Please Help

[PerfectlyConfused]

So my Bf and I went home this weekend to visit some family, of course Jayda came and something I would never excpect happend. We were in the living room with my baby sister Paige ( not even a year yet), and Jayda was laying by my feet. They have always gotten along well and Jayda is very gentle with her, alway supervised of course. Well Paige was trying to use my moms leg to get up and Jayda went after her. This was extremely scary and after she has gone after me twice i feel like I am at a loss. I take her to classes every week, we visit with the neighbors almost daily, and she has been acting differnet with the neighbors recently. . . Just before we went home she actually went towards a neighbor who was saying high to us and was very aggressive about it. My bf and I both love her and could not imagine not having her. We have had her for a little over two months now and it makes me nervous knowing that she has this aggresive tendency and if she DOES actually attack someone or do any harm I would feel completley at fault because we know about this now. I have never had a dog with aggression issues and I am not completly sure how to handle this. She could of easily been from a bad breeder who's parents are aggressive and as she is maturing this behavior is just going to increase. Please Help! I do not know what to do!

 

[Nick]

It appears she's being protective, she's not being aggressive. If she was aggressive, she'd be provoking it. But in her head, the other person is provoking it by going after you (that's what she thinks they're doing). It will take time to correct this, but she may need to be socialized more. Introduced to more people, take her to home depot, Lowes, any place a dog can go. If you see a friend, shake their hand and pet Jayda afterwards and reward her (if she doesn't go after them). You can even try this at a friends house, or your parents house. Give them a high five, give them a hug, and make sure you watch Jayda to whole time. If she shows signs of not being comfortable with it, correct her and show her it's ok.

I don't have much experience with this type of issue, so take my advice with a grain of salt I'm sure someone like Dale (Pitts), Katja, Jess (marinegeekswife), Jan (JanS), or Rits would have better advice.

 

[Beau'sMomma !]

Nick you pretty much summed up what i was going to say. Beau had this problem to so I would take him ANYwhere and EVERYwhere dogs could go to get him more socialized.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

Nick, i thought maybe with the neighbors it cld be a protection thing but when we take her over there everyday why wld she not be comfortable with them all of a sudden? and why wld she of gone after me when we were alone? im just trying to understand this. She is obed. trained and is in classes for socialization. And as of her going after Paige, it was an L shaped couch and we were all the way at the other end not even near the baby and she leaped up to snap at her. This is what made me the most nervous. My mom has layed down the law and said anytime we go over there Jayda is no longer allowed to be in the room with Paige wich makes me upset because she is allwaayys with us but, I completly understand where my mom is coming from. If we wouldn't of been able to stop Jayda it could of been really bad. After that happend both the bf nd I brought her outside and both did Ob with her to show her who was boss.

 

[Beau'sMomma !]

How old is she ? She might be testing her boundarys, seeing how far she can push you.If you think she is pushing you to far take her out of the situation and do some OB with her.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

Nick you pretty much summed up what i was going to say. Beau had this problem to so I would take him ANYwhere and EVERYwhere dogs could go to get him more socialized.

We do take her everywhere, even if it is just running up to the store to grab something quick. We take her to her classes, Petsmart atleast three times a week, to the park, friends houses etc. She has foamed at the mouth, snapped at the window of the car towards other dogs but then we take her out and she tends to be a little better. . . she has gone after 2 dogs and we are workng on that as well. I just DO NOT want to have her muzzled because, people are weary of her being a doberman as it is

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

She will be 15 months as of April 10th. That is what we are doing anytime she shows aggression we take her out of the situation do some ob. and return

 

[Beau'sMomma !]

We do take her everywhere, even if it is just running up to the store to grab something quick. We take her to her classes, Petsmart atleast three times a week, to the park, friends houses etc. She has foamed at the mouth, snapped at the window of the car towards other dogs but then we take her out and she tends to be a little better. . . she has gone after 2 dogs and we are workng on that as well. I just DO NOT want to have her muzzled because, people are weary of her being a doberman as it is

The foaming at the mouth may be car sickness, when you do take her to petsmart and there is somebody else walking down the same isle it would help if you say hi to them and if she doesn't respond (negativly) reward her postivly.This is what I did with Beau and it seemed too help.

 

[Beau'sMomma !]

She will be 15 months as of April 10th. That is what we are doing anytime she shows aggression we take her out of the situation do some ob. and return

I think with the neighbors she is just testing her limits to see how far she can push you. With the baby she might have thought the baby was trying to hurt your mom and just got a bit to protective.

