Nosework Thread

[Ravenbird]

The second search was nothing for her! Dobies need a lead filled heavy duty wall as a block, otherwise they're going to bust through!

So true!

Here's at 8 months old with just food for hides, no environmental noises, tumbling tables ever bothered her. Knowing more now, I should have been reinforcing her finding the food hides with tons more praise & more food/treats. At this stage I thought the self reward was enough, and for her it was, but I'd still add more from ME if I was training a new pup. But yeah, here's a great example of busting through and having no cares about stuff crashing all around: Asha at 8 months:

 

[Rits]

Ripley was a very good girl at her first scentwork trial last weekend...3/4 Q's overall!

Our first runs were Buried and we were just introduced to that last week in class LOL. From what I hear, buried has a high fail rate so I'm super pleased with a Q for only a week of training and our first run!

She placed in a huge Novice class for all 3 Qs by getting a 2nd in Buried, a 1st in Containers and another 2nd in Containers!

 

[Ravenbird]

Ripley was a very good girl at her first scentwork trial last weekend...3/4 Q's overall!

Congrats on that!!! I'm sooo ready to go back to nosework after this next obedience run. More fun, less pressure!

 

[Ravenbird]

Here's a great example of pinpointing Source. The odor is taped underneath the bottom step of the step-stool. Asha explores the whole thing searching out the exact spot. Those of you just beginning, don't worry if you are not getting this kind of detail - it comes with experience. And one more reason why video is so fun to review! If you use the settings on Youtube to play in slow motion, the detailing of her using her nose is fascinating. Well, to me anyway. Also, the plastic jar in the left corner of the floor is the food distraction which she went to first, but completely ignored realizing it was food, not odor.

 

[Ravenbird]

Took 3 hides with me on a short hike, put Asha on a sit stay and placed them, then hiked my short loop as they "cooked" for 30 minutes. I was really happy with her enthusiasm and success in the great wide open! Two were ground level and then one was in a tree that she couldn't reach, and even had a problem getting her feet up on the branch to point at it. She actually sat & looked, then barked at it (a first!) telling me "for sure, it's right up there" she says eyeballing the spot.

Video is a bit wobbly when I go to her to reward the find, but I think this is a fun example for how you can incorporate nose work into a regular walk or hike.

 

[remy]

Awesome job!

 

[Rits]

She actually sat & looked, then barked at it (a first!)

Love it!!!

 

[Ravenbird]

3 days of Scent Work, 4 trials per day, first time all elements are in Excellent. 3 hides in each element, but the judges start making them more difficult, using hides that are closer together where odors converge, in the sun where the heat takes the odor up etc. In other words it begins to get more complicated than just finding the hides. Day one Asha was great - 4 trials, Q'd in exterior giving her the Excellent Exterior Title and moving to Masters in that element. She also Q'd in Containers & Buried, so Friday I felt extremely confident! Saturday & Sunday was 0 for 4 both days though. Most of her alerts were due to fringing (alerting too far from the hide) and judges get tougher (and probably should to a degree) on how far away is allowed. Also Excellent Interiors introduces an unknown for the first time: there are 3 total hides in two different rooms. Trick is, 1 hide is in one room and the other 2 hides are in the other room, but you aren't told which room has 1 or 2. So first room you go to, if you find one hide, you keep searching until you find a 2nd hide, or you call finish if you think there isn't another hide. If you call finish and there was a 2nd hide, instant NQ. If you are correct, then you go on to room #2. Asha never got to room #2 in the 3 days. First day, she alerted on fringed odor, about 3 feet from the hide. 2nd day she alerted in the middle of converging odor, at a point half way between two hides, and the 3rd day she found 1 hide and I asked her to "find another" which she went round & round, acting like nothing else was there so I called finish, very confidently, but was wrong. There was a 2nd hide that for whatever reason Asha did not indicate at all. Containers and Buried, she false alerted close to nearby hides, so more fringing. Mater exteriors, we've got work to do! 1 - 4 hides, unknown to you, Asha got NQ on Saturday for alerting about 12 - 18 inches away from source. Then on Sunday she alerted about 8 FEET from source, but the hide was on a pipe and odor will cling to a fixture like that and travel down it to the end, which is where she picked it up. So again, fringing, not following the vague odor back to the source.

Bottom line, I really would benefit from live instruction, learning to set hides intentionally to work on specifics. We learned a lot, Asha tried her best, so no fault on her - higher levels start putting pressure on the handler to learn the complications of how odor works in different scenes and teaching the dog to sort it out before alerting!

