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Nosy trainer!!!...I lost my "cool!"...I struggle w/ "long story short!"

bomary

bomary

Hot Topics Subscriber
I'm new here, and you guys might want to beat me up just like she did, but this was SOOO frustrating and annoying...the first two times. This time (the 3rd) it flat out pissed me off, and I exploded.
Jax attended a class at Petsmart for six weeks (mostly just to socialize and practice on basics...I'm glad that was the extent of my expectations because he learned nothing else.) There is a highly respected local trainer who I am going to work extensively with when he is six months old. (He is five mos. now).
I actually went to meet with that private trainer twice to work solely on leash pulling. We mutually decided that, for walks only right now, I will use a prong collar, and (because I'm likely the most overprotective "Mom" she's ever met) we spent an hour and 1/2 together each time to be sure I was doing it right...we're going back Saturday and Sunday. He is growing so quickly and no matter how much I try to use the "stand like a statue," "turn and go the other way," "stop and make him sit," or anything else, he is just determined. My Mom goes to the house to play, walk, and get him a snack/water in the middle of the day. The spend about 2 hours alone together. She is 75 and tiny. He loves her (and she him), but if he sees a particularly interesting bird, hears a train, etc., he can most definitely pull her over and harm him while they are walking. I am totally open to any suggestions on this if you disagree with the collar, but I've asked about that on another thread. My purpose here I suppose is to vent! I have seen the trainer from Petsmart twice since we decided to use the prong for walks (I am there about three times/week because I love showing my baby off and giving him a chance to practice things away from home). Both times, she has given me her "two cents" on the collar. I've "explained myself" (which I should not have to do) both times. (I've actually ordered two custom collars from Lola Limited that hide the prongs because of this woman!)
I went in there yesterday and dreaded walking in. (I saw her dog first thing, so I knew she was there and would approach me.) I was buying a smaller collar as I was advised to do by the private trainer for a better fit behind the ears (and a toy because he's spoiled). I passed by her and four other people (two customers, two workers) and said hello. The two workers greeted Jax by name and loved on him. As I walked off, the male customer commented on how pretty Jax is : ), and the trainer said "Dobermans are beautiful and they are great dogs, but she...." I just pretended not to hear and went on (biting my tongue, but knowing it would be futile to "engage.") I got to the checkout where the whole group was still assembled. I was in a hurry because it was getting close to my baby's dinner time, and I wanted to get home to try the posting technique that I read about here. From ten feet away, with the "group," other customers, and the cashier listening, she said, "So why did you go to that collar?" Once again, (feeling embarrassed because they are all paying attention to me now) I "defended myself" to her. This time she was relentless (maybe because there was an audience...I don't know/care, but shouldn't an employee just drop it and "allow me" to spend money at the store without recrimination)? About 3 minutes in, she said, "Well, you're gonna hurt your dog." WOW. I won't even type the things that I said, but suffice it to say that when I was done, I hated to come to the realization that I was wearing an outfit bearing the logo of the school where I teach!! (Whoops!) I ended up placing the merchandise on the counter and saying (not cleanly or calmly) that I would just spend forty more minutes of my evening going to Petco to buy the exact same things. When I got to the car and had Jax loaded up, I thought to myself, "Why am I inconveniencing myself with a trip to another store because of a person's opinion (which I didn't ask for)?" I went back in to begrudgingly grab those things and pay. She was assisting the cashier with putting my things back on the shelves. She didn't realize that I was behind her and she was still berating me to her coworker. I said, "Hello again, could I grab that collar from you?" She freaking started in again. I should probably be embarrassed by my behavior, but I'm not. I cussed. I raised my voice, etc. I'm still mad typing this!
I really do/did respect her as a trainer. (She didn't teach my guy anything he didn't already know, but that's not her fault...he's a genius!) Her dogs are amazingly well behaved. She clearly has the ability to train dogs. However, she also clearly doesn't realize that every dog can't be trained exactly the same. More importantly, she doesn't realize that there is very often a reason that unsolicited advice is unsolicited. I did not ask for her opinion. Jax is my world. To have someone publicly humiliate me and imply that I would do something to hurt that sweet baby was infuriating, insulting, and ridiculous. OMG. I am sorry! I will stop. I could write a novel about this! Again, if you have a suggestion or even if it makes you mad that I bought a prong, I get that. I just think that her behavior was extraordinarily wrong.
 
