Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
Yes.... "Bruce" and somehow has managed to get him registered with AKC.
No really he IS purebred - or is he?
- Thread starter Curing
- Start date
Yes.... "Bruce" and somehow has managed to get him registered with AKC.
Curing
Member
Very interested in the pedigree of that dog for sure.
Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
I have the pedigree for Maui... whelped Nov 27, 2018...... and already been used for breeding, litter due late this month... which means he was only 10 mo old when he was used to produce.
The other one, "Bruce".... whelped Feb 04, 2019
"Here at NWR Dobermans we breed for conformation, temperament, and health."
Not one of their dogs are even remotely correct conformation wise. They test through Embark but I see no OFA results (oh that's right, they have to be 24 mo to do PRE-BREEDING screening). No Holter results anywhere.
What a disservice to the breed.
crypticintent
Hot Topics Subscriber
The latest pic of Maui. I think I could teach my computer to make a more realistic looking dog, much less doberman.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
Does she call it a Doberman? Sorry I did not read all posts. It is absolutely awful.
I am afraid that's what would happen with "fashion" to have low COI for any cost and ignore all other genetic traits.
We will lose our breed.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
Sorry I meant "breeding for high COI"... correction.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
OMG I am totally confused sorry! High diversity and low COI... 
I hope it is right this time
I hope it is right this time
Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
Yes, both Maui & Bruce.
A breeder from the Philippines asked about puppies this same color, and got butt hurt when he didn't get the responses he'd hoped for. The other day, a pup about 6 mo popped up on an ear posting FB page and someone told the op "Ummm that's not even a Dobe".... I asked if they'd gotten the pup from the Philippines and she was pretty shocked that I knew.
After she spouted the EE & ee gene (ORANGE btw) crap, poof, she deleted her post.
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
I am shocked people are buying those puppies for $1500. It makes much more sense to adopt from a shelter. Those dogs are not Dobermans.
Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
Hmmm, happened to see a dog in the Hound Group that made me wonder.... is this the orange culprit?
Cirneco (chir-neco)
Cirneco dell'Etna Info, Temperament, Puppies, Pictures
Cirneco (chir-neco)
Cirneco dell'Etna Info, Temperament, Puppies, Pictures
dobiedobie
Lurking Member
It's more like ya'll here are the ones butthurt. You claimed your dogs are health tested, right? Then what's your dog COI? What are your dogs "at risk" or carrier? Common, be honest...
I bought one recessive red from Philippines too, from the only kennel who is doing Embark. They shared to me their Embark results, and turns out their dogs are 100% doberman. Not to mention the COI is very low (lowest is 20%, highest is 22%) and here's the kicker -- CLEAR of any health issues, including the most dreaded DCM. I asked about OFA, but they could not provide because there's none in the country, and they only have 1 or 2 canine cardiologists within the country. So that sums up to me doing the OFA for my dog.
You know, you should not judge a dog and generalize the entire recessive red coated dobies, just because they don't look good in photos. They are as much as majestic than the classic accepted colors and they also have the same drive and athletic spirit.
If you can be bothered to get one to really get to know if they got the doberman temperaments or to really see it in person, then I suggest you stop the discrimination. This isn't the first time this coat color pops up. Here is an old post that I found -- Real red doberman -- and I am sure there's even way more dated back, but people are just afraid to speak up and show this coat color, because somehow a group of people like you all, who likes to sit and grill someone just because they are unique and different, exists.
And please don't try to ban me and remove my thread, especially like Panama who is a moderator, and is so against this color. Be fair and equal here. I love dobermans, and I do genuinely care for their longevity and disposition, but if we try to shot down any queer because they "simply don't fit in to standards", then this doberman breed is a lost cause then.
I bought one recessive red from Philippines too, from the only kennel who is doing Embark. They shared to me their Embark results, and turns out their dogs are 100% doberman. Not to mention the COI is very low (lowest is 20%, highest is 22%) and here's the kicker -- CLEAR of any health issues, including the most dreaded DCM. I asked about OFA, but they could not provide because there's none in the country, and they only have 1 or 2 canine cardiologists within the country. So that sums up to me doing the OFA for my dog.
You know, you should not judge a dog and generalize the entire recessive red coated dobies, just because they don't look good in photos. They are as much as majestic than the classic accepted colors and they also have the same drive and athletic spirit.