Here we are with day one results - a toy comes with a blue ribbon:



Saturday and Sunday I could have collected 8 of these, but thought one of each was plenty:

 

[Ravenbird]

Reckless had two runs in Detective and got 1 Q. The second day she missed one hide, so nq for that. It takes TEN Q's to get a Detective title, she now has 6.

 

[okaygreatthanks]

3 days of Scent Work, 4 trials per day, first time all elements are in Excellent. 3 hides in each element, but the judges start making them more difficult, using hides that are closer together where odors converge, in the sun where the heat takes the odor up etc. In other words it begins to get more complicated than just finding the hides. Day one Asha was great - 4 trials, Q'd in exterior giving her the Excellent Exterior Title and moving to Masters in that element. She also Q'd in Containers & Buried, so Friday I felt extremely confident! Saturday & Sunday was 0 for 4 both days though. Most of her alerts were due to fringing (alerting too far from the hide) and judges get tougher (and probably should to a degree) on how far away is allowed.

Congrats on the Excellent Exterior title! And man, some days just go like that where their alerts are off for whatever reason...all good experience and fun for them though.

Also Excellent Interiors introduces an unknown for the first time: there are 3 total hides in two different rooms. Trick is, 1 hide is in one room and the other 2 hides are in the other room, but you aren't told which room has 1 or 2. So first room you go to, if you find one hide, you keep searching until you find a 2nd hide, or you call finish if you think there isn't another hide. If you call finish and there was a 2nd hide, instant NQ. If you are correct, then you go on to room #2. Asha never got to room #2 in the 3 days. First day, she alerted on fringed odor, about 3 feet from the hide. 2nd day she alerted in the middle of converging odor, at a point half way between two hides, and the 3rd day she found 1 hide and I asked her to "find another" which she went round & round, acting like nothing else was there so I called finish, very confidently, but was wrong. There was a 2nd hide that for whatever reason Asha did not indicate at all. Containers and Buried, she false alerted close to nearby hides, so more fringing. Mater exteriors, we've got work to do! 1 - 4 hides, unknown to you, Asha got NQ on Saturday for alerting about 12 - 18 inches away from source.

This sounds super fun and challenging! Similar to the Master level in Barn Hunt, where there are 1-5 rats and you have to trust your dog to give you an all-clear alert – Remy's is a sit in front of me, while making eye contact, which he came up with on his own (I started high-fiving him afterwards and now he automatically holds his paw up to wait for that after I say "clear"...very cute!)

If he gives an all-clear but I know he hasn't searched a certain area, I'll usually lead him over to check that before calling it, but I've run the clock down a few times doing that...and it turned out he was indeed clear.

I've heard that dogs know exactly how much of a scent is in a room the moment they enter, so I've started looking for subtle cues when I train scentwork at home and in Barn Hunt practice. Typically, he works more quickly when there's more scent (more rats, more hides) in a room, so that's a good clue that there's more to find. He also tends to catalog when there's more scent, taking stock of the whole space and bouncing back and forth between hides before he definitively alerts. Training cluster hides have been really helpful for us when it comes to him pinpointing exactly where a scent is – I'll hide multiple items in one room (like one vessel in a nightstand drawer, one tucked underneath a pillow on the bed right next to it, and one in a shoe in the closet) and then only one item in the next room, rewarding with food right at the item/scent source.

If we're in our yard, I'll set up 10-20 traffic cones with varying proximity and put hides underneath different ones (this is helpful for clustering scents to work on pinpointing too, since he can nose right up to the correct cone and you can reward right at the cone). Fun to train outside while the weather is nice and there are more scents to distract him, whether it's in our yard, on a hike, at a Sniffspot, etc!

 

[Ravenbird]

Sounds like you have a great nose work dog! Are you trialing in Barn Hunt and Scent Work both? You have some good ideas for working hides.

 

[okaygreatthanks]

Are you trialing in Barn Hunt and Scent Work both?

Only in Barn Hunt for now, but we'll probably get into scent work trials eventually...just a matter of free time and money!

Sounds like you have a great nose work dog! You have some good ideas for working hides.

Thanks! It started as a matter of tiring him out as a puppy (especially because it rains 9 months of the year here and we needed an indoor activity), but he really took to nose work, so we do it every day. I love coming up with new challenges/games for him to keep it fun and interesting for both of us.

