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Why is raw feeding so hard for the neophyte to understand?
- Thread starter Denissov43
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Pitts
Hot Topics Subscriber
hahaha,
Well Katja, I also have a GSD and train SchH with her as well.
TrinityDobes
Novitiate
DreamValley - THANK YOU this is exactly what I was hoping to get as a response, what source of raw protein is fed and how often. For people different types of beef, pork, chicken turkey and fish, have different calorie and fat content, I assume it is the same for the dogs
I see you are using the ground Bison Tails 2 times a week, so that is the sole source for Calcium in your raw diet.
What in the above feeding provides fat for the dog? I know there is a lot of fat between the skin of a chicken and duck, bison I thought was lower in fat? and it depends on the beef marbleing as to how much fat that raw product will provide. To the casual observer this menu seems to be low in fat and since Fat is one of the main energy sources for dogs I am just curious as to the fat source in a raw diet?
I see you add juiced veggies which then provides the fiber, vitamines and minerals to round out and make the diet balanced!
Do you consider the juiced beans to be carbohydrates? or additional protein in the raw form? If they are protein then do you add any carbohydrates to the diet?
Again Thank you! this is a great response.
Would what you feed and there combinations change if the dog was a puppy? or a senior? or do you feel this menu is an all stages menu?
DreamValley - thank you again - this is really interesting, can you also share how long you have been following a raw regimen? and did you do a gradual switch? or cold turkey? *LOL* no pun in tended!
I see you are using the ground Bison Tails 2 times a week, so that is the sole source for Calcium in your raw diet.
What in the above feeding provides fat for the dog? I know there is a lot of fat between the skin of a chicken and duck, bison I thought was lower in fat? and it depends on the beef marbleing as to how much fat that raw product will provide. To the casual observer this menu seems to be low in fat and since Fat is one of the main energy sources for dogs I am just curious as to the fat source in a raw diet?
I see you add juiced veggies which then provides the fiber, vitamines and minerals to round out and make the diet balanced!
Do you consider the juiced beans to be carbohydrates? or additional protein in the raw form? If they are protein then do you add any carbohydrates to the diet?
Again Thank you! this is a great response.
Would what you feed and there combinations change if the dog was a puppy? or a senior? or do you feel this menu is an all stages menu?
DreamValley - thank you again - this is really interesting, can you also share how long you have been following a raw regimen? and did you do a gradual switch? or cold turkey? *LOL* no pun in tended!
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
I did have a bitch come in for breeding once and she was fed raw. Along with all her stuff I got a little freezer full of individual prepared meals - Open one AM and one AM to feed her for the week she was here. - Folks I don't even go to that much trouble for us.
My son feeds raw to his Huskie and says that it is highly recommended for this breed as when they are doing what they were bred to do they often eat meat killed along the trail for food and itis raw.
I think you can have healthy dogs either way - I kow some that did not do well on raw and some that did not do well on kibble - Dogs are individual - I think you need to find what works for you and your schedule and works well for your dog and unless you have problems I would not jump off the deep end to change. My dogs work and perform on a kibble. It is much easier for me if I am traveling and showing. I don't have to worry about keeping food properly chilled - I don't want raw food all over my floor - I know my son puts Loki outside to eat but for more than one or two dogs that is a big job in itself.
Raw just doesn't fit my lifestyle but if I had cold hard facts and no dogs lived quality long lives on kibble I would seriously look at adjusting my lifestyle.
Thanks Dale for all the input and pictures.
My son feeds raw to his Huskie and says that it is highly recommended for this breed as when they are doing what they were bred to do they often eat meat killed along the trail for food and itis raw.
I think you can have healthy dogs either way - I kow some that did not do well on raw and some that did not do well on kibble - Dogs are individual - I think you need to find what works for you and your schedule and works well for your dog and unless you have problems I would not jump off the deep end to change. My dogs work and perform on a kibble. It is much easier for me if I am traveling and showing. I don't have to worry about keeping food properly chilled - I don't want raw food all over my floor - I know my son puts Loki outside to eat but for more than one or two dogs that is a big job in itself.