 

[Nick]

Ok, so I didn't know she had already snapped at two dogs as well. So, 2 dogs 3 humans she's tried to attack? If I'm right (correct me if I'm wrong), I would strongly consider a behaviorist. This has to be corrected very quickly, and unfortunately, I don't think you average petsmart trainer can fix it .

 

[Rits]

I have never dealt with a dog aggressive dog or even human aggressive dog so I don't have much experience with this other than suggesting that I think it would be a good idea to see a dog behaviorist so they can see the dog and determine what the cause is and how to deal with it. Have you brought these things up in class to your instructor? They may have someone they can recommend to you. I know at our local training facility they offer classes for DA/HA dogs. They only work with a few dogs, no more than 5 and take things one step at a time at their own pace. From the end results I've seen it appears to do them very well. When she barks at the neighbors or anything really, from your description, it sounds like it's not just an alert bark either but more of a charging/get the eff off of my territory? What do you do when she does this?

I agree that until you get her signed up, you should definitely keep her away from kids at all times. She has become a liability and you'll have to be on your toes to make sure she doesn't hurt someone.

 

[Gelcoater]

AS far as the issue with the kid I have no idea.
On the neighbors,how well do you know them?If I read right she was ok with them and now she is not?My overly suspicious red flag just started waving.

 

[Judith]

Here is an article that you might like to read, the first thing i myself would do is rule out any health problems especially if it started suddenly.

Forms of Aggression​

A dog may exhibit more than one form of aggression in varying degrees of severity.​

Illness​

​

The very first course of action when your dog shows aggression is to visit the Veterinarian for blood work to rule out a medical problem. This is especially true if your dog's aggression appeared suddenly and is escalating in intensity.​

Brain Chemistry It is possible for dogs to have a chemical imbalance just as it is with people. In humans, this manifests itself as anxiety, depression, or obsessive compulsive disorder. The treatment is also the same as it is for people - a combination of medication and behavior modification. Yes, you and your dog could both be on Prozac and undergoing therapy at the same time! ​

​

Lyme Disease Lyme disease is caused by a bacteria transmitted by ticks. It can cause sudden aggression in both dogs and humans. This culprit is often overlooked by Veterinarians, so be sure to ask for this test specifically if you think this could be your problem. Some laboratories have better tests for Lyme Disease, so be sure to ask about the accuracy as well. more...​

​

Thyroid Dysfunction Another medical problem that can cause aggression is thyroid disfunction, an abnormality in the secretion of thyroid hormone. more...​

​

Encephalitis Distemper and Rabies fall under this category. ​

​

Hypoglycemia, brain tumors, epilepsy, seizures, head trauma, and hydrocephalus in brachycephalics (water on the brain) are other potential medical causes of aggression. To summarize, anything that affects the brain or central nervous system can show aggression as a symptom.​

Pain

​

An animal in pain may bite to stop someone from hurting them. This is usually a reflexive reaction, so even a normally mild-mannered canine could bite if you hurt him. Humans have the same reflex. If you've got a broken arm and someone tries to grab it, the reflex is to strike their hand away. For this reason, always muzzle a dog who has injuries when administering aid. ​

Fear​

​

There are three possible responses to a perceived threat - fight, flight, or freeze. The dog who chooses to fight feels that the best defense is a good offense. Once again, this is true in humans as well. To protect yourself from the fear aggression of a strange dog, make yourself as unthreatening as possible. If the dog is your own, don't put him in situations where he feels the need to defend himself while you work on building his confidence. Remember, what is important is what the dog perceives to be a threat, not whether or not it actually is a threat. If you standing on one leg is perceived as threatening by a fear aggressive dog, for your safety, don't stand on one leg! ​

​

Predatory​

​

Dogs are predators. Some have a very high prey drive, some have a seemingly nonexistent prey drive, but all dogs have predatory instincts. A dog who chases and kills small animals is not abnormal. It is a dog being a dog. When predatory aggression becomes a problem is when one does not have control of the dog. A high prey drive cannot be extinguished - not without resorting to inhumane methods. However, it can be managed. more...​

​

Territorial​

​

In the wild, dogs survive primarily by scavenging. Predation is secondary. They will frequent areas where they are most likely to find food. This becomes their territory, and they will protect that territory in order to ensure that the food supply is not depleted. This is necessary in the wild for survival. Resources are not unlimited. However, it is not necessary or appropriate in the domestic environment. more...​