 

[Ravenbird]

Only in Barn Hunt for now, but we'll probably get into scent work trials eventually...just a matter of free time and money!

Totally get that. Keep working at it, they love the work. I'm assuming you're using trial scents for AKC or other venues so you can go right into when the time is right? We've done well up until now pretty much on our own creativity, but it's getting challenging without a live instructor to help. These dogs will take you anywhere you want to go if you just know how to teach them the game!

 

[okaygreatthanks]

Totally get that. Keep working at it, they love the work. I'm assuming you're using trial scents for AKC or other venues so you can go right into when the time is right?

He's trained with Cypress and Birch currently...I haven't rotated Anise or Clove into the mix yet though! Do they typically do a variety of multiple scents in trials, or just one?

We've done well up until now pretty much on our own creativity, but it's getting challenging without a live instructor to help. These dogs will take you anywhere you want to go if you just know how to teach them the game!

I hear ya! Our foray into scent work was playing hide and seek with his toys, and then I introduced the AKC scents, but we haven't had a formal trainer otherwise for just scent work. I'm sure I've made a lot of mistakes along the way! Having a regular instructor for Barn Hunt has helped tremendously though, and it's fun to see how his progress from one sport boosts developments in the other.

 

[Ravenbird]

Do they typically do a variety of multiple scents in trials, or just one?

AKC novice is one hide only, Birch, in 4 different elements: containers (for novice it's matching boxes), interiors, exteriors & buried (for novice it's 4" of sand in a plastic tub). That's the short version, all the rest of the rules and explains are on the AKC website. Be SURE to order odors that comply with AKC Scent Work and follow their recommendations for drop amounts on Q-tips. They also offer Handler Discrimination at some trials where your dog finds your personal scent on an object and ignores no scent/judges scented objects. Go for it - it's tons of fun!

 

[remy]

3 days of Scent Work, 4 trials per day, first time all elements are in Excellent. 3 hides in each element, but the judges start making them more difficult, using hides that are closer together where odors converge, in the sun where the heat takes the odor up etc. In other words it begins to get more complicated than just finding the hides. Day one Asha was great - 4 trials, Q'd in exterior giving her the Excellent Exterior Title and moving to Masters in that element. She also Q'd in Containers & Buried, so Friday I felt extremely confident! Saturday & Sunday was 0 for 4 both days though. Most of her alerts were due to fringing (alerting too far from the hide) and judges get tougher (and probably should to a degree) on how far away is allowed. Also Excellent Interiors introduces an unknown for the first time: there are 3 total hides in two different rooms. Trick is, 1 hide is in one room and the other 2 hides are in the other room, but you aren't told which room has 1 or 2. So first room you go to, if you find one hide, you keep searching until you find a 2nd hide, or you call finish if you think there isn't another hide. If you call finish and there was a 2nd hide, instant NQ. If you are correct, then you go on to room #2. Asha never got to room #2 in the 3 days. First day, she alerted on fringed odor, about 3 feet from the hide. 2nd day she alerted in the middle of converging odor, at a point half way between two hides, and the 3rd day she found 1 hide and I asked her to "find another" which she went round & round, acting like nothing else was there so I called finish, very confidently, but was wrong. There was a 2nd hide that for whatever reason Asha did not indicate at all. Containers and Buried, she false alerted close to nearby hides, so more fringing. Mater exteriors, we've got work to do! 1 - 4 hides, unknown to you, Asha got NQ on Saturday for alerting about 12 - 18 inches away from source. Then on Sunday she alerted about 8 FEET from source, but the hide was on a pipe and odor will cling to a fixture like that and travel down it to the end, which is where she picked it up. So again, fringing, not following the vague odor back to the source.

Bottom line, I really would benefit from live instruction, learning to set hides intentionally to work on specifics. We learned a lot, Asha tried her best, so no fault on her - higher levels start putting pressure on the handler to learn the complications of how odor works in different scenes and teaching the dog to sort it out before alerting!

Here we are with day one results - a toy comes with a blue ribbon:
View attachment 148612


Saturday and Sunday I could have collected 8 of these, but thought one of each was plenty:
View attachment 148613

You and Asha did great! Those upper levels are no joke! I’m sure it’s a little disappointing to have not Q’ed some of the days, but it gave you an opportunity to see what you guys need to work on!

I need to learn more scent theory things myself. I tend to set hides and not really think about where I’m putting them and how the placement could affect Remy’s “performance”. I would rather in-person classes too, but I think Fenzi has a workshop for hide placements that I could benefit taking lol.