Raw just doesn't fit my lifestyle but if I had cold hard facts and no dogs lived quality long lives on kibble I would seriously look at adjusting my lifestyle.
Thanks Dale for all the input and pictures.
Katja Henriksen
Forum Sponsor
Does this count as RAW feeding? HA HA HA Easter found this dead Squirrel in the dog park, and I had to pull it out of her throat. YUK.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
I am glad I answered your questions Gail.
Gino is a lucky boy because I had no choice. He got loose stools and itchy skin when I fed him Orijen. I suspected allergy and switched him to raw.
We started with chicken (no kibble) and added a new source of protein every week. Each dog is different and adjustements are needed.
EX) I could not feed him too much bone. He got constipations when most dogs get diarrhea when they start raw.
It's scary when a dog swallows a bone. His poop made me happy many times!
My further answers in blue.
Gino is a lucky boy because I had no choice. He got loose stools and itchy skin when I fed him Orijen. I suspected allergy and switched him to raw.
We started with chicken (no kibble) and added a new source of protein every week. Each dog is different and adjustements are needed.
EX) I could not feed him too much bone. He got constipations when most dogs get diarrhea when they start raw.
It's scary when a dog swallows a bone. His poop made me happy many times!
My further answers in blue.
DreamValley - THANK YOU this is exactly what I was hoping to get as a response, what source of raw protein is fed and how often. For people different types of beef, pork, chicken turkey and fish, have different calorie and fat content, I assume it is the same for the dogs
.
I see you are using the ground Bison Tails 2 times a week, so that is the sole source for Calcium in your raw diet.
Ground duck and chicken with bone and it's fat. Also my boy gets bison and beef meaty bones, duck feet and necks (RMB)
What in the above feeding provides fat for the dog? I know there is a lot of fat between the skin of a chicken and duck, bison I thought was lower in fat? and it depends on the beef marbleing as to how much fat that raw product will provide. To the casual observer this menu seems to be low in fat and since Fat is one of the main energy sources for dogs I am just curious as to the fat source in a raw diet?
Yes bison and beef chunks are very lean and organs have no fat but ground duck and chicken contains so much fat!
Also ground tails/heart/tonque is quite fatty too. Have you seen how much fat around an animal heart and a tonque?
I see you add juiced veggies which then provides the fiber, vitamines and minerals to round out and make the diet balanced!
Do you consider the juiced beans to be carbohydrates? or additional protein in the raw form?
If they are protein then do you add any carbohydrates to the diet?
Spinach, breen beans and pumkin (I missed it from my list) provides a bit carbs. I am not sure how much carbs dogs need but I noticed Gino was asking for a piece of bread. I am thinking to add oatmeal.
Vegetables (serving size)
Carbs (g)
Peas, green, cooked (1 cup)
25g
Peppers, green (1 cup)
10g
Pumpkin, cooked, mashed (1 cup)
12g
Radishes, raw (1 cup)
4g
Spinach, cooked (1 cup)
7g
Squash, zucchini, cooked (1 cup)
8g
Squash, winter, acorn, cooked (1 cup)
30g
Succotash, cooked (1 cup)
47g
Sweet potato, baked w/skin (large)
44g
Tomatoes, raw (1 cup)
8g
Turnip, cooked, mashed (1 cup)
11g
Again Thank you! this is a great response.
Would what you feed and there combinations change if the dog was a puppy? or a senior? or do you feel this menu is an all stages menu?
Oh yes... puppy need more calcium and correct calcium/phosphorous ratio. Basically bones are calcium, muscle meat is phosphorious.
Puppy needs a ration 1.2/1. The adult dog 0.9/1.
I could not feed too much bones. 1/2tbs spoon of homemade eggshell powder worked awesome. I don't add it to his food anymore.
DreamValley - thank you again - this is really interesting, can you also share how long you have been following a raw regimen? and did you do a gradual switch? or cold turkey? *LOL* no pun in tended!
I have been feeding raw since he was 5 months. He is almost 2. It's going well. His coat is gorgeous. He is full of beans
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
That's adorable picture. A calm and confident owner and a beautiful alert dog!
