Justice's first Porcupine ( Graphic kinda ? )

[Ingrid H]

So glad Justice is quill free and a happy boy again! The instructions that came with my mom's e-collar were total crap. They advocated "escape training", which is a rather outdated method of training (at least for pets). I recommend the Leerburg video on training with e-collars for pets.

The real reason I decided to chime in on this thread again was to suggest that you not take Justice porcupine hunting anymore. His hatred for the critters may have escalated to the point where he may attack a dead porcupine the instant it hits the ground after it is shot. He could wind up with a whole new beard of quills from a dead porcupine. He may also be learning that they are the enemy from hunting with you. I wouldn't put it past a smart doberman like Justice to learn that from you.

My boyfriend has a friend who used to hunt porcupines for the bounty the state of Maine used to have on on them. He would just bring in the foot and collect money for it. Maine values trees

 

[Liberty & Justice]

So glad Justice is quill free and a happy boy again! The instructions that came with my mom's e-collar were total crap. They advocated "escape training", which is a rather outdated method of training (at least for pets). I recommend the Leerburg video on training with e-collars for pets.

The real reason I decided to chime in on this thread again was to suggest that you not take Justice porcupine hunting anymore. His hatred for the critters may have escalated to the point where he may attack a dead porcupine the instant it hits the ground after it is shot. He could wind up with a whole new beard of quills from a dead porcupine. He may also be learning that they are the enemy from hunting with you. I wouldn't put it past a smart doberman like Justice to learn that from you.

My boyfriend has a friend who used to hunt porcupines for the bounty the state of Maine used to have on on them. He would just bring in the foot and collect money for it. Maine values trees

I appreciate you opinions, but Justice really doesn't go hunting per-say with me all the time. We hike thru the woods, and then we stumble upon such things. It's just the way it is around here. As to the dead porcupines it seems the quills become dead themselves. I learned this from the first kill, it fell to the ground nearly a month later from a tree, Justice sniffed it when I wasn't looking and one stuck in his chin. It literally fell out moments later as it didn't have it's spunk......not exactly sure how that worked, but it did.

He may be learning about enemy, but honestly if it has 4 legs such as a deer, varmint, bear, he chases after it. It's really the prey drive I need to control, and that's hard as I've asked before.

 

[Liberty & Justice]

Stephen, I know you feel badly but Jess is right, he has already
forgotten, each times he gets it, it is worse. I fear for him, he
is going to be on my mind all night. In his mouth, poor baby,
he must be in agony. Think about us when we have something
in our mouth........OUCH........BAD NEWS. I know I am not
helping you feeling upset, but he has got to really upset.

We thank you for the concern, we really do. It was a hard night to say the least and today wasn't any easier. Justice is finally coming around from being knocked out this morning. That stuff was potent !!! At around 4 today he was able to walk fairly normal, but still kind of dopey........

He's been fed, watered, and is relaxing on the bed with me as I've had a pounding headache from all the stresses of the day, not just Justice.

Good news, he'll be fine, and tomorrow is a new day with some training to start.................

I am however going to go out and blast a few porcupines to release some stress ! LOL

 

[Liberty & Justice]

Wow he really did get it this time. There's no doubt he's going to be one that doesn't learn (either they do on the first occasion or they never do) so I'm glad you're going to start utilizing the e-collar. The porcupines are one of the least of the worries out there in your woods, so it's going to save his life sooner or later.

I'm glad he's finally out of his misery now and resting well.

Yes he did Jan, yes he did. Well it's my bad that I didn't start using the collar a few months ago when I got it. I just kept justifying reasons for not using it. Obviously my boy isn't perfect, not as perfect as I may lead on anyhow ( too proud ) so it' s back to reality for us.........

 

[Liberty & Justice]

Please keep us posted, as I know you will. HUGS TO ALL

He's all good now ~ Thank you very much for the concern and kind words as always !

 

[Gelcoater]

I am however going to go out and blast a few porcupines to release some stress ! LOL

LOL,

 

[Marinegeekswife]

72?! Sweet ! Glad they were able to get them out and he's recovering.

 

[Liberty & Justice]

72?! Sweet ! Glad they were able to get them out and he's recovering.

Yup 72 quills from a baby porcupine which is nearly worse since they are so small and more sharp according to this vet we visited today. He actually let me pull some out and WOW no wonder he was hurting. His skin around the quill would stretch 1/2" every time. Man oh man they are terrible little creatures....... Tomorrow's the first go around with the E-collar so I'm hoping he's successful at this training and learns quickly. I really don't want to see him go thru this ever again............

Why do you think Justice was out for so long today ? I mean it was like 7 hours of total sleep.........I'm not too happy about that one, as the first time he was put under it lasted 20 minutes or so and he was back to normal. This time he was having head shakes during sleep, and tremors. I called the vet and he insisted this was normal while the drug is wearing off, but yet he slept for another 4-5 hours after that episode.

Good news, he's back to normal. A bit tired, and a bit " WTF just happened to me ", but he'll be fine.

