Obedience Chat

[Rits]

Ripley connecting with me on her final Q for her BN. This is the end of the heeling portion and I was waiting for "exercise finished" from the judge but wanted to let Ripley know how proud I was of her with no words since I already used up my one free "good girl" during the transition of speed change.


and good boy Revel earned his Trick Novice and Trick Intermediate title today! Some of his favorite tricks are "bang bang" / play dead, "catch" a treat, "deal" / shake, and "waiter!" / ring a bell.

 

[obbanner]

Ripley connecting with me on her final Q for her BN. This is the end of the heeling portion and I was waiting for "exercise finished" from the judge but wanted to let Ripley know how proud I was of her with no words since I already used up my one free "good girl" during the transition of speed change.

and good boy Revel earned his Trick Novice and Trick Intermediate title today! Some of his favorite tricks are "bang bang" / play dead, "catch" a treat, "deal" / shake, and "waiter!" / ring a bell.

Congratulations! Looking good!

 

[obbanner]

I like to practice Rally basic maneuvers when I have a chance, but I don't have the time to set up the signs or don't have them with me.

After I'm done, I remember something I want to practice and forgot. I made a cheat sheet and laminated it so it's always in my car. I also have it on my phone which is impossible to see in bright sunshine. I believe I covered all the basic things to do Rally other than jumps.

The numbers on the bottom are for the three options of the cloverleaf, Rally Sign 314. I have that chalked on my driveway (see picture of AJ) so I can quickly set up and change cones.

You're welcome to copy if you think it will be useful to you.



I posted this to show how I chalk the Sign 314 options on my driveway. But I took the picture because AJ was being funny. We were practicing the SEND command on the other side of the cone. We just changed sides and when I sent AJ, he went to where he was previously sitting and sat down.

 

[Ravenbird]

Probably for rally or obedience - but for me an obedience question: How much warm up for just before entering the ring? I'm thinking I'd do bits and pieces like what's on your list. If far away from the ring, is it ok to use a ball on string for engagement, then hand it to someone else before entering ring? What my problem usually is with Asha is that she is overly watchful of her surroundings, especially a new place and loses focus on me quickly. If there's a ball involved it gets her into play/work mode - a happier state of mind than her suspicion of surroundings. We've been to lots of events, but her nose work and even the BH don't have the chaos of dog show surroundings.

 

[Rits]

How much warm up for just before entering the ring? I'm thinking I'd do bits and pieces like what's on your list. If far away from the ring, is it ok to use a ball on string for engagement, then hand it to someone else before entering ring? What my problem usually is with Asha is that she is overly watchful of her surroundings, especially a new place and loses focus on me quickly. If there's a ball involved it gets her into play/work mode - a happier state of mind than her suspicion of surroundings. We've been to lots of events, but her nose work and even the BH don't have the chaos of dog show surroundings.

The answer is going to be different for everyone and their dog. Ripley works best if shes brought out no earlier than 5-10 min before go time with engagement work, right before going in. Some other dogs need to sit ring side for 30 min and absorb the ring before going in. Once I bring her out, she is on and ready to work. If I bring her out too early she grows bored (and vocal) and then when we go to go into the ring, she is too excited by the change in environment but not tuning that excitement into me. So usually this means I bring her ringside 1.5-2 dogs before me.

Yes, you can get her engaged in play before going in and hand the toy to someone. Just make sure she doesn't want to break during party moments like Ripley tried on me

I think my style of training at home caught up with us in the ring and she didn't realize she couldn't run to her prize when we celebrated. At home, I 'd have a ball on the ground we'd work around and the moment she did good I'd release her to it, she'd run over and wait, and I would walk to it and play. So, note to self...work on the difference between YES (release) and celebrate but keep working. I did have a difference between a yes and a good (marker but keep working, reward will come later) but I guess partying with her (to attempt to keep morale up in the ring with no food/toy reward) made it confusing for her and she sees/saw that equivalent to "YES".

 

[obbanner]

Probably for rally or obedience - but for me an obedience question: How much warm up for just before entering the ring? I'm thinking I'd do bits and pieces like what's on your list. If far away from the ring, is it ok to use a ball on string for engagement, then hand it to someone else before entering ring?