A lot of us including myself have used and use prongs. I buy mine from herm sprenger they are amazing nice rounded tips. A prong collar is a tool and a great training aid that if used and fitted properly will not harm the harm the dog. She sounds like a its my way the high way. I have trained with and without prong, just depends on the dog. I'm guessing she's a strictly positive reinforcement trainer and that's how she was taught and that's the only thing she knows. So she's obviously not trained in the prong or educated on how they work, I would just blow her off. I explain a prong as powered steering. Actually stopped someone last weekend who was having trouble at petco fitting this massive (cheap) prong on their pit mix and told them where to buy and even said if they wanted I can give them my number and help them fit it and show them how to properly use it and they were very greatful. No one at the store was helping this poor couple with this just walked on by when they were obviously struggling. My advice just give her the finger and go about your day. :)
 
AresMyDobie said:
A lot of us including myself have used and use prongs. I buy mine from herm sprenger they are amazing nice rounded tips. A prong collar is a tool and a great training aid that if used and fitted properly will not harm the harm the dog. She sounds like a its my way the high way. I have trained with and without prong, just depends on the dog. I'm guessing she's a strictly positive reinforcement trainer and that's how she was taught and that's the only thing she knows. So she's obviously not trained in the prong or educated on how they work, I would just blow her off. I explain a prong as powered steering. Actually stopped someone last weekend who was having trouble at petco fitting this massive (cheap) prong on their pit mix and told them where to buy and even said if they wanted I can give them my number and help them fit it and show them how to properly use it and they were very greatful. No one at the store was helping this poor couple with this just walked on by when they were obviously struggling. My advice just give her the finger and go about your day. :)
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Ha...I think flipping the bird was the only thing I didn't include in the ordeal!! I have read a lot about the Herm Sprenger collars, and I will order one.
I thought that she was positive only until she violently yanked a terrier in class around on a flat buckle collar (I would have gone through the roof if she did that to Jax.) She then told his owners to just "smack him" if he continued to act poorly on the leash. I'm not sure what her training philosophy is. She is a bit "all over the place."

I will just move on like you said!! Thanks so much for reading ALL of my post! I told my friends, family, and my students about the situation, but I needed to vent here because I can tell that you guys "get it!"

That was sweet of you to help the person in Petco. This stuff is intimidating at times, and it does stink that it's hard to find someone who is knowledgeable.
 
There are some who don't have a clue about prongs and think they're the most cruel collar out there. The truth is they're 100% better than a choke chain or letting them choke themselves on a flat collar. Chokes have been proven to cause neck damage in dogs because they are just connecting to them too much.
I won't start a prong until they're 6 months old but they're a wonderful training tool as long as the person on the other end of the lead learns how to use them correctly.
I say ignore that trainer and find a better one and don't let stupid comments like that get to you.
bomary said:
I thought that she was positive only until she violently yanked a terrier in class around on a flat buckle collar (I would have gone through the roof if she did that to Jax.) She then told his owners to just "smack him" if he continued to act poorly on the leash. I'm not sure what her training philosophy is. She is a bit "all over the place."
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Wow that's insane and won't do anything but confuse the poor dog and make things worse. :(

We have both Herm Sprenger collars and Lola Limited and I like to use the Lola collars when we go out and about to avoid some of those stupid comments.
 
bomary said:
Ha...I think flipping the bird was the only thing I didn't include in the ordeal!! I have read a lot about the Herm Sprenger collars, and I will order one.
I thought that she was positive only until she violently yanked a terrier in class around on a flat buckle collar (I would have gone through the roof if she did that to Jax.) She then told his owners to just "smack him" if he continued to act poorly on the leash. I'm not sure what her training philosophy is. She is a bit "all over the place."

I will just move on like you said!! Thanks so much for reading ALL of my post! I told my friends, family, and my students about the situation, but I needed to vent here because I can tell that you guys "get it!"

