What the Bite?!

[Ravenbird]

Masaya, Benchmark, Landgraf, Apexe and more come to mind for serious working dogs. They usually give priority to working homes although I've seen their dogs in other active sports.

My challenge (and I've heard similar from a couple of GSD buyers) is there is not much going on out West.

Ground Zero Schutzhund Club is in Southern California, Christian Gomez is an outstanding trainer/decoy and works with all breeds. Some of his club members went to the USCA regional championship in AZ earlier this year and placed 1st & 2nd with a Doberman placing 2nd (USCA is all breed trial but GSDs dominate). If you are anywhere near this club I would contact them for at least a visit and express your interest in working Dobermans. Asha and I had the pleasure of a 2-day workshop with him years ago.

 

[GennyB]

Landgraf

Wendy is pretty much done. She's doing the horse thing now.
I saw her trial a few times and she is probably my favorite to watch work a dog. It's a sight to behold and she makes it look so effoertless.

 

[BGpa]

I don't get into what particular trials they do. I just know that, as you alluded to, there is a lot of travel involved even in training with a working club; and that is what always prevented me from doing it, except for when there was a startup club that would meet about 15 miles from my house.

Yep- its a lifestyle at the top end of competition, as it seems to be also in show dog world.

I'd need another lifetime to get into it, but enjoy learning by reading, watching from the peanut gallery...and take home a few tips to apply to our family pet guardian and trail pal...Bonnie the BYB.

Nosework is a natural...she's got some hunting dog in her...so we've been fooling with a couple made up games...she's too clever by half, than I tho...have to invent new things...

 

[BGpa]

Masaya, Benchmark, Landgraf, Apexe and more come to mind for serious working dogs. They usually give priority to working homes although I've seen their dogs in other active sports.


Ground Zero Schutzhund Club is in Southern California, Christian Gomez is an outstanding trainer/decoy and works with all breeds. Some of his club members went to the USCA regional championship in AZ earlier this year and placed 1st & 2nd with a Doberman placing 2nd (USCA is all breed trial but GSDs dominate). If you are anywhere near this club I would contact them for at least a visit and express your interest in working Dobermans. Asha and I had the pleasure of a 2-day workshop with him years ago.


View attachment 154798

Thanks @Ravenbird so much!
Was hoping to catch your eye (and others with experience, knowledge) on this topic - once fire threat receded some...

Really appreciate yours and others insight archived here here on the working world.
(... Not so much on the other webforum which is fine- show-dogs have lots to offer just not my main dog interest.)

It can be tricky to find the right folks without an insider tip- so much self promoting BS on social media...dog training reminds me of horse training...daughters time in hunter- jumpers was a hoot for the people watching alone) Horses...now there are some sacred creatures, too...

I will check in after and let you know how it went.
Bonnie is sweet, smart, softer temperament so I'm training her as BWs SD...
I *may* have another big dog left in me...and seriously mulling over an uncut male working line to go with our spayed dobegirl household...in a year or so...

So doing some homework along with my other "honeydo's"...

Say, wasn't retirement supposed to be LESS work?

 

[Ravenbird]

Wendy is pretty much done. She's doing the horse thing now.
I saw her trial a few times and she is probably my favorite to watch work a dog

I don't know about working them, but she still has one or two litters a year it seems. She has a litter due this month! A really nice person it seems, she was one of the few breeders who actually replied to me 6 or 7 years ago when I was searching for a puppy.

This litter (a little over a year ago) was brought up here on the forum last year - at least one puppy went overseas from that breeding if I remember right.

Vom Landgraf litter… Blast from the past

I *may* have another big dog left in me...and seriously mulling over an uncut male working line to go with our household...in a year or so...
So doing some homework along with my other "honeydo's"....
Say, wasn't retirement supposed to be LESS work?

LOL, I was going to say, these dogs will not let you rest. Most make fine home companions and have good temperaments but they absolutely don't want to live quietly in the house as a couch potato. If you're even toying with the idea, try to find time to visit that club in CA to see what it's like and what it takes. I thought I could do so much on my own like Obedience and tracking and fit in the protection at a distant club. I thought wrong. You can play a little bit and have fun, but if you've never done protection work with a dog you won't get far without a club. Then you better have plan B to keep your dog busy - I choose nose work & some AKC obedience, and put in miles hiking, but if I play some bitey games she's the happiest.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Yep- its a lifestyle at the top end of competition, as it seems to be also in show dog world.

I'd need another lifetime to get into it, but enjoy learning by reading, watching from the peanut gallery...and take home a few tips to apply to our family pet guardian and trail pal...Bonnie the BYB.

Nosework is a natural...she's got some hunting dog in her...so we've been fooling with a couple made up games...she's too clever by half, than I tho...have to invent new things...

Oh yes, it's a good thing to take knowledge from where you can and apply it if it's useful.

If I EVER get it transferred to digital, maybe I'll post a vid. of my first (hobby bred) Doberman air-scenting my only apartment key that I had thrown out into a big soccer field. Scentwork is so fascinating. There's nothing like seeing that slight head jerk they get when they finally latch onto a scent.

 

[BGpa]

I don't know about working them, but she still has one or two litters a year it seems. She has a litter due this month! A really nice person it seems, she was one of the few breeders who actually replied to me 6 or 7 years ago when I was searching for a puppy.

This litter (a little over a year ago) was brought up here on the forum last year - at least one puppy went overseas from that breeding if I remember right.