Warming up just before going in the ring isn't a topic much discussed. We had one class where we did warmups and we spent more time dealing with distractions getting to the ring gate, mostly people around the ring table, than we did actually warming up. One has to be prepared for delays entering the ring. When I started, I'd get my dog primed and raring to go, then the judge would futz around with paperwork, talk with the ring stewards, take a drink, and I would watch my dog deflate like last week's balloon. I had to learn general warmup while waiting for my ring call and learn things to keep him interested while standing at the gate entrance.

I drop things on the ground at the gate entrance such as toys and bait bags. A table steward once told me I could leave my bait bag on the table and when the judge came over, told me to get that bag off _his_ table.

I mentioned above I did a lousy job warming up AJ. I did a sloppy job that confused him. I knew I was in trouble when his tail was flat instead of up, and he didn't get into the spirit of the ring until we were halfway through. AJ requires fast heeling in a playful mode to warm up because it gets his juices flowing. That's what I didn't do. The venue had a moderate crowd where I wasn't able to take ten steps without running into someone. Instead, I did a combination of fronts, sidesteps, call around, etc. He was in a strange place and I was doing strange things, so that set him back a bit.

At the gate, I assume I'm going to have to keep my dog 'up' for two minutes while waiting. I try to do it without a lot of movement. There's things on the list I do. I often bring my bait pouch. I hold it in my hand so I remember to drop it on the ground and not wear it into the ring. If I think we're down to the last thirty seconds before going in the ring, I do attention exercises where the bait gets their blood flowing. When the judge invites me into the ring, I try to remember not to schlep the dog into the ring, but use that as warmup where I can get their heads in the game.

Here I'm waiting for the team ahead of me to finish. I started the last minute ringside warm up when the judge started walking to the table. AJ is still up from our warming up away from the ring.

 

[Ravenbird]

Thanks, I was hoping to hear from both of you @Rits and @obbanner! Totally agree, every dog will be different. I feel like 4 years old is pretty old to be introduced to the show atmosphere, so much different than sports.

I mean Asha does so much perfectly at home or in familiar parks all over town with distractions, but any time for any reason I go to a place she's never been, she is not the same. If I could train in a trial environment 3 times, we'd be fine, but I have no choice but to arrive at a place she's never been with new sights and sounds and no rehearsal time. 80% of the time in instances I lose her focus. Goes from me to surroundings. She stays with me, but - and I think you both know what I'm referring to - she zones out on me and zeros in on this, that and the other. Not in ugly protection mode, just taking in her surroundings because that, to her, is still sadly more important than me So I was thinking amp her up with ball and fun, let her watch me hand the ball to a friend just before going in the ring. Her best attention to me is when she knows a big prize is waiting.

But like you both say, timing is critical. How do you know when your turn is up? You are ringside and the dog you're after is in the ring... are you watching or are you working/warming up your dog. Do you see the dog exit and wait at the gait for a nod from the judge? 30 seconds or 5 minutes? Or, like you both mentioned - you don't know! I've never done this before and looking to get my feet wet. I don't need to Q, I just want to know as much as possible before diving in and get some confidence that we can do it! Thanks again.

 

[Rits]

How do you know when your turn is up? You are ringside and the dog you're after is in the ring... are you watching or are you working/warming up your dog.

Asha sounds like Ripley in that she would probably do best being brought out before she has a chance to look at her surroundings and lose focus. I sit by myself ringside and watch the other competitors. You'll get an idea how long each run takes, and get a feel for the judge's style this way too. I would say most runs are in the 3 min range but higher levels can take longer. I do the same as Art in pre-entrance ritual. The bait bag goes on the table and last 30 seconds bait is out to get her amped so she knows its waiting for her once we're done.

Maybe practice taking her somewhere completely new and act like the car is her in her crate at a show. Take her out, immediately start warming her up/engaging her... 1-2 min. This needs to look the same as it would in trial. Don't do one thing at home and something different in trial (easier than it sounds, I know). Its a pre-cue that work is about to begin. At ringside for my warmup I always have Ripley touch my left hand, then right hand, then fall into a by-heel. Do not over work her. Keep it short. Have a goal in mind before arriving, she performs well, have fun playing with her and leave.