 

[JanS]

I'm glad he's doing better now!
I honestly questioned why he was still out by the time you got back to the office too since both of the times we've brought ours in for quill removal (and the one was severe) they were awake and able to walk out on their own within a half an hour, even though they were still a bit groggy. Something definitely doesn't sound right there.

 

[Liberty & Justice]

I'm glad he's doing better now!
I honestly questioned why he was still out by the time you got back to the office too since both of the times we've brought ours in for quill removal (and the one was severe) they were awake and able to walk out on their own within a half an hour, even though they were still a bit groggy. Something definitely doesn't sound right there.

I asked that question and he said every vet has their own cocktail...... That was a quote too. Man oh man I should of known, he seemed despereate to do Justice's nuetering, and offered it for a fraction of what it was from my reg. vet. Said he was a vet since 1972, but looked like a quack. I was desperate to find a vet that was open vs. emergency work. Does anyone know what he might of been given to put him out for so long ?

 

[Liberty & Justice]

I'm glad he's doing better now!
I honestly questioned why he was still out by the time you got back to the office too since both of the times we've brought ours in for quill removal (and the one was severe) they were awake and able to walk out on their own within a half an hour, even though they were still a bit groggy. Something definitely doesn't sound right there.

Well after a bit of research it appears he used an older form of the medicine. It appears there are several types of cocktails as he put it, out there on the market. I read a few people their dogs were down for a entire 24 hours. I am very concerned though because most vet's would honor keeping the dog for monitoring purposes, I walked out with him while he was still under !!! Then I had to flip him every 30 minutes the vet said, so I did it every 15 just to be sure, something about fluid build up ? God Damn did I go to a caveman vet ?

 

[My Mateese]

Well after a bit of research it appears he used an older form of the medicine. It appears there are several types of cocktails as he put it, out there on the market. I read a few people their dogs were down for a entire 24 hours. I am very concerned though because most vet's would honor keeping the dog for monitoring purposes, I walked out with him while he was still under !!! Then I had to flip him every 30 minutes the vet said, so I did it every 15 just to be sure, something about fluid build up ? God Damn did I go to a caveman vet ?

I am glad he is OK Stephen, poor poor baby.

That is a long time to be out and I would not want to walk out with
him in that shape, I agree he should have been monitored or something,
then flipping him, HOLY JAMOLY I WOULD HAVE BEEN A WRECK
AND I AM SURE YOU WERE. Stephen, is his mouth all sore? Good
Lord 72, I just can't imagine. If I could I would come and help you
track those things down, there are probably hundreds of them.

LOOK OUT WILD INDIAN ON WAR PATH


HUGS TO BOTH OF YOU

 

[Liberty & Justice]

I am glad he is OK Stephen, poor poor baby.

That is a long time to be out and I would not want to walk out with
him in that shape, I agree he should have been monitored or something,
then flipping him, HOLY JAMOLY I WOULD HAVE BEEN A WRECK
AND I AM SURE YOU WERE. Stephen, is his mouth all sore? Good
Lord 72, I just can't imagine. If I could I would come and help you
track those things down, there are probably hundreds of them.

LOOK OUT WILD INDIAN ON WAR PATH


HUGS TO BOTH OF YOU

Oh man was I ever a wreck...... I was afraid to go home in case something major happened and went sorely wrong. It would of been a matter of death if we came home and something happened. I paid the parts manager at a dealership to watch him the entire day just to make sure. I had to stay with him but had to bounce around a few times so I didn't want to take Justice in the truck where he'd be uncomfortable.

I guess from what I've read being under that long isn't terribly un-normal. There are older forms of it out there and I suppose that is what this vet uses. Each vet does have their own methods, but I can assure anyone we'd be sticking with the actual animal hospital, regardless of price. I just didn't have an option today except the E.R.........

Oh I'm on a mission alright, I will be out most of the day with him staying inside to go and find all the critters on the land. I read a bunch of ways how to track them and find them. I guess they stay on the same paths and never really deter their routes.

 

[Judith]

Awwwwwwww so sorry Stephen about Justice, just caught up on your thread, I would not worry too much about him sleeping the trauma makes them extremely tired as well as the anaesthetic, the collar is going to be essential to keep your boy safe and alive, I do hope he is feeling somewhat brighter today and give him a big hug from me bless him

 

[Amber]

I am really relieved that the "graphic" warning wasn't because Justice had a face full of quills!

ME TOO!

 

[JanS]

Well after a bit of research it appears he used an older form of the medicine. It appears there are several types of cocktails as he put it, out there on the market. I read a few people their dogs were down for a entire 24 hours. I am very concerned though because most vet's would honor keeping the dog for monitoring purposes, I walked out with him while he was still under !!! Then I had to flip him every 30 minutes the vet said, so I did it every 15 just to be sure, something about fluid build up ? God Damn did I go to a caveman vet ?