You should frame it
I absolutely love your boy face. Do I remember correctly the previous owner could not handle him? Your boy looks so content now....
You should frame it
I absolutely love your boy face. Do I remember correctly the previous owner could not handle him? Your boy looks so content now....
Now in looking at these pics, you can see my male dobermann, and in those pics you can plainly see the great musculature, and great coat he has, Those are not pics of an UNhealthy dog, but rather a healthy dog full of energy and drive.
TrinityDobes
Novitiate
Great information DreamValley,
I think this helps those that have never fed raw understand it a lot better!
I would be interested in seeing what others menus are like, I am sure it may depend on what area of the country, or even what country you live in. The "extras" after butchering seem to be much more readily available in some areas.
I think this helps those that have never fed raw understand it a lot better!
I would be interested in seeing what others menus are like, I am sure it may depend on what area of the country, or even what country you live in. The "extras" after butchering seem to be much more readily available in some areas.
Denissov43
Notable member
Dream Valley: My view points exactly...
we are human beings and we eat whatever we want because we were raised to eat whatever we want. We are not aware that most human beings have a lactose intolerance, a sugar intolerance, a wheat intolerance and that most of us cannot digest most of the meat we consume... we never consider the caloric intake, the mineral value, the protein to fat ratio or any of those things. We eat when we are hungry and we satisfy our hunger with what sounds good that day, week, month etc...
Thank you for sharing what you feed your dogs and why and what goes on in your head when you feed them.
You and I are on the same page here with regards to dietary concerns for our dogs.. we agree and know that they are Canid's which are in the carnivore family and if they were in the wild, they would find prey and eat it based on what was available to them that day, week, month etc... they would eat the flesh, organs, some of the bones and if they ate the intestines they might be consuming some fiber matter, but since most canid's hunt a pack, not all the members of the pack would be eating the same amount of the various edible parts of that animal that they killed. Some would get organs, some would get only flesh and bone and some would get intestines and the fur, the head, the tail and the brains would be left for the carrion eaters....
Hence. the real diet of a canid is primarly flesh and bone with the occasional organ meat and the occasional intestines with fiberous plant matter.. the rest would be flesh... ocassionally they might get a fish, a salmon if in the Pacific northwest or perhaps a bass or trout if near a stream, once in a rare while they might catch a bird and have fowl, and or rabbit, perhaps an egg if very industrious and found a hen house.. but for the most part Canids live on large game animals like deer, elk, sheep, rabbit, and lizards...
so having a balanced diet that addresses the concerns that come with adequate minerals and vitamins is addressed in the aquisition of large fleshy game animals that have alot of lean meat and large and smaller bones to ingest and digest... that issue of their adequate vitamins and minerals is addressed in that singular aquisition... they eat flesh and they eat it raw and they eat everything that they can acquire RAW and FRESH and without any additives, or suppliments at all...
I feed my dogs the same way... I give them a diverse diet of as much raw, fresh meat and bone with the occasional addition of organ meats, and tripe, and chicken feet, necks, backs, turkey necks, backs, legs and thighs, salmon raw, white fish raw, and the occasional grated carrot, chopped kale, kelp powder, and a vitamin C supplement (2000 mg a day) in one variety of ground meat ball a day...
they eat approxl. 1 lb a meat a day.. and I make sure to keep their diet diverse monthly. I consider what they would do if I were not around to feed them and there was a mass death of all the human populus and they were left to fend for themselves and survive... I feed them the meat and produce that I myself eat and I get it from natural food stores where I can get Hormone free, steroid free if possible.
I myself am 53 yrs old and have eaten a very healthy diet and have used Homoepathic treatments and natural alternative medicine all my life. I have gone they advice of Naturopaths for animals as well as Veterinarians like Dr. Pitcairn, Dr. Billingshurst, Dr. Marty and others who are long time proponents and advocates of raw diets for dogs... there are so many valuable, valid, solid resources out there if someone wants to change.... and to accept the truth that Dogs are Canids and wild dogs of all types, wolves, foxes, and domestic dogs all have the same digestive system and nutritional needs... they are decendents of wolves and wolves are their direct relatives and if cats are related to big cats and they are carnivores.. so are Canids... its a fact that is not disputable...