Vom Landgraf litter… Blast from the past



LOL, I was going to say, these dogs will not let you rest. Most make fine home companions and have good temperaments but they absolutely don't want to live quietly in the house as a couch potato. If you're even toying with the idea, try to find time to visit that club in CA to see what it's like and what it takes. I thought I could do so much on my own like Obedience and tracking and fit in the protection at a distant club. I thought wrong. You can play a little bit and have fun, but if you've never done protection work with a dog you won't get far without a club. Then you better have plan B to keep your dog busy - I choose nose work & some AKC obedience, and put in miles hiking, but if I play some bitey games she's the happiest.

I think Bonnie (and I!) will top out at about same as your level, lots of hiking and camping in our future, more games, etc for sure.
But...never hurts to dream:
Thanks so much for the tip on GroundZero. Found them on FB.
Looks like they have a big seminar coming up I could audit for a day or two to watch ...

Olu Floyd Protection Workshop @ GZSC

Sports event in Escondido, CA by Ground Zero Schutzhund Club and 2 others on Saturday, August 23 2025

www.facebook.com

Looks very intriguing. Will let ya know!

 

[Aaron56]

I *may* have another big dog left in me...and seriously mulling over an uncut male working line to go with our spayed dobegirl household...in a year or so...

So doing some homework along with my other "honeydo's"...

Say, wasn't retirement supposed to be LESS work?

I am starting to get the same thoughts myself about how long I will be able to keep a Doberman around.

Getting snatched off ones feet when they get to the end of their leads and then drug down the driveway whilst the girls are chasing a stray whatever out of the yard is 'uncomfortable' when in the 30's. That same shit takes a lot longer to shake off if in the 50's...

 

[Ravenbird]

Thanks so much for the tip on GroundZero. Found them on FB.
Looks like they have a big seminar coming up I could audit for a day or two to watch .

Olu Floyd is one of the best in the biz. This would be a great way to learn the overall work it takes to get a good IGP dog, but may or may not address the differences between breeds.

 

[BGpa]

...

The trainer's name is Hazaar (Haz) Othman. Shield K9 is his business and his YouTube channel name. He's got an Instagram and has published a book too. "No Nonsense Dog Training".

But yeah basically dobermans I guess "cannot hang" in IGP and you'll likely never see them on a podium. The euro dobermans die too young and are still nervous wrecks, the American dobermans pee themselves when adversity happens, etc.

I know there are exceptions to the rule but that is the truth it seems, sadly enough. Our breed doesn't have the means to fulfill their original purpose, so other breeds are taking their jobs and dobermans are going extinct. For a number of reasons, not just their lack of workability. I wish it wasn't true but it does seem that way.

Haz trained 1 doberman that I have seen and I don't think even Haz was happy with it, but he did sell it as a protection dog eventually. His shepherds on the other hand were sold almost as fast as they were listed.

Thanks again @StateOfMine
Found Haz' youtube channel and will browse content:

Shield K9 Dog Training

www.shieldk9.ca Haz Othman is a professional dog trainer and author of the book No Nonsense Dog Training.

m.youtube.com

Very interested in your impressions and takewaways of his evaluation/assessment of Flint, after your "mid July meeting"...

 

[StateOfMine]

I'll keep everyone updated with how it goes. Whatever the result, I'm nervous. If he does well I feel I should try to do something with him that won't let his ability go to waste, which will be so expensive. But if he gets dismissed I will be so disappointed lol

 

[BGpa]

I'll keep everyone updated with how it goes. Whatever the result, I'm nervous. If he does well I feel I should try to do something with him that won't let his ability go to waste, which will be so expensive. But if he gets dismissed I will be so disappointed lol

I think information is always good. I had Bonnie assessed at 10 months for PPD, maybe just the lowest level- turn big scary bark in and off on command. They said how to do it, no joy so far, and "we'd have to activate her" to get it...

I thought a bit and put that off. She has good alert bark and enough defensive instinct for more, naturally....so we've put it off indefinitely. "Cant have PPD for a Service Dog", for example...

Bonnie's sensitivity/temperament is better suited for SD, so we've been working towards that.

 

[StateOfMine]

I totally neglected this thread. Well we went to the assessment and the guy said Flint has potential but I have to encourage him to pull against the leash... which I have trained him for months to not do lol So I am trying to build his confidence to pulling against a harness, back-tie him, etc. Its slow going, but its going. His drive is... okay. I'd like it to be better. He could probably cut it as a PPD but IGP? I don't know. He definitely seems more interested in the environment in new places than the ball. He'll chase the ball, but then he runs over the top of it to go sniff something. I don't know if this is something that can be fixed or if this is just genetics and thats that.

The guy did like his persistence and his possessiveness for something he worked hard for though. Its true, he will not let go in tug of war for any reason and my husband tries to mess with him. He covers his eyes, puts a finger in his nose, messes with his ears, etc. He even has me grab at the backs of his legs, which Flint hates, and Flint will not let go lol

 

[Ravenbird]

He could probably cut it as a PPD but IGP? I don't know.

PPD for alert barking yes, Dobes are all great at that. Actual defense in a civil situation takes way more nerve than IGP performance. IGP is basically a choreographed routine that includes fairly exact steps taken for each exercise. It's obedience in extra-large tug play. There is gunshot in the obedience routine during heeling and the long down.

Back-tie with a harness and teasing with a tug is a fun game for you & him both (and exhausting fun!). It's good to let him tolerate pressure while he's possessing the tug/sleeve, but a solid OUT is a must. That's where obedience takes over. REWARD with the tug for letting go of the tug. This actually becomes exciting to the dog because of the anticipation of "get it". "Out" becomes a word that doesn't mean the end of the game but the beginning of a new game.