That was sweet of you to help the person in Petco. This stuff is intimidating at times, and it does stink that it's hard to find someone who is knowledgeable.
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She told the owner to smack her dog ? Wtf kind of correction is that ? Dogs dont understand that. It's far better to correct with a prong or a slip lead. Not drag a dog around by a flat collar. I laughed at one lady who was a petco "trainer" saying I should bring my Doberman to her and get in their training program. My boy was sitting calmly by my side with his prong on ( we're in schutzhund training.) and I said I think we're good I have a trainer. I have two prongs one a medium sized prong stainless steel no quick release and the other (I bought two and this one is my favorite.) is a small prong pinch stainless steel no quick release. I started him with the small and once they learn from that I transition to the medium that's just me and what my trainer told me cuz my boy wasn't very responsive to the medium and the small one packs more of a hey pay attention, but that being said every dog is different :)
I would certainly not condone this so called trainer if she's resorting to violence and hitting that's not how you train that's how you abuse.
I'm hoping that couple will text me so I can help them and show them how to properly fit and use because it was apparent no on there was going to help them and they would have been clueless, bought the wrong size and I just do not like those prongs, ultimately if I didn't speak up the dog and human would have suffered.
And I like @JanS didnt use a prong till he was six months old as well lol
 
That sound so wrong, what that woman and those people said and did to you!

You will not get anything negative from me regarding prong collars except for how SO many people just use them on their dogs as their standard collar. Those things are everywhere. I bet at the Farmers' Market over half the dogs have prong collars on. So people are not using them how they were intended to be used. Likely, they just have dogs that are not all that driven and the prong collar keeps their pulling to a tolerable level and so it has just become their everyday, all-purpose collar.

The maddening thing is that many of those dogs have lots of fur and you can barely tell it's a prong. With our Dobes, the collar stands out big time, and I do get looks from people.

Regarding the pulling. Yup. That sounds like the norm. No amount of slowing down or stopping will deter my current or past Dobes from pulling. I wish you lived close to me. I would gladly help you train your guy to heel. That said, I do not keep my Dobe on a heel for an entire walk. Not even close. I let him pull most of the time, and I admit I have trouble with the middle ground of simply Do Not Pull.

FYI, even when I have used prong collars as directed, they have not been enough to stop my Dobes from pulling. I suppose the only thing I could do better with a prong is make sure it fits so it stays up very very high on the neck.
 
I'd report her to corporate. You are there as a customer trying to purchase a collar. I would have asked her 'Why do you sell these collars if they hurt dogs? Maybe you should take it up with your manager. In fact let's both go talk to your manager about it".
 
Drogon said:
I'd report her to corporate. You are there as a customer trying to purchase a collar. I would have asked her 'Why do you sell these collars if they hurt dogs? Maybe you should take it up with your manager. In fact let's both go talk to your manager about it".
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Hahahaha bet that would shut her up!
 
This is a 'funny' coincidence because collars have been on my mind all day. I'm a leader and dog trainer in a 4H club for the past 8 years. Last night there was an incident where Dog1 got loose, got in the face of Dog2, and the adult parent handling Dog2 got bit by her own dog. Dog1 and the parent have been a headache for me ever since the 4H year started in late September because Dog1 parent just doesn't get the picture about controlling dogs. She buys collars too big and Dog1 slips out of them. Every new collar, I point out why it is too big, and the next dog training session, Dog1 comes back with a new collar that is still too big even when adjusted to the smallest size. (I also had problems with her about leashes.)

After the meeting, I gave my standard demonstration of a prong collar because she went to a pet store and the clerk told her how prong collars torture the dog. I put one of my dogs prong collars with a short tab on it looped over my forearm. I then yank down on the tab with the same amount of force I use on my dogs to demonstrate that the prong collar neither hurts nor injures my forearm, although I do admit I feel it. We then put the prong collar on Dog1 and the dog was under control for the few minutes we let her use it. Then she starts telling me she can't use the prong collar because her dog doesn't like it! Duh, he's no longer the boss!

Your private trainer sounds very sensible to me. The best quality obedience equipment isn't usually found in pet stores anyway, and I usually buy online. I agree that the Sprenger collars are among the best.

Please do whatever you can to make sure your mother doesn't get hurt. I'm also on the board of a home health care agency and know very well how a minor accident can radically alter the life of the elderly.
 
