Nosework Thread

Outside for planted searches, yes. I would be careful about a real wild search this early in the game. If your friends know where the morals might be in the wild and you can go with them to search, find the mushrooms first, then bring your dog in at a distance and set her up with your search alert to find them just as they grow, untouched by human hands, and preferably no footsteps leading to them. I did discover in practicing nose work that Asha was much faster to find hides that I had planted than hides my friends had planted. Then we all started taking notes and every dog found hides faster if their owner had planted them than one of the other people. So they are "pairing" your scent with the hides - which is OK when introducing any odor, but has to be proofed off for trials or real hunting!
yes, I was just thinking to get her in my back yard with outdoor things happening as they do, with me planting the hide. That's interesting about finding it quicker when planted by their human. I think there is a nosework competition for that at higher levels, but I can't remember the name of it right now. It's where the dog says which glove it's owner wore or something like that. Those introduction in the wild ideas are good ones, too.
 
Trained Final Response - This is how I train a TFR down on an object. This is called a shaped TFR, meaning the dog offers behavior and when it's what you want to see you click & reward. I use to like to use the word yes, but find the clicker somehow is more definitive with zero wavering in tone like a voice can be. (I still use "yes" when my hands are full with leash or toy rewards etc). So there is no hiding or finding - the target is right there. Your mushroom should be in a container with holes so the odor is there but she can't put her mouth on it. Set it down and when she goes to it click/reward. Toss the food a few feet away so she leaves the target. She'll come back and when she looks at it or smells it click/reward. Progress with silence, no verbal "good dog", no nothing. Without asking she will offer more behavior if looking at it and looking at you doesn't work, she may try sitting - click/reward at offered behavior, soon enough she will down. toss food further so she has to come back and start at square one approaching the target. then add duration - staying down with eyes on the prize, not looking at you for several seconds before the click/reward, then make it 10 seconds and so on. Make this a training session all on its own, don't do it while using hides. 3 - 5 minutes max, quit while she's still enthusiastic, if she gets frustrated back up to any good alert click/reward and stop the lesson. Appears she has excellent drive for food reward and I think she'll pick it up quickly. Remember that this has nothing to do with hide & seek or hunt drive or odor. It's about training a response to an object, so keep it separate. Later she'll associate it with the odor and begin doing it when she finds it in a search.

In this video, Asha had already been trained to down on a human scent article, so it came a bit faster to this new object, but even the very first time I taught this, she picked it up super fast. You have to watch with the sound up to hear the clicker, because the clicker timing is most important. If your dog has not been loaded/charged on a clicker, you would have to do that first and totally separate from any clicker training. Super important that the click happens before you reach for the treat so it's the sound that indicates the correct behavior, NOT your body language.


Most of all, have fun!
 
I think there is a nosework competition for that at higher levels, but I can't remember the name of it right now. It's where the dog says which glove it's owner wore or something like that.
In AKC it's called Handler Discrimination. I never did it because I thought I might be doing the IGP tracking or Article Search and both of those the first level is your own scent and after that it's a random persons scent (because it mimics finding an article dropped by a person you would be searching for). In AKC it is ALWAYS the handlers odor and it starts by the dog finding your article (glove) in a container amongst blank containers and works up to finding a cotton ball with your scent amongst other cotton balls with other peoples scent. They can never be allowed to indicate any persons odor but yours. That was in conflict with my plans and I'd already trained her to indicate articles with other peoples scent on it and didn't want to undo that. It would be great fun to do, I'm pretty sure UKC that you do has something very similar.
 
has nothing to do with hide & seek or hunt drive or odor. It's about training a response to an object
I should clarify that the "object" actually IS odor, not the container your mushroom is in. So when I say it's not about odor, I meant it's not about searching. In the wild the object will be a mushroom with that very odor, and not a similar mushroom with a different odor. So that might lead to a different proofing if you ever went pro on hunting morals! Making sure she doesn't alert on any ol' mushroom means you don't reward on any ol' mushroom if you only want morals. :sunglasses: I hope I'm not complicating things, it's actually easy once you're doing it. I mean look how quickly Z picked it up. Mainly I'm hoping to give you ideas of making things very clear to your dog sooner rather than trying to fix things later. Working mostly on my own I found the hardest thing to do is fix what I had wrongly rewarded my dog for, then later realized it was faulty in trial or in real life.

Cheering you on in the mushroom biz!
 
amazing video!
If your dog has not been loaded/charged on a clicker, you would have to do that first and totally separate from any clicker training.
i have clickers but have never used them in nosework training because bot UKC and CPE do not allow them at competitions. But here, the only judge will be the amount of Morels we score. Do you think that if i use it for Morels but not the oils, she would get confused? I am not sure if she would or wouldn't but I would love to hear your thoughts on that question. For me the answer so far is simply "she might". It's going to be hard to get my brain out of the "yes!" response.
Making sure she doesn't alert on any ol' mushroom means you don't reward on any ol' mushroom if you only want morals. :sunglasses: I hope I'm not complicating things, it's actually easy once you're doing it
This is huge. I probably will let the other mushroom finding to me, so that she always stays specific to Morels, which are hard to spot. The other ones like puffballs and pheasantbacks are really easy to spot for a human. It could be deadly if she just started to alert to something that all mushrooms have in common, so she will get rewarded only for Morels.
 
