I need help. My Doberman mix is extremely aggressive.

[AggressiveDobie416]

Hello. I have a nearly 4-year-old 57lb Doberman mix (fixed, mostly doberman, don't know what else he is mixed with..) that I rescued at the shelter in February. Since I've had him, he has progressively become more and more aggressive. He was returned to the shelter by other families 2 times. I will not give up on him, but he has started to bite me and shake my hand/arm full force when I do something to set him off. It can be anything from playtime to touching him when he isn't expecting it. He has drawn blood and I'm lucky he hasn't broken a finger. He growls at my girlfriend constantly and has nipped her too. Sometimes he will walk over to her, put his head on her lap, then growl and try to bite her while she is asleep and not even moving).

He is extremely possessive of me, and I have tried every different type of training that I could think of. Positive reinforcement, treats, electric collar, crating for misbehavior, etc. He does not respond to the training. He acts like I am the alpha for the most part but constantly challenges me. It's crazy because he just turns a switch and will suddenly be in pyscho mode with no warning. Then he will stop growling and be very affectionate. I don't know how to deal with this situation.

I adopted a second dog in May but had to take the second dog back to the shelter because my Doberman (despite meeting the other dog at the shelter and getting along great with it) decided he didn't like the new dog and the two dogs tried to kill each other. My Doberman is not friendly with other people or other dogs. I'm the only person he tolerates, and even then, not always. I am not wealthy by any means ($7 to my name at the moment) and I am trying to pay my way through college so I cannot afford formal training. I am losing hope that this dog will ever get along with my girlfriend or at least be sociable with other dogs. As a side note, I exercise with him regularly, I take him running. So it's not that he just has too much energy. His eyes will just dilate and his heckles will raise, and he just blows up on me or my girlfriend. I love him but I don't know how to deal with this.


Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated....

-Rob

 

[jazzies mum]

Welcome. This problem is way out of my league but there will be many others who can help! Obviously he has learned this behaviour previously and ended up in a shelter, so it might take patience to get to the bottom of it. Maybe a visit to the vet for a health check would be a good idea to start with.

 

[AggressiveDobie416]

Welcome. This problem is way out of my league but there will be many others who can help! Obviously he has learned this behaviour previously and ended up in a shelter, so it might take patience to get to the bottom of it. Maybe a visit to the vet for a health check would be a good idea to start with.

I've been to the vet and he got a clean bill of health. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Welcome!

Oh my, this is quite a situation. Sounds rough. You are in college too, while working? I am glad you sent your second dog back. You have way more than you can handle right now, no offense.

I really admire your position of not giving up on this dog; however, boy, I don't know!

In my view, my dog will never put its teeth on me and get away with it. That is fundamentally a broken situation – a foundation that is crumbling. If you can't get your dog to stop biting you then I don't see how you can move forward.

You say (and please don't think I'm attacking you. I'm trying to help.) that you think your dog sees you as Alpha. Can you describe how you find this to be the case?

You mention positive reinforcement training. That method certainly does not work for every dog!

Lastly: My previous Doberman would unpredictably lash out at people – including my wife! I know my way around training, and this breed. Still, I could not keep