I am so appreciative that you guys didn't jump on me!! I really wanted to wait until my boy was 6 months to learn to use the prong, but it seemed like he had a major growth spurt overnight!...one day my Mom told me her shoulder was hurting because he got excited and tried to run when they got close to the house. I didn't realize he was pulling that hard...my Mom is tiny, and I would hate myself if either of them got hurt.
I bought the cheap prong at Petsmart and didn't even attempt to put it on him for three days until I could get with the trainer. She was able to get it on and off of him like a pro...probably because she is one : )), but it was scary to me! I got home and got brave enough to try all by myself...it kept slipping down on his little neck, so I would just take it off. I met with her again; she got me to practice putting it on and taking it off (and I took a link out so it would stay up). I'm still intimidated by the whole thing because I struggle getting it off of him and I worry that I'm going to hurt him. (Most people would probably say I'm overly cautious or treating him like a baby.....) The reason I was at Petsmart was to get the smaller pronged one to see if I would feel more comfortable before I bought a better quality one. I figured it would fit better and it does. It stays right up by his ears. However, I'm still not using it because I worry about pinching him getting it on/off! (He has never even flinched/moaned/cried when I do it, I just don't like doing it because it scares me.)
I definitely wish I had one of you guys close to help me out with it...and probably to ease my mind when it gets racing with worry about my guy. It is insane how precious he is to me. I loved my Dad's Dobermans, but Jax is "mine," and he definitely has my heart. (and my bank account!!, but who cares..)
Oh, also... I would NEVER leave a prong on my guy all the time. I've read everything I can get my hands on regarding training and especially anything specifically related to Dobermans. I'm still studying everything I can (suggestions welcome). I want this guy to love and be loved by many, and I hope to be a great "Mom" to him.
 
OMG!...I was taking my time writing that last message and didn't look up to see that y'all had responded. I just died laughing out loud. Another teacher came into my room to see what was going on! I'm going to have to re-read those and think of something witty to add.
 
bomary said:
I am so appreciative that you guys didn't jump on me!! I really wanted to wait until my boy was 6 months to learn to use the prong, but it seemed like he had a major growth spurt overnight!...one day my Mom told me her shoulder was hurting because he got excited and tried to run when they got close to the house. I didn't realize he was pulling that hard...my Mom is tiny, and I would hate myself if either of them got hurt.
I bought the cheap prong at Petsmart and didn't even attempt to put it on him for three days until I could get with the trainer. She was able to get it on and off of him like a pro...probably because she is one : )), but it was scary to me! I got home and got brave enough to try all by myself...it kept slipping down on his little neck, so I would just take it off. I met with her again; she got me to practice putting it on and taking it off (and I took a link out so it would stay up). I'm still intimidated by the whole thing because I struggle getting it off of him and I worry that I'm going to hurt him. (Most people would probably say I'm overly cautious or treating him like a baby.....) The reason I was at Petsmart was to get the smaller pronged one to see if I would feel more comfortable before I bought a better quality one. I figured it would fit better and it does. It stays right up by his ears. However, I'm still not using it because I worry about pinching him getting it on/off! (He has never even flinched/moaned/cried when I do it, I just don't like doing it because it scares me.)
I definitely wish I had one of you guys close to help me out with it...and probably to ease my mind when it gets racing with worry about my guy. It is insane how precious he is to me. I loved my Dad's Dobermans, but Jax is "mine," and he definitely has my heart. (and my bank account!!, but who cares..)
Oh, also... I would NEVER leave a prong on my guy all the time. I've read everything I can get my hands on regarding training and especially anything specifically related to Dobermans. I'm still studying everything I can (suggestions welcome). I want this guy to love and be loved by many, and I hope to be a great "Mom" to him.
Click to expand...
I would certainly order from herm sprenger they have good quality prongs and it shows when you go to take it off its really easy. I do not like the ones they sell at petco or petsmart they aren't good, very cheap and the ends of the prongs are flat and I don't like that at all. With the herm sprenger collars they have nice round edges and you can just tell the difference in the quality of the collar. I deterred that couple at petco from buying one of their prongs and told them where to order and I'm glad they listened. If you'd like I can get you the link. You'll certainly have no problems pinching him with these collars when you go to take it off or put it on. It's ok if the collar slides down the neck a little bit you don't want it to be to tight.
Here's a older pic of my guy and I'm sure there is a thread in here on how to properly fit one :) but as you can see I use the small prongs.
 

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I would absolutely report her to at the very least store management, if not corporate. You can always use the "contact us" link online. I'm appalled at her actions... I've always had excellent experiences at our petsmart, the employees are helpful and understanding and willing to explain pros and cons of anything without pushing their personal opinions on us. I'm sorry you dealt with that, but honestly handled it better than I Probabaly would have!!
 
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