If you can be bothered to get one to really get to know if they got the doberman temperaments or to really see it in person, then I suggest you stop the discrimination. This isn't the first time this coat color pops up. Here is an old post that I found -- Real red doberman -- and I am sure there's even way more dated back, but people are just afraid to speak up and show this coat color, because somehow a group of people like you all, who likes to sit and grill someone just because they are unique and different, exists.
And please don't try to ban me and remove my thread, especially like Panama who is a moderator, and is so against this color. Be fair and equal here. I love dobermans, and I do genuinely care for their longevity and disposition, but if we try to shot down any queer because they "simply don't fit in to standards", then this doberman breed is a lost cause then.
LunaDobie
Jr Member
@dobiedobie - I had a look at the FB of the breeder and I was horrified. They are breeding Dobermans for those "special" colours. I have a fawn Dobermann - she comes from a pedigree line that's longer than a Queen of England's and was a genetic accident. We love her but she costs us fortune due to allergies and CDA her particular colour can come with. I swear to God, I would beat every breeder breeding Albinos, blues or fawns for that particular purpose with a long stick. It also looks like they are mixing other breeds into the breeding mix to get a particular colour. If you breed for colour, anything else gets a second seat, be it character or health issues.
Please, don't even try to defend breeders like that. They only care about the rare colours because it can bring them good money, because it's "different". I would never breed my Luna, because I would be first of all afraid of what the hormonal changes would do to her in terms of her health issues, second, I don't know whether her pups would inherit her colour, thus all the potential problems coming with it.
I really find it very difficult to understand how someone can defend breeding of dogs, especially Dobies to get those "special" colours. If I get another Dobie, it would certainly be black/rust or brown/rust. We took her because we fell in love with her character - her colour didn't play any role in it and I certainly wouldn't take a fawn because "it looks cool". That' just madness.
Please, don't even try to defend breeders like that. They only care about the rare colours because it can bring them good money, because it's "different". I would never breed my Luna, because I would be first of all afraid of what the hormonal changes would do to her in terms of her health issues, second, I don't know whether her pups would inherit her colour, thus all the potential problems coming with it.
I really find it very difficult to understand how someone can defend breeding of dogs, especially Dobies to get those "special" colours. If I get another Dobie, it would certainly be black/rust or brown/rust. We took her because we fell in love with her character - her colour didn't play any role in it and I certainly wouldn't take a fawn because "it looks cool". That' just madness.
All breeds have standards. If a dog does not fit the standard then it can't be true to the breed. A good breeder will go to great lengths to follow not only breed standard, but health and temperament. You say not to try and ban you, why would you be banned? Seems like you only came to this forum to agitate. If you love the Doberman breed as much as you claim, then you should want to follow the standards. Until those standards are changed the dog in question is not true to the breed.
Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
I have no intentions of banning you or removing your thread. I wouldn't do that without a general consensus of all the mods. Besides, I think it might help educate someone looking for a Doberman pup learn both sides of your argument and to steer clear of breeders like this.
I stand by my convictions that NONE of those dogs are remotely close to the AKC standard. I know ALL dogs have faults, but when you look at a dog, there should be no doubt what breed it is!
dobiedobie
Lurking Member
Okay first, I didn't come here to agitate. I came here because I was looking to get more information about this coat color, and lo and behold, I found this thread. I read through from the first page all the way to the last thread comment.
Second, I wasn't defending the breeder. I am merely stating the fact. I have already mentioned that I was talking about my dog, which again, I didn't buy from the NWR kennel.
Third, you did not address the questions at hand -- what are your dogs' COI? What are your dogs' "at risk" and/or "carrier with"?
The fact that you have not answered any logical and science-backed explanations, but rather aiming your arrows to the coat color itself and "how it should look like" is why I deduced you're butthurt.
It really seems like you have not read entirely my comment above. I stated that I own a recessive red right now, 100% doberman (tested twice) with CLEAR on any health issues (as far as genetic hereditary), no health problems, no sunlight problems, no alopecia, very athletic and agile. He looks very majestic especially during early morning sunlight. In fact, he is the most healthiest of my pack right now. I got two here with classic black/rust color, came from a champ line, and it would be a miracle if I don't get a vet appointment at least once a quarter. A suddent cyst, a breathing problem (yes, I have a DCM dobie), etc.
