His snout is snipey and his head unsubstantial. He does indeed look rather dainty and feminine in the face. It's interesting to note: Look at my avatar pic. He is panting in that pic and his head looks much more powerful and less dainty, don't you think? Open that jaw a little bit and it immediately adds size to the snout.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Temperament/Suitability as Service Dog:

Yes, Euros enjoy a reputation as sharper, more driven and perhaps even more prone to aggression. While this is a reputation and a generalization, I personally think there is some truth to it.

American breeders, it is well-documented in literature, worked to mold a (you might say) kinder, gentler Doberman – one that is less of a liability and better suited to the lives most people live here as pet owners. In my opinion, they succeeded in stripping some of the working ability from the breed. Try taking the typical American Doberman and training it to compete in dog sports like IPO and it will not have what it takes. They may have great alertness and great watchdog capabilities, but will often not have what it really takes to stand up to a man and go in for an effective (especially not a full-mouth) bite.

Then, there are working lines in Dobermans (as I alluded to in my boy). This adds yet another variable. A few breeders in this country are breeding for a Doberman that possesses a lot of what has been stripped from the breed. This results, overall, in Dobes that are not what the typical American pet Doberman owner wants.

Tying all this in to service dog suitability: You don't need the qualities generally prevalent in Euros or working-line Dobermans for what you are seeking to have. I would suggest getting an American Doberman, and finding a breeder who produces Dobes who do not tend toward the high-drive, or the performance venue type. Most Dobes are going to be high energy, and service dogs need to be (or at least to be able to act) rather low energy. If you look at dogs that are chosen as service dogs, they are the ones that, upon evaluation at a very young age, test as calm, rather unexcitable pups. Certainly, seeing-eye dogs are not just any dogs. They are typically chosen carefully as young pups.

You want a Doberman to be your service dog. You will be best off choosing wisely. They have the loyalty and "velcro" qualities, but you will have a much easier time if you get one on the calmer end of the spectrum.

 

[Doberman Gang]

If you haven’t seen this movie it is really good. Documentary on service dogs for the blind. There breeding program and all the stages the dog goes through during the training process.

 

[GennyB]

If you haven’t seen this movie it is really good. Documentary on service dogs for the blind. There breeding program and all the stages the dog goes through during the training process.

I did see it and loved it. In fact I saw in KC about a year ago or so.


When I first decided to train Rumor as my service dog I was in way over my head. Looking back I know she would not be a pup that would be chosen for the job. She was more like the pup in the video above and stubborn as a mule. Now she's 2 and doing really well with lots of patience and research for the right training method for her. I'm still amazed at how much each dog teaches us. I had more days of feeling overwhelmed by the decision to train her but somehow we got there.
Just yesterday she passed another milestone. Took her out to lunch with me. We have been working on her picking things I drop up for me. With numb hands you really can't tell how much of a grip you have on things so you drop a lot of stuff. Rue really struggled with with that task. She couldn't seem to find the right grip and would break things or be just too tempted to chew. At lunch yesterday I dropped my fork. Rue to the rescue! She picked it up and sat it on my lap perfectly. Big moment for us so I just had to share...