I would have never thought that is a Mal.
Basically the same dog except a Dutch Shepherd has to be brindle color. Some breeders will have a mixed litter and the brindles are registered Dutch and the tans are registered Mal.
One of the LEO's in town has a Mal and he won America's Top Dog 4 or 5 years ago but that same dog chewed all of the siding off his garage one year from his fence. LOL
The president/trainer at my IGP club has said this about Dutch Shepherds as well. Seems like redirecting is pretty common with them.
He's right! Fortunately Reckless has to really feel like she's being treated unfairly (held back when another dog gets to chase the lure) before she gets that mad. Since her daily life is basically hanging out, hiking and doing nose work there are very few conflicts so it's basically non-existent now.
Trying to create the best of both worlds.
Fixing to isolate to maintain a more true/pure bloodline?
But the KNPV lines produces the best working lines out there?
I understand this but then I don’t….
I’m not nearly as knowledgeable as Ravenbird on this, but I do know “bull herders” seem to be increasing in popularity, especially in certain bitesports. From my understanding it can technically be any herding breed mixed with any bull breed, but it seems a Mal x Pitbull cross is more common.
Fun post @Ddski5Our neighbor next door is a state trooper canine unit. He has 2 Mals. The retired one is quiet and lives in his house. The active duty Mal is a lot louder and more difficult. Both passed training, which is rigorous, but each very different and always have been. Same breed, same training, good work from both, but wide personality differences. While select and restrained breeding is clearly important, it remains the ultimate gamble and might best include the disclaimer “Caution. Results may vary.”
All those quotes are from what I quoted ((in italics in my post)) from a Working Dog Forum post, so just making sure you know I didn't say those things! That said, I just knew that Mals and Dutchies were related enough that they could be registered differently out of the same litter if they were brindle or fawn and dove a little deeper to find you that explanation. SO, I'm totally with you on surprise at those other breeds listed, but I'm thinking they could be breeding to Mal or Dutch that were MIXED with those breeds several generations back and were already looking like Mals again. But I don't know. The purist snub their nose at KNVP, knowing they are a mix mash, but the hard core working people like them because they were bred to work, not caring what they look like. That's all from just reading snippets here and there, I'm not very knowledgeable on the facts and all the different registries.
Again, I don't know the rules about what it takes to register the mixes as a Mal or Dutch, but I imagine they would use Pitbull in a breeding to get the bite more solid, then breed back to Mals/Dutch to get the standard look back. I asked @Doberman Gang one time why he didn't care for Dutch Shepherds and he said they were "chewy" on the sleeve. You want one deep bite and not let go - what a Pitbull is known for. So I could see them trying to improve a line that was otherwise good, but chewy on the sleeve. I cannot imagine what a Dane would be used for. I've never seen a Dutch or Mal that didn't look like one, but we don't see as many KNVP dogs here, certainly not in the BYBs, and pets.
That's true too - I don't know if that's just here in America or if it's in Europe too. I don't think it's a registered breed anywhere, but could be wrong about that. But yeah, that's the mix for bitesport if it can be balanced just right. Not my cuppa, but oh well.
THIS! With every breed out there, but especially it seems working breeds. And as @Aaron56 said, even littermates can vary wildly in their temperaments and talents.
That is so true and why it's so important for the breeder to choose the right pup for you when they're old enough to evaluate. They have lived with the pups from birth to approximately 10 weeks and knows each pup, where it would be impossible for us to go visit for one day and say "this is the one I want" or "this one picked me".
Before I decided on Jazzie I checked the main health problems of both Dobermans and Ridgebacks and they were different problems so no doubling up. Also Ridgebacks are relatively robust! Jazz had no genetic health issues in nearly 8 years and I feel she would have made 10+ if she hadn't injured her neck so I wouldn't hesitate to own the same cross bred again!
The out crosses, like purebred breeding should be done with purpose. As discussed about the Mal/Dutch crosses, I'm assuming pit bull was added to improve the bite. So a purposeful breeding. With Dobermans the show breeders and the working dog breeders have such incredible differences of what they are breeding for in temperament I'm assuming the only "better" that would have common ground would be health and longevity. A working line breeder might want to cross to another type of working dog so they also improve temperament for bite sports and a show line breeder might want to cross to another type of dog with similar structure so they don't get too far away from the standard build of a Doberman. It's extremely complicated and there is a whole thread about this from a few years ago.
Yes
Because the purists think it's sacrilege. The DPCA that we have today would never approve, therefore even after several generations of breeding back to purebreds and looking just like a Doberman, they would not be able to be registered as such. So now you'd have to start a new registry for a "new breed that looks just like a Doberman but has tainted blood". LOL
No, not at all. The show breeders who look at their litter of puppies and "know" it will never be CH quality in show, sell to pet or sport homes. Perfectly good dogs, just not perfect enough for the show ring. And standard enough that you can tell it's a Doberman from 100 feet away.
Hands down Longevity.
Why so many show people snub the Working line Dobermans: Too this, not enough that, blah blah blah. Because the working dog people don't care if it has a perfect angle here or a perfect head or tail set or slope to the back. They just want to breed what can do the job.
This is true, but the point is that many genetic things are difficult to overcome, no matter how much talent the owner/trainer has. You absolutely will never make a confident courageous protection dog from a weak nerved dog. You can improve them greatly, yes. But even dogs that love the game can wilt when pressured by the decoy. It's nature and nurture BOTH and if one or the other is missing you can only do so much.
Sorry, gotta disagree. There are some wonderful tests for litters to help predict temperament and it's amazing how well they work. Nothing is 100% ever, but as you yourself said, even littermates can be vastly different. A good breeder is there watching, taking notes (that's the whole purpose in colored collars from day one!) There will be more bossy, more submissive, more attentive to change or noise, more reactive to surprise or more curious and independent. All these notes are taken by the breeder daily. The test is done by strangers, in a room the puppy has never been in and without littermates or mother around.