Here is a qoute from Dr. Billingshurst an Australian Veterinarian and author of "The BARF diet":
and I qoute him entirely here...
"The sad truth is that prepared pet foods help provide patients for vets."
"Raw chicken does of course carry bacteria, e.g., Salmonella. These are of absolutely no consequence to a healthy dog.
As a veterinary student in the early seventies, I found it hard to understand why Aussie vets had fewer and simpler dog and cat diseases to deal with than the Americans. It seemed to make the Aussie vet seem somehow inferior. But, We did not need to be trained to the same high degree of complexity and sophistication.
There was a simple explanation.
At that time, more than seventy percent of Aussie dogs were still fed raw bones and scrapes. They were still pretty healthy.
Whereas, American dogs had been eating processed food and no bones for decades. Therefore, They had developed a wide range of problems. Their (American) vets had been forced to develop a complex set of diagnostic and therapeutic tools to deal with them. I need not have worried. Our dogs' disease problems are increasing on a par with their increasing consumption of processed and cooked foods.
We Aussie vets now have to be as good as our American counterparts to deal with them. There are many reasons why the commercial pet foods have never been close to a dog's natural diet. Those reasons include the fact that they are based on grain, and that they are cooked."
The truth about raw food is simple... it has enzymes and nutritional factors and constituents that are killed when cooked and processed... those factors and enzymes and constituents are what makes the diet perfect for canids... Wolves, dont have cancer, tumors, skin allergies, calcium deficiencies, liver toxicity, arthritis, degenerative joint disease, cardiac issues, Von Wildebrands disease, and on and on.. because for centuries they have been eating what nature intended them to eat... they survive on the sources of food that nature and evolution provided for them and they thrive on it...so would their cousins "domestic dogs' if we would simplify their and our life by feeding them and ourselves a more natural diet that consists of primarily raw and unprocessed foods and pure clean water... we do not need to calculate anything for their diet, if we feed them what 'God" gave them to eat as Canids....
how can we improve upon what NATURE made???
we cannot... and Purina sure as hell cannot!
we are human beings and we eat whatever we want because we were raised to eat whatever we want. We are not aware that most human beings have a lactose intolerance, a sugar intolerance, a wheat intolerance and that most of us cannot digest most of the meat we consume... we never consider the caloric intake, the mineral value, the protein to fat ratio or any of those things. We eat when we are hungry and we satisfy our hunger with what sounds good that day, week, month etc...
Thank you for sharing what you feed your dogs and why and what goes on in your head when you feed them.
You and I are on the same page here with regards to dietary concerns for our dogs.. we agree and know that they are Canid's which are in the carnivore family and if they were in the wild, they would find prey and eat it based on what was available to them that day, week, month etc... they would eat the flesh, organs, some of the bones and if they ate the intestines they might be consuming some fiber matter, but since most canid's hunt a pack, not all the members of the pack would be eating the same amount of the various edible parts of that animal that they killed. Some would get organs, some would get only flesh and bone and some would get intestines and the fur, the head, the tail and the brains would be left for the carrion eaters....
Hence. the real diet of a canid is primarly flesh and bone with the occasional organ meat and the occasional intestines with fiberous plant matter.. the rest would be flesh... ocassionally they might get a fish, a salmon if in the Pacific northwest or perhaps a bass or trout if near a stream, once in a rare while they might catch a bird and have fowl, and or rabbit, perhaps an egg if very industrious and found a hen house.. but for the most part Canids live on large game animals like deer, elk, sheep, rabbit, and lizards...
so having a balanced diet that addresses the concerns that come with adequate minerals and vitamins is addressed in the aquisition of large fleshy game animals that have alot of lean meat and large and smaller bones to ingest and digest... that issue of their adequate vitamins and minerals is addressed in that singular aquisition... they eat flesh and they eat it raw and they eat everything that they can acquire RAW and FRESH and without any additives, or suppliments at all...