​

Protection​

​

Dogs with protection aggression fancy themselves a canine bodyguard. They will protect other family members, human, canine, or other, regardless of whether or not those family members wish to be protected. If your dog won't let your date touch you or the UPS driver deliver your package, there is a protection aggression problem. Unless you want to remain single for life and forget about online shopping, teach your dog that you don't need to be protected. more...​

Possession​

​

Dogs with possession aggression are overly sensitive about others coming near their things. In severe cases, people are in danger around this dog because one never knows what he will consider his and protect at all costs! In milder cases, you still need to be able to take things from him without a struggle. It could save his life. more... ​

​

Redirected/Frustration​

​

If a dog is highly agitated and cannot take it out on the object of his frustration, he may turn his focus to the nearest available outlet. He's mad at somebody else, but since he can't get to them, he will take it out on someone nearby. more...​

​

Dominance​

​

One of the most mystifying types of aggression is related to dominance. This dog wants to be master of his own destiny. He resents any attempts to control him, touch him, or otherwise direct his behavior in any way. In some cases, he may even attempt to control YOU instead! more...​

​

Maternal​

​

Moms can relate to this one. A mother dog will protect her puppies from threats, real or perceived. A normally docile animal can turn into a ferocious beast when it comes to protecting her young. Tread lightly with a mom and her pups. Dogs sometimes have false pregnancies and will protect objects as if they were puppies. This is driven by hormones, so the best course of action is a trip to the Vet. Spaying greatly reduces the risk of maternal aggression.​

​

Play

​

When dogs wrestle together in play, they often vocalize. They may growl and bark, or they may sound like Chewbacca from Star Wars. This is normal, healthy dog behavior and not an indication of an aggression problem. When dogs are play-fighting, it is more deliberate and controlled than the frenzy of a real fight. The growls are less ominous sounding and the barks less gruff, and the dogs are relaxed - not stiff. If one dog accidentally gets hurt, she will yelp and the other will stop immediately. There's no reason to prevent dogs from play fighting with one another, unless they are getting too rough to the point where they could accidentally get hurt. Play fighting will not lead to real aggression and is healthy for well-adjusted dogs. It actually helps them to learn bite inhibition and to control themselves to be more gentle when necessary. In other words, dogs who play with other dogs are less likely to become aggressive than dogs who are never allowed to play with other dogs.​

​

the full article
http://www.caretoadopt.org/info/display?PageID=2243

 

[Deepblue]

Im not trying to interupt,but Im having a similair problem with Saxon.So Im hoping to hear some good advice......He has a few times went after Heike as she has been sitting on the couch and with me in the recliner next to her.......He has come up to her and seems to ask for attention she will petting him for a bit then out of know where he has sprang up on top of her visciously growling......He has not bitten her but it is about as close as it gets........Idk
My rottweiler is with a family member at the moment since he has been in some major in house fights with her and she is not a young dog........He has came up short in all the fights except the last one.....Once he took hold of her he never let go.Im glad she had a thick coat and skin......
Im gatthering abit that Ive not set myself as the alpha male in the house.Ive been told Ive allowed him to run amuck as a young pup and now am paying the price......?
Ive also been told that I spoiled him rotten and I must agree.Ive let him do his thing.But he is now pushing 80lbs zero fat and is quick as a whip.....Idk,Idk,Idk?:shakinghead:
Im thinking dominance/aggression is his label......

 

[Max Hawk]

Here is an article that you might like to read, the first thing i myself would do is rule out any health problems especially if it started suddenly.

Forms of Aggression​

A dog may exhibit more than one form of aggression in varying degrees of severity.​

Illness​

​

The very first course of action when your dog shows aggression is to visit the Veterinarian for blood work to rule out a medical problem. This is especially true if your dog's aggression appeared suddenly and is escalating in intensity.​

Brain Chemistry It is possible for dogs to have a chemical imbalance just as it is with people. In humans, this manifests itself as anxiety, depression, or obsessive compulsive disorder. The treatment is also the same as it is for people - a combination of medication and behavior modification. Yes, you and your dog could both be on Prozac and undergoing therapy at the same time! ​

​

Lyme Disease Lyme disease is caused by a bacteria transmitted by ticks. It can cause sudden aggression in both dogs and humans. This culprit is often overlooked by Veterinarians, so be sure to ask for this test specifically if you think this could be your problem. Some laboratories have better tests for Lyme Disease, so be sure to ask about the accuracy as well. more...​