ok, took her outside for 2 planted searches. I know that my training consistency sucks, and i have my own routines that are hard to change or break, and I go back to default even when I want to change. That will show in these 2 videos. But hot damn this girl is on fire! I put the hide in the first video on the windward side of the yard to set her up for success. She did so well that I put it on the opposite side of the yard, where wind would not help her, and hid it where she could not easily see it, behind a landscaping brick.

first run:

second run:
 
i have clickers but have never used them in nosework training because bot UKC and CPE do not allow them at competitions.
Oh the internets, so hard to say everything clearly. The clicker is ONLY for teaching the TFR, not for finding the odor source. No need to use it for training to find the morels. Clicker train the down response to the odor as a separate training exercise. No clicker for your hidden search exercises, just proceed like your videos you shared. Use your "yes, hoo-ray, good girl" whatever verbal response to party with food when she finds the hide like normal.

I'm assuming she knows the word down, but never verbally say it when training the final response, as the clicker training is all about her doing it without a command. She just comes to understand that the down is her alert to you that she found it, just like turning to look at you was her alert before. As she transitions from alert by looking to alert by downing you might help a little, but once she gets several sessions on TFR she will probably start doing it on your searches, sometimes kinda combining them, look first and if you ignore her, then she will down and then party and treat. It's a process, but it is two different things. The TFR should go fairly quickly then no need to go back to it.

As an example when learning to Track for IGP, I was told to tracking completely separate from articles. Articles are the human scent pieces on the track. In trial when they are following the footstep tracks and find an article the dog downs with it between his front legs. The handler is 20 feet behind on a long line, so there is no way you can see the article. The dog downs and you advance to your dog, pick up the article and then send him forward on the track again. The rule (from my teacher, I'm sure there are different ways to teach it) was never ever put an article on a track until the dog will down on it in the house, in the yard, on a sidewalk, wherever the dog comes across an article he should down on it. Then when he finds it on a track he knows already to down on it, because he learned that's just what to do.

took her outside for 2 planted searches.
You're right, she's very keen on the odor, and is loving the game. Awesome!

You don't even HAVE to train a TFR if you don't want to. I thought it might help if she stays with a wild mushroom instead of getting excited and pouncing around and end up trampling one... If she's on leash on your wild hunts that could control her, but if it's safe I'd always rather be off leash. The zigging and zagging and being halfway graceful without getting tangled in the leash can be a challenge. :rofl: The other thing I was going to mention is when you do an actual hunt you should somehow be prepared to plant a hide somewhere in case she doesn't find any wild ones. So she wins. It's extremely important that if you send her to find something and there's nothing there that she doesn't get frustrated. They do this with SAR dogs a lot, when the search for hours and can't find a victim one of the SAR people will hide so a dog can find/get the reward and get a well deserved break. I don't even know when the season is, but since @LifeofRubie recently found them maybe you are training for next year and have tons of time to get all this down. LOL. I had it in my mind you wanted to be ready to go in a week or two.
 
Oh the internets, so hard to say everything clearly. The clicker is ONLY for teaching the TFR, not for finding the odor source. No need to use it for training to find the morels. Clicker train the down response to the odor as a separate training exercise. No clicker for your hidden search exercises, just proceed like your videos you shared. Use your "yes, hoo-ray, good girl" whatever verbal response to party with food when she finds the hide like normal.
Thank you! I hadn't separated the finding from the TFR in my mind, and this was extremely helpful to me to understand that these are 2 separate trainings.
I'm assuming she knows the word down, but never verbally say it when training the final response, as the clicker training is all about her doing it without a command. She just comes to understand that the down is her alert to you that she found it, just like turning to look at you was her alert before. As she transitions from alert by looking to alert by downing you might help a little, but once she gets several sessions on TFR she will probably start doing it on your searches, sometimes kinda combining them, look first and if you ignore her, then she will down and then party and treat. It's a process, but it is two different things. The TFR should go fairly quickly then no need to go back to it.
This makes a lot of sense and would be a nice feature no matter what kind of find she scores.
You don't even HAVE to train a TFR if you don't want to. I thought it might help if she stays with a wild mushroom instead of getting excited and pouncing around and end up trampling one...
I think I would like to teach one, exactly for the reason of not bouncing back to me, so I have a more efficient idea of where the mushroom is.
If she's on leash on your wild hunts that could control her, but if it's safe I'd always rather be off leash. The zigging and zagging and being halfway graceful without getting tangled in the leash can be a challenge
I would rather be off leash, too. But instead of gracefulness in mind, giving her limited line is so limiting to her ability to run long in an area and use the wind to get that molecule and start the process of narrowing down it's location.
The other thing I was going to mention is when you do an actual hunt you should somehow be prepared to plant a hide somewhere in case she doesn't find any wild ones. So she wins.
Yep, I am a big believer in this. In our UKC trials in novice class, if we failed, the judge would tell me where the hide was, then directed me to take her to it and get her nose on it and treat her for it. That was not allowed in advanced, but I did appreciate it in novice.
I had it in my mind you wanted to be ready to go in a week or two.
some Minnesota counties have them now, but not here yet. She might not be refined, but I would like to get her out to try when they are out. we can always learn something about getting more refined.
 

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