 

[Ravenbird]

I need to learn more scent theory things myself. I tend to set hides and not really think about where I’m putting them and how the placement could affect Remy’s “performance”.

Exactly. Me too. I learned that Asha is so eager to show me that she found the odor that her "fast & furious" mode gets us into lots of trouble. A few posts back I had that video in the kitchen where she followed the odor back to source and I was really impressed with her dedication on that, and her slowing down. In this trial/level I believe the judges purposely make the hides a bit trickier to up the ante. This photo is from Master exterior. Asha alerted on the yellow post, a long ways from where the hide was. The odor traveled down the pipe, not the wall to that cluster of vertical pipes & posts. She alerted confidently so I called it. I know "trust your dog" is #1, but how do you say "keep looking" when they say they found it??? I have not "worked on" setting hides on purpose like this, and don't know enough theory to know exactly how to make sure it's going to work like I want it to.

 

[remy]

This photo is from Master exterior. Asha alerted on the yellow post, a long ways from where the hide was. The odor traveled down the pipe, not the wall to that cluster of vertical pipes & posts.

That definitely looks like a difficult hide! And I’m assuming the only openings in the pipe were on the ends?

She alerted confidently so I called it. I know "trust your dog" is #1, but how do you say "keep looking" when they say they found it??? I have not "worked on" setting hides on purpose like this, and don't know enough theory to know exactly how to make sure it's going to work like I want it to.

That’s probably the most challenging part, especially since she alerted clearly. I don’t have any advice since I’m still very new, but I’m curious to learn what the answer is for this type of situation. I feel like it could be easy to make the dog second guess themselves if they are clearly alerting and you tell them that isn’t it?

 

[Ravenbird]

I’m assuming the only openings in the pipe were on the ends?

No open ends. The hide was on the outside of the pipe, but I was told the pipe shape & temp. difference of the pipe and wall, the odor would travel around the pipe. Not a windy day, so it would cling, not blow around. This is where I def need a teacher!!! I know one that might do a consult on this video, I'll let you know if I get answers!

That’s probably the most challenging part, especially since she alerted clearly.

It is! How can I say no when she says Here It Is! ?

I feel like it could be easy to make the dog second guess themselves if they are clearly alerting and you tell them that isn’t it?

This was repeated in my training, to believe the dog, and the #1 reason you need to know where the hides are in training 90% of the time. Moreso if you have a sensitive dog. When they are not correct you can ignore the alert and tell them to keep searching. If you have a friend place the hides so you can practice like a trial, then you have to call alert, look at your friend say no, then back to the dog to keep searching. You still don't reward, but that pause makes the dog think they did something right or question why you didn't believe them. If you know it's not there when they alert you can instantly ask them to keep searching. One judge did always show me where the nearby hide was after a false alert so I could guide Asha to it & reward her there. What I have learned is that they are.not.lying. - they are on odor, just not following it back to source and it's our job to teach them that only the source pays, not the wafting odor.

Yeah, I'm anxious to know how to fix this!

Here's the whole video, about 50 seconds. You can see how big the area is, there are 1 - 4 hides (unknown to you, as few as 1 or as many as 4), time allowed was 3 minutes with no 30 second warning for running out of time. I have a stopwatch on so I can search until 2:50 if I want to before calling finish. Asha always blows through the start, not a good habit, but she will then settle and I had every intention of bringing her back to that area, but we NQ'd before we got a chance.

 

[remy]

No open ends. The hide was on the outside of the pipe, but I was told the pipe shape & temp. difference of the pipe and wall, the odor would travel around the pipe.

That makes a lot more sense. Now that I think about it, how would they have gotten the odor all the way in the pip like that lol. I guess I assumed since she picked up on the odor towards the end of it, that there was an opening to it there.

Not a windy day, so it would cling, not blow around. This is where I def need a teacher!!! I know one that might do a consult on this video, I'll let you know if I get answers!

Yes, definitely keep us updated. I’d love to learn more about it!

If you have a friend place the hides so you can practice like a trial, then you have to call alert, look at your friend say no, then back to the dog to keep searching. You still don't reward, but that pause makes the dog think they did something right or question why you didn't believe them. If you know it's not there when they alert you can instantly ask them to keep searching.

I plan to start doing this with Remy soon! I think we’ve trained enough that now we can test how well I can read him when I’m unsure of where the hide is.