I feed my dogs the same way... I give them a diverse diet of as much raw, fresh meat and bone with the occasional addition of organ meats, and tripe, and chicken feet, necks, backs, turkey necks, backs, legs and thighs, salmon raw, white fish raw, and the occasional grated carrot, chopped kale, kelp powder, and a vitamin C supplement (2000 mg a day) in one variety of ground meat ball a day...
they eat approxl. 1 lb a meat a day.. and I make sure to keep their diet diverse monthly. I consider what they would do if I were not around to feed them and there was a mass death of all the human populus and they were left to fend for themselves and survive... I feed them the meat and produce that I myself eat and I get it from natural food stores where I can get Hormone free, steroid free if possible.
I myself am 53 yrs old and have eaten a very healthy diet and have used Homoepathic treatments and natural alternative medicine all my life. I have gone they advice of Naturopaths for animals as well as Veterinarians like Dr. Pitcairn, Dr. Billingshurst, Dr. Marty and others who are long time proponents and advocates of raw diets for dogs... there are so many valuable, valid, solid resources out there if someone wants to change.... and to accept the truth that Dogs are Canids and wild dogs of all types, wolves, foxes, and domestic dogs all have the same digestive system and nutritional needs... they are decendents of wolves and wolves are their direct relatives and if cats are related to big cats and they are carnivores.. so are Canids... its a fact that is not disputable...
Here is a qoute from Dr. Billingshurst an Australian Veterinarian and author of "The BARF diet":
and I qoute him entirely here...
"The sad truth is that prepared pet foods help provide patients for vets."
"Raw chicken does of course carry bacteria, e.g., Salmonella. These are of absolutely no consequence to a healthy dog.
As a veterinary student in the early seventies, I found it hard to understand why Aussie vets had fewer and simpler dog and cat diseases to deal with than the Americans. It seemed to make the Aussie vet seem somehow inferior. But, We did not need to be trained to the same high degree of complexity and sophistication.
There was a simple explanation.
At that time, more than seventy percent of Aussie dogs were still fed raw bones and scrapes. They were still pretty healthy.
Whereas, American dogs had been eating processed food and no bones for decades. Therefore, They had developed a wide range of problems. Their (American) vets had been forced to develop a complex set of diagnostic and therapeutic tools to deal with them. I need not have worried. Our dogs' disease problems are increasing on a par with their increasing consumption of processed and cooked foods.
We Aussie vets now have to be as good as our American counterparts to deal with them. There are many reasons why the commercial pet foods have never been close to a dog's natural diet. Those reasons include the fact that they are based on grain, and that they are cooked."
The truth about raw food is simple... it has enzymes and nutritional factors and constituents that are killed when cooked and processed... those factors and enzymes and constituents are what makes the diet perfect for canids... Wolves, dont have cancer, tumors, skin allergies, calcium deficiencies, liver toxicity, arthritis, degenerative joint disease, cardiac issues, Von Wildebrands disease, and on and on.. because for centuries they have been eating what nature intended them to eat... they survive on the sources of food that nature and evolution provided for them and they thrive on it...so would their cousins "domestic dogs' if we would simplify their and our life by feeding them and ourselves a more natural diet that consists of primarily raw and unprocessed foods and pure clean water... we do not need to calculate anything for their diet, if we feed them what 'God" gave them to eat as Canids....
how can we improve upon what NATURE made???
we cannot... and Purina sure as hell cannot!
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
Be careful with raw salmon.
Salmon poisoning is fatal for dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_poisoning_disease
Salmon poisoning is fatal for dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_poisoning_disease
Pitts
Hot Topics Subscriber
Dreamvalley,That's adorable picture. A calm and confident owner and a beautiful alert dog!
You should frame it
I absolutely love your boy face. Do I remember correctly the previous owner could not handle him? Your boy looks so content now....