Practice building duration of you standing there yet not looking at her, with her at attention, reward. This happens often. The judge gets done with the dog before you then walks to the table to write in their books and the ring stewards start chatting with the judge a bit much. To keep Ripley's focus while waiting I do hand targets. She sits beside me and I will put my hand above her for her to touch periodically so I know she is still engaged with me. I will reward her at random intervals and I reward from my arm pit. Stick a piece of bait in your left arm pit and open your arm up to drop it straight down to them. This trick really helped keep Rip's attention UP. I also taught her to rest her chin deep into my hand and I'll rub or stroke her muzzle to offer support. This chin rest is usually what I'll do while waiting for the judge, waiting for the steward or whatever... The nose touch is pre-cue that we are about to start the next exercise.

Have two cones that are your "gate". Practice JUST entering this gate with focus for one to two steps. Reward. Build your duration of entering before reward. Now add entering plus setting up (having to heel over to x spot and sit and wait for judge) before rewarding. Again, sometimes judge takes a while from telling you to enter the ring to them standing next to you telling you the intro, "good luck" and "are you ready?"

Practice whatever routine you want to do with "are you ready?" The moment I walk into the ring, I personally never look away from my dog. Judge asks me if I'm ready - I don't look up to the judge. Im smiling down at my dog and say "ready". I trained Ripley at home that "ready" equals head snap up and eye contact. Reward. So whenever the judge says "are you ready" if for some reason Ripley looks away, she hears that and snaps up to look at me. The word ready is used in rally and obedience. Not sure about agility but its probably pretty universal and its super handy to have your dog hear it and know "time to work!"

Do you see the dog exit and wait at the gait for a nod from the judge? 30 seconds or 5 minutes?

Yes, once the other dog exits (I would let them exit before approaching) the judge will call out your number not long after and "come on in. Always wait for the judge. Some competitors choose to sit and wait at the ring entrance... I like to do a fluid motion and start back about 5-10 ft and heel into the ring to continue heeling right to where the first exercise begins. The ring entrance is part of our routine. Plus, the dog leaving is supposed to be under control but at lower levels this is not always the case... don't let it mess up your dog. I'm pretty sure Asha is like Ripley that, if a dog is overly excited leaving and gets in her space, she loses focus.

 

[obbanner]

I like to do a fluid motion and start back about 5-10 ft and heel into the ring to continue heeling right to where the first exercise begins. The ring entrance is part of our routine. Plus, the dog leaving is supposed to be under control but at lower levels this is not always the case... don't let it mess up your dog.

This is an example of doing what works best for you. I like to go into the ring a few feet and sit my dog. Then take off the lead and heel to where the first exercise begins. This latter heeling is my last chance to warm him up. I try to do a counter clockwise turn into the dog when positioning for the start of an exercise because that takes effort on his part and makes him realize this is now for real. (I'll walk past the start so I can reverse direction and do the turn.) Something I usually forget to do, but if he still needs to be woken up, a sharp HEEL or SIT at this point often is the final touch he needs.

Thanks, I was hoping to hear from both of you @Rits and @obbanner!

Please feel free to tag me if you want my opinion! I'm more than glad to help if I can. I forgot to mention the table stewards can usually give you an idea on how long it will be before you go in. People at trials are usually very helpful to new handlers, too. If you have a chance, watch what the experienced handlers do before and when they go into the ring.

I like to get to a new venue in time so we can walk around. AJ will be turning his head and looking at everything as well as getting used to the noise. After a while he'll settle down. Then I put him back into the car so he can sleep on what he just saw. When it's time to work, it won't be new to him.

 

[Ravenbird]

Ok, I've got some ideas now. thank you both!

It's one of those things that I won't really know what works best for my dog until we do it a few times. I think it will be a fine line between not enough and too much pre-trial warm up. So nice that you both shared methods of what works for you. And @Rits I will try a new place and the gate entry routine. Maybe come out of the car, go pee in one area, then to the gate area for tiny warm up then through the gate. @obbanner I love the idea of going wide and turning a circle into the start spot! Since novice is almost always first I may not be able to watch many or any before me. I've heard that the judges for novice are usually kind, do a walk through of the pattern and explain things.

 

[obbanner]

Ok, I've got some ideas now. thank you both!