​

Thyroid Dysfunction Another medical problem that can cause aggression is thyroid disfunction, an abnormality in the secretion of thyroid hormone. more...​

​

Encephalitis Distemper and Rabies fall under this category. ​

​

Hypoglycemia, brain tumors, epilepsy, seizures, head trauma, and hydrocephalus in brachycephalics (water on the brain) are other potential medical causes of aggression. To summarize, anything that affects the brain or central nervous system can show aggression as a symptom.​

Pain

​

An animal in pain may bite to stop someone from hurting them. This is usually a reflexive reaction, so even a normally mild-mannered canine could bite if you hurt him. Humans have the same reflex. If you've got a broken arm and someone tries to grab it, the reflex is to strike their hand away. For this reason, always muzzle a dog who has injuries when administering aid. ​

Fear​

​

There are three possible responses to a perceived threat - fight, flight, or freeze. The dog who chooses to fight feels that the best defense is a good offense. Once again, this is true in humans as well. To protect yourself from the fear aggression of a strange dog, make yourself as unthreatening as possible. If the dog is your own, don't put him in situations where he feels the need to defend himself while you work on building his confidence. Remember, what is important is what the dog perceives to be a threat, not whether or not it actually is a threat. If you standing on one leg is perceived as threatening by a fear aggressive dog, for your safety, don't stand on one leg! ​

​

Predatory​

​

Dogs are predators. Some have a very high prey drive, some have a seemingly nonexistent prey drive, but all dogs have predatory instincts. A dog who chases and kills small animals is not abnormal. It is a dog being a dog. When predatory aggression becomes a problem is when one does not have control of the dog. A high prey drive cannot be extinguished - not without resorting to inhumane methods. However, it can be managed. more...​

​

Territorial​

​

In the wild, dogs survive primarily by scavenging. Predation is secondary. They will frequent areas where they are most likely to find food. This becomes their territory, and they will protect that territory in order to ensure that the food supply is not depleted. This is necessary in the wild for survival. Resources are not unlimited. However, it is not necessary or appropriate in the domestic environment. more...​

​

Protection​

​

Dogs with protection aggression fancy themselves a canine bodyguard. They will protect other family members, human, canine, or other, regardless of whether or not those family members wish to be protected. If your dog won't let your date touch you or the UPS driver deliver your package, there is a protection aggression problem. Unless you want to remain single for life and forget about online shopping, teach your dog that you don't need to be protected. more...​

Possession​

​

Dogs with possession aggression are overly sensitive about others coming near their things. In severe cases, people are in danger around this dog because one never knows what he will consider his and protect at all costs! In milder cases, you still need to be able to take things from him without a struggle. It could save his life. more... ​

​

Redirected/Frustration​

​

If a dog is highly agitated and cannot take it out on the object of his frustration, he may turn his focus to the nearest available outlet. He's mad at somebody else, but since he can't get to them, he will take it out on someone nearby. more...​

​

Dominance​

​

One of the most mystifying types of aggression is related to dominance. This dog wants to be master of his own destiny. He resents any attempts to control him, touch him, or otherwise direct his behavior in any way. In some cases, he may even attempt to control YOU instead! more...​

​

Maternal​

​

Moms can relate to this one. A mother dog will protect her puppies from threats, real or perceived. A normally docile animal can turn into a ferocious beast when it comes to protecting her young. Tread lightly with a mom and her pups. Dogs sometimes have false pregnancies and will protect objects as if they were puppies. This is driven by hormones, so the best course of action is a trip to the Vet. Spaying greatly reduces the risk of maternal aggression.​

​

Play

​

When dogs wrestle together in play, they often vocalize. They may growl and bark, or they may sound like Chewbacca from Star Wars. This is normal, healthy dog behavior and not an indication of an aggression problem. When dogs are play-fighting, it is more deliberate and controlled than the frenzy of a real fight. The growls are less ominous sounding and the barks less gruff, and the dogs are relaxed - not stiff. If one dog accidentally gets hurt, she will yelp and the other will stop immediately. There's no reason to prevent dogs from play fighting with one another, unless they are getting too rough to the point where they could accidentally get hurt. Play fighting will not lead to real aggression and is healthy for well-adjusted dogs. It actually helps them to learn bite inhibition and to control themselves to be more gentle when necessary. In other words, dogs who play with other dogs are less likely to become aggressive than dogs who are never allowed to play with other dogs.​

​

the full article
http://www.caretoadopt.org/info/display?PageID=2243

Very helpful articles Judith..I love how it was divided into the types of aggression! A good read for most people with any kind of aggression problems!