My recessive red? He only goes to vet for vax, and that's it!
To which I also said -- you gotta own one, before you judge it.
But neither of you have it, am I right? So you are basically assuming all those stuff base on what? Photos? A breeder's ethics that you just happen to see on their fb page? Because they don't know how to create a website?
And about conformation... Like seriously?? You're basing your conformation with AKC? Have you even seen the photos of the first doberman, or even the early versions of dobermans? It doesn't look like what you're showing off in the rings.
Not to mention, I've met a few dobermans in the local shows here (before pandemic started), and their temparement is nothing close to how a doberman should behave when approached by strangers.
Second, I wasn't defending the breeder. I am merely stating the fact. I have already mentioned that I was talking about my dog, which again, I didn't buy from the NWR kennel.
Third, you did not address the questions at hand -- what are your dogs' COI? What are your dogs' "at risk" and/or "carrier with"?
The fact that you have not answered any logical and science-backed explanations, but rather aiming your arrows to the coat color itself and "how it should look like" is why I deduced you're butthurt.
It really seems like you have not read entirely my comment above. I stated that I own a recessive red right now, 100% doberman (tested twice) with CLEAR on any health issues (as far as genetic hereditary), no health problems, no sunlight problems, no alopecia, very athletic and agile. He looks very majestic especially during early morning sunlight. In fact, he is the most healthiest of my pack right now. I got two here with classic black/rust color, came from a champ line, and it would be a miracle if I don't get a vet appointment at least once a quarter. A suddent cyst, a breathing problem (yes, I have a DCM dobie), etc.
My recessive red? He only goes to vet for vax, and that's it!
To which I also said -- you gotta own one, before you judge it.
But neither of you have it, am I right? So you are basically assuming all those stuff base on what? Photos? A breeder's ethics that you just happen to see on their fb page? Because they don't know how to create a website?
And about conformation... Like seriously?? You're basing your conformation with AKC? Have you even seen the photos of the first doberman, or even the early versions of dobermans? It doesn't look like what you're showing off in the rings.
Not to mention, I've met a few dobermans in the local shows here (before pandemic started), and their temparement is nothing close to how a doberman should behave when approached by strangers.
Sorry to offend you, I didn't realize your point of view must be agreed with. I didn't see anything on this forum that said the members on here are experts, although they should be entitled to their opinions. I also didn't realize you were an expert on Dobermans.
dobiedobie
Lurking Member
No, I'm not offended. Again, as I said, I'm just stating the fact here... Whether I'm an expert or not, is irrelevant. You still didn't answer my questions.
I don't pretend to be an expert. I believe in breed standards. You were the one who posted that we were "butthurt", that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Have a great day!
LunaDobie
Jr Member
@dobiedobie - the only person who seems to be extremely butthurt is yourself. Get over yourself. This thread isn't about your dog.
Also confirmation and standards are pretty important - without standards, you can't have exceptions to them. I know that my fawn is an exception and I abide by the rules for that exception - no shows, no breeding.
When it comes to colour - the reason why people are so critical on this thread is that unscrupulous breeders breed for colour and anything else goes out of the window. Looks at the FB of the NRW kennels. They seem to specialise on unusual colours - that's bad.
I can't really say much about the character of American Dobies, I only know one, the European ones are still pretty much the same as they were bred for originally - alert, assertive, protective, stubborn AF.
Also confirmation and standards are pretty important - without standards, you can't have exceptions to them. I know that my fawn is an exception and I abide by the rules for that exception - no shows, no breeding.
When it comes to colour - the reason why people are so critical on this thread is that unscrupulous breeders breed for colour and anything else goes out of the window. Looks at the FB of the NRW kennels. They seem to specialise on unusual colours - that's bad.
I can't really say much about the character of American Dobies, I only know one, the European ones are still pretty much the same as they were bred for originally - alert, assertive, protective, stubborn AF.
dobiedobie
Lurking Member
So you'd rather turn your back here, instead of answering my two questions about your dogs and prove me wrong?
I didn't even said that you have to pretend to be an expert. You can believe with breed standards all day long, but at the end of the day, does your dog came from a bottleneck gene pool, with very high COI? Is your dog carrying genetic health risk or carrying it?
If you can't answer it and refute how a recessive red be discriminated when it's 100% doberman and way way more healthier than your dogs, then you've lost the argument.
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