Thank you so much for the compliments to both me and my boy, and yes your correct, in your recollection, but actually it was four owners before me, two of them proffesional trainers, I am the fifth home for him, as those that had him before could not handle him, as he is a very dominant and what would be termed "hard" dog, and has over the top prey drive, the second owner let him go because as an adolescent he was killing their goats on the farm. He is great here, and has truly become a member of our family, he sleeps in my and my wifes room in his bed at the foot of ours, and once its light in the morning, he is allowed to get in our bed with us and the female dobe, and he does LOVE that. He is a very different dog than when we got him and has truly benefitted from working in SchH, and from being in our pack here at home.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
Your boy has found his purpose.
My Gino is still looking for.... a poor puzzled Euro boy who became a tug addict
Sorry for off-topic.
My Gino is still looking for.... a poor puzzled Euro boy who became a tug addict
Sorry for off-topic.
Denissov43
Notable member
Dreamvalley
great info on Salmon... rare obscure disease I see that even affects Bears.. who live on the stuff...
good to know! I feed raw frozen fish to My dogs and it has been catfish or Tilapia... I have given left over cooked salmon to my dogs and they love it and my huge 28 lb Marmalade cat, gags on salmon... go figure!
great info on Salmon... rare obscure disease I see that even affects Bears.. who live on the stuff...
good to know! I feed raw frozen fish to My dogs and it has been catfish or Tilapia... I have given left over cooked salmon to my dogs and they love it and my huge 28 lb Marmalade cat, gags on salmon... go figure!
Pitts
Hot Topics Subscriber
HAHA, DV, I am sure you might have had something to do with that. LOLYour boy has found his purpose.
My Gino is still looking for.... a poor puzzled Euro boy who became a tug addict
Sorry for off-topic.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
(quote)we are human beings and we eat whatever we want because we were raised to eat whatever we want. We are not aware that most human beings have a lactose intolerance, a sugar intolerance, a wheat intolerance and that most of us cannot digest most of the meat we consume... we never consider the caloric intake, the mineral value, the protein to fat ratio or any of those things.(quote)
Every single word of this could be true and there are muggings every 30 seconds and murders every 7 seconds, germs are everywhere and they are getting immune to antibiotics and people live and people die and so on and so on but I choose not to live my life in fear of what might be. It is in God's hands and I choose to let HIM worry about it so I can enjoy some of my life.
I take it you are a vegetarian or vegan maybe you already said that and I missed it. That works for some folks and I have no problem with it, but give me steak, milk LOVE milk, etc and let someone else worry about all the stuff that is or should be wrong. Life is too short for me to live in such a stringent world.
I thank the heavens that my dogs are not having to forage out in the wild for what they can find. It is a hard life and I feel it is much more cruel than the life of luxury they live with their kibble where they are never hungry for even one day. If they could talk and I asked them I am sure they would agree life on the couch is better than life in the cold hard world.
Every single word of this could be true and there are muggings every 30 seconds and murders every 7 seconds, germs are everywhere and they are getting immune to antibiotics and people live and people die and so on and so on but I choose not to live my life in fear of what might be. It is in God's hands and I choose to let HIM worry about it so I can enjoy some of my life.
I take it you are a vegetarian or vegan maybe you already said that and I missed it. That works for some folks and I have no problem with it, but give me steak, milk LOVE milk, etc and let someone else worry about all the stuff that is or should be wrong. Life is too short for me to live in such a stringent world.
I thank the heavens that my dogs are not having to forage out in the wild for what they can find. It is a hard life and I feel it is much more cruel than the life of luxury they live with their kibble where they are never hungry for even one day. If they could talk and I asked them I am sure they would agree life on the couch is better than life in the cold hard world.
My interpretation of this was that we as humans do not sit around obsessing about what we eat even though it may not be a perfect diet for us and that feeding a dog shouldn't be much more complicated than feeding ourselves.
Maybe Denissov will clarify for us.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
Food should be a pleasure not a science for consumers.
I feed my boy raw and take it easy. If I have to switch to kibble tomorrow I would.
It's like eating steak or sausage
I feed my boy raw and take it easy. If I have to switch to kibble tomorrow I would.
It's like eating steak or sausage
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