Holy I think he is a bit in the dark ages. To put him under that much and force you to take him while he should have been under his observation is terrible, IMO. :shakinghead:

 

[Quee]

So glad Justice is quill free and a happy boy again! The instructions that came with my mom's e-collar were total crap. They advocated "escape training", which is a rather outdated method of training (at least for pets). I recommend the Leerburg video on training with e-collars for pets.

The real reason I decided to chime in on this thread again was to suggest that you not take Justice porcupine hunting anymore. His hatred for the critters may have escalated to the point where he may attack a dead porcupine the instant it hits the ground after it is shot. He could wind up with a whole new beard of quills from a dead porcupine. He may also be learning that they are the enemy from hunting with you. I wouldn't put it past a smart doberman like Justice to learn that from you.

My boyfriend has a friend who used to hunt porcupines for the bounty the state of Maine used to have on on them. He would just bring in the foot and collect money for it. Maine values trees

Definitely the experience could escalate his aggression. My Pippi survived a run-in with a train with lots of scratches and injuries but thankfully nothing broken (or death). But now she is extremely aggressive towards trains and I'm still trying to train her to not go in 'the zone' and chase them when she hears or sees trains. I've been training her since I got her 8 months ago, and I still don't have her under control around trains. We're still working on it though . . . it's like they want revenge on the things that hurt them.

 

[Quee]

Well after a bit of research it appears he used an older form of the medicine. It appears there are several types of cocktails as he put it, out there on the market. I read a few people their dogs were down for a entire 24 hours. I am very concerned though because most vet's would honor keeping the dog for monitoring purposes, I walked out with him while he was still under !!! Then I had to flip him every 30 minutes the vet said, so I did it every 15 just to be sure, something about fluid build up ? God Damn did I go to a caveman vet ?

That would definitely concern me if the vet let me walk out with my dog still knocked out from anesthesia. My vets never let animals leave their animal hospital without them having been away for an hour or more under obersvation.

I think you may indeed have gone to a quack, but thank God things seemed to have worked out allright for Justice.

 

[Gelcoater]

Well after a bit of research it appears he used an older form of the medicine. It appears there are several types of cocktails as he put it, out there on the market. I read a few people their dogs were down for a entire 24 hours. I am very concerned though because most vet's would honor keeping the dog for monitoring purposes, I walked out with him while he was still under !!! Then I had to flip him every 30 minutes the vet said, so I did it every 15 just to be sure, something about fluid build up ? God Damn did I go to a caveman vet ?

WTF??? Uh,yeah,cave man is right.Who in their right mind would let the dog go still out? No human doc would do this,why is it ok for a vet?IF something bad happened to the dog after you left who would be at fault? The vet for letting him go,or the dog owner for taking the dog out of the vets care? Granted...on the vets ok.
This ties into Jans thread about bad vet experiences don't ya think? And the comments D4E said now sound even more valid. Wow,seriously,wow.
I'm glad he's ok now,so go kill some porcupines

 

[Liberty & Justice]

WTF??? Uh,yeah,cave man is right.Who in their right mind would let the dog go still out? No human doc would do this,why is it ok for a vet?IF something bad happened to the dog after you left who would be at fault? The vet for letting him go,or the dog owner for taking the dog out of the vets care? Granted...on the vets ok.
This ties into Jans thread about bad vet experiences don't ya think? And the comments D4E said now sound even more valid. Wow,seriously,wow.
I'm glad he's ok now,so go kill some porcupines

Well I'm just thankful that he's back to normal !!! I guess it angers me so much but during the time I was desperate to make him feel better. How much of a monopoly do you think the vet's in this town have by all taking Saturday's and Sunday's off ? They all say on their answering machines to call the E.R Vet which is in a strip mall ( kinda ).And when I mean all I mean all 8 of them in a 20 mile radius. Remember I had been there ( E.R Vet ) before when Justice was attacked at a dog park and I remember them taking my head off financially !!! It's 114.00 just to walk in the door, and everything is quadruple ( prob. more )the price it should be. Granted they do a very needed service, but really, do they have to just gouge you ? 700 dollars to put a dog under for 20 minutes and pull some quills ? I'm sorry but I make a healthy living, and honestly I would have gone there if I hadn't been done before for a 173.00 at my reg. vet and known I was getting extorted. They sell it like this " well then have your dog in pain " to you if you complain about the price.

The good news Justice survived, he's healthy, seems to have forgotten me trying to pull out the quills myself ( think he was mad at me ) and that we will NEVER GO BACK TO THE QUACK again. I thought it odd when he kept pressuring me to do the neuter, and like right NOW !!! I just simply said " No thanks his normal vet will do it on Memorial day ". I did see degree's and state license's in frames, so I'm sure he's legit, just a bit too back woods for me.

I wasn't sure about how anesthesia worked.......Otherwise I wouldn't of left, they made it seem like it was a no big deal........The only time Justice was under once before he was out of it in 20 minutes like nothing ever happened. I'm going to call my regular vet tomorrow morning, one asking for their home number, two to insist they start some sort of emergency services themselves as they are an actual animal hospital, and three ask about the Dr. King that helped us out over the weekend.