 

[Judith]

Very helpful articles Judith..I love how it was divided into the types of aggression! A good read for most people with any kind of aggression problems!

Thanks, yes there are many different types of aggression most people think it is all rolled into one parcel but unless you understand what your dog is showing you their is no chance of you putting it right I only hope it helps as it is very concerning that the dog would go after a baby, most Dobes I know adore children and are very submissive to them, aggression is never a phase it only intensify's it is going to take a lot of work to sort Jayda's problems out you have to be in it for the long haul

 

[Max Hawk]

Thanks, yes there are many different types of aggression most people think it is all rolled into one parcel but unless you understand what your dog is showing you their is no chance of you putting it right I only hope it helps as it is very concerning that the dog would go after a baby, most Dobes I know adore children and are very submissive to them, aggression is never a phase it only intensify's it is going to take a lot of work to sort Jayda's problems out you have to be in it for the long haul

For sure Judith that's why I am very loath to recommend someone adopting an older dog without very very careful consideration! It is so much more ideal raising one from a puppy! That being said once the deed is done ya need to do all you can to fix the problem! It sure wouldn't hurt to try and get someone like Cesar to help ..what the heck nothing ventured nothing gained! You don't know what happened to Jayda in the past and that's part of your problem! Why don't ya try to get Cesar it's a long shot but you could try he loves dobermans and if you present your case well ya might even get him to work on Jayda that would be so awesome!

 

[Dobs4ever]

she's not being aggressive. If she was aggressive, she'd be provoking it.

This is not exactly a true statement. Regardless the time has come to get professional helpe before you get someone hurt accidently.

It has to be dealt with immediatley and it has to be corrected immediately. It is very hard for new people to read and understand what is going on with a dog and what triggers it. Yes I would have the thyroid checked but on a dog this young it is highly unlikely that thyroid is the problem.

I never recommend removing the dog from the problem. We stay there and address it til it is solved once and for all. Since you have had on going issues that seem to be escalating beyond her just snapping at you it is time to call in the big guns. Find a Schutzhund trainer hopefully one that has worked with Dobermans. Each breed is different and handling appropriately is the key. I don't recommend behavorist for the most part because most of them never truly deal with dominant breed dogs and they tend to think it is easier to put them down.

Schutzhund trainers deal with these guys every day. - There is just too much suddenly going on and it seems to be escalating not improving or staying confined to one area. I will say you have done a great job trying to take her places and work with her so it is not your fault it is not working. You need help at this point.

 

[Max Hawk]

This is not exactly a true statement. Regardless the time has come to get professional helpe before you get someone hurt accidently.

It has to be dealt with immediatley and it has to be corrected immediately. It is very hard for new people to read and understand what is going on with a dog and what triggers it. Yes I would have the thyroid checked but on a dog this young it is highly unlikely that thyroid is the problem.

I never recommend removing the dog from the problem. We stay there and address it til it is solved once and for all. Since you have had on going issues that seem to be escalating beyond her just snapping at you it is time to call in the big guns. Find a Schutzhund trainer hopefully one that has worked with Dobermans. Each breed is different and handling appropriately is the key. I don't recommend behavorist for the most part because most of them never truly deal with dominant breed dogs and they tend to think it is easier to put them down.

Schutzhund trainers deal with these guys every day. - There is just too much suddenly going on and it seems to be escalating not improving or staying confined to one area. I will say you have done a great job trying to take her places and work with her so it is not your fault it is not working. You need help at this point.

Amen Suzan!That is what is great about Cesar he's a behavorist that totally deals with dominant breeds! I hope there are other good ones out there besides Cesar! It's so hard for us to diagnose acurately.. we have no knowledge of how much exercise ect Jayda gets nor the true dynamics in the household! I did have one more thought though and please don't take this the wrong way! You seem to be so taken a back by her behavior that it seems you need to be much more aggessive in your responses such as when she goes after you! Don't be confused you need to act to correct right then and there! Taking her out later for OB is not going to help so much as you correcting her at the moment of her acting out! But I do think a professional is needed here to give you more confidence!

 

[Katja Henriksen]

My first thought is that something might be wrong with her!! Have you had her checked out by a vet? We have had other members with dogs that suddenly got 'aggressive' and would lash out and it turned out they were in pain.

I would make sure to have anything medical ruled out to begin with before assuming it's a training issue.