It's one of those things that I won't really know what works best for my dog until we do it a few times. I think it will be a fine line between not enough and too much pre-trial warm up. So nice that you both shared methods of what works for you. And @Rits I will try a new place and the gate entry routine. Maybe come out of the car, go pee in one area, then to the gate area for tiny warm up then through the gate. @obbanner I love the idea of going wide and turning a circle into the start spot! Since novice is almost always first I may not be able to watch many or any before me. I've heard that the judges for novice are usually kind, do a walk through of the pattern and explain things.

The dog has to work a bit harder when you're turning into him. I hope it works for you. I forgot to mention that AJ is an intact male and he often has his own agenda, so I have to work a bit harder to get his head straight.

Our trials are usually Utility A, Utility B, Open B, Open A, then the other classes. The ring starts set up for Utility and there's a few Utility A people. Then we clear out all the B people going for UDX legs and OTCH points. That clears out the parking lot and the Novice people start arriving. The Novice and Open A people have an easier time without the crowd.

I assume you're Novice A? Judges are very forgiving of the NA people. Good luck!

 

[Ravenbird]

Yes, Novice A. A friend of mine got 2 of 3 legs last August and said the Novice A was first thing in the morning, so she didn't get to see any trials except a couple of dogs that went before she did on her first day. That's why I was thinking I wouldn't get to see anyone go or watch the judges routine. I guess they will send a schedule after entries close?

The dog has to work a bit harder when you're turning into him. I hope it works for you

Yes, way better than just walking to the start point and stopping. Like you said, making them think and pay attention is most beneficial in this case.

AJ is an intact male and he often has his own agenda, so I have to work a bit harder to get his head straight.

Asha has been on her own agenda for 4 years now, I'm use to that.

The moment I walk into the ring, I personally never look away from my dog. Judge asks me if I'm ready - I don't look up to the judge. Im smiling down at my dog and say "ready". I trained Ripley at home that "ready" equals head snap up and eye contact.

I see this a lot - handler looking at dog for the whole routine. They don't ding you for that? I'll start using the ready word for an indicator!

Practice building duration of you standing there yet not looking at her, with her at attention, reward.

I've done this lots, when I was training for the BH! She's pretty good but I'll tack it on for more training.

dog leaving is supposed to be under control but at lower levels this is not always the case... don't let it mess up your dog. I'm pretty sure Asha is like Ripley that, if a dog is overly excited leaving and gets in her space, she loses focus.

She won't care if the dog is jumping at the handler and engaged. But if the dog is amped up and looks at her, she would take it wrong, so I'll stay well back when the dog is exiting. And I remember your story about a dog being near the gate that got Ripley pissed off and made a mental note about it way back then. Also I've taken to just rubbing Ashas chest softly saying good girl between exercises I don't release her until well out of the practice area any more because when she gets an excited "All Done/Yes!" she can get over the top wild real quick. So I've quit doing that until really done.


It'll still be awhile and I might come up with more questions, but this is great information to use & practice some good habits!

 

[obbanner]

@Ravenbird "I see this a lot - handler looking at dog for the whole routine. They don't ding you for that?"

You don't get dinged so long as the dog is in proper heeling position.

Looking at the dog can cause problems. Dogs find a place on you to fixate when they heel. If they're looking up at you, it's most likely the shoulder.

If you're looking at the dog, your shoulder will twist back and they'll adjust their position accordingly. It's especially noticeable on Figure 8s. I try to look straight ahead. When training, I use the dog's shadow as much as possible to see their position instead of looking at him.

The second problem is when everything is going fine and I'm looking at my dog, he starts thinking he's doing something wrong. I think of it as don't micromanage my dog - just stare straight ahead. You can give a second command while heeling if Asha gets away from you. You'll get a substantial deduction, but you'll save the Q.

I learned that dogs watch the handler with my first dog. I couldn't get Inky to sit straight in heel position. She always angled facing off to the side. I worked many hours trying to straighten her out. It turned out the problem was me. I realized she took her cue from my foot, and my foot was angled. When I stood with my feet straight, she sat straight. That was my first step to learning most dog problems are really handler problems.

 

[Rits]

Yep. Its all personal preference for the handler and the dog. Looking at my dog works for me but for others it may not. Ripley craves the eye contact and would disengage if she wasn't able to look at my face to see my emotions. You can see it in her body language. Shes very engaged and eager working with me. I don't necessarily or always look straight down at her, its more of a head tilt down/out of the corner of my eye just enough to see her. And nothing that I've read in the rules says you can't smile at your dog! So I smile at her to let her know shes doing well, especially on tricky bits.

She won't care if the dog is jumping at the handler and engaged. But if the dog is amped up and looks at her, she would take it wrong, so I'll stay well back when the dog is exiting. And I remember your story about a dog being near the gate that got Ripley pissed off and made a mental note about it way back then.

Yea this is why I mentioned it. Around the novice ring it seems much more likely a dog will attempt to get in your dogs face or stare. In Ripley's case, it was understandable she got upset... she was focused on me and the dog snapped at her right before going in.

Since novice is almost always first I may not be able to watch many or any before me. I've heard that the judges for novice are usually kind, do a walk through of the pattern and explain things.

Not always. My last trial ran backwards. And B went first for both trials so you have time to watch others run. There will be a walkthrough/ask judge any questions, usually before B starts. Give yourself an hour or more to show up before your not before time (this should be posted a few days following closing). Let Asha sniff, potty, and settle in then put her away and check in or vice versa. So when is your trial?! I'm guessing you are gonna go for it now!? If so, I'm so excited for you!!

 

[Ravenbird]

@Rits - Looking at options - winter is trial season here in the Southwest. LOL, nothing that won't cost a $130+ per night x 3 or 4.... Zero options to get up early, go to trial and get home late. You guys will hear about it for sure.

You don't get dinged so long as the dog is in proper heeling position.

Good to know, thanks for verifying! In IGP it's pretty military type heeling so I learned to only look ahead. Definite dings for looking at the dog constantly. I think with our ingrained habits, I won't change things. Also grateful that AKC allows both arms down now, because again, our first obedience it was the only way allowed. Not gonna change it now. Her biggest heeling faults are crowding/forging or being too far in front.

nothing that I've read in the rules says you can't smile at your dog! So I smile at her to let her know shes doing well, especially on tricky bits.

I've done this in practice a LOT! Look, followed with smile, followed with food or ball. Try to let her know that smiling means same as "good girl". In IGP you are allowed quiet praise between exercises so I use that smile to add to the praise time. It's quiet and doesn't get her overly excited.

 

[obbanner]

Good to know, thanks for verifying! In IGP it's pretty military type heeling

My first dog was trained very precisely. She was originally trained for personal protection, then we went on to AKC Obedience. I was very proud of her precision. On her third leg for her CD, the judge told me he deducted points because she was militaristic. Go figger!

 

[Rits]

nothing that won't cost a $130+ per night x 3 or 4.... Zero options to get up early, go to trial and get home late. You guys will hear about it for sure.

Its definitely a love for your dog and the breed, thats for sure... thats just for one trial! People that think breeding brings in big $$$$ for those proving their dogs and health testing on top of the normal breeding expenses makes me want to cry/laugh.

 

[Ravenbird]

My first dog was trained very precisely. She was originally trained for personal protection, then we went on to AKC Obedience. I was very proud of her precision. On her third leg for her CD, the judge told me he deducted points because she was militaristic. Go figger!

My dog is not militaristic at all, heeling is the the bane of our existence. I, on the other hand did my best to look the part for the heeling routine in our BH. I did see in the AKC rules that they want "natural" as opposed to military, so I've worked on that. After doing 50 paces before an about turn in BH, the AKC ring seems tiny and choppy with just a few strides between changes of pace.

Its definitely a love for your dog and the breed, thats for sure... thats just for one trial! People that think breeding brings in big $$$$ for those proving their dogs and health testing on top of the normal breeding expenses makes me want to cry/laugh.

Right? But chasing titles keeps me working on goals, and doing that promises my dog one-on-one quality time together, works her brain and keeps her happy. Isn't that what it's all about?

 

[Rits]

Right? But chasing titles keeps me working on goals, and doing that promises my dog one-on-one quality time together, works her brain and keeps her happy. Isn't that what it's all about?

Theres nothing better, imo! I can tell she truly enjoys the time we spend together. Even now that she's busy growing babies she's pushing me while I'm training Stavros so she can have HER turn. She craves it!

 

[Ravenbird]

She craves it!

I think they all do! And then they make us crave it, then we're all in this mess of us chasing 50 cent ribbons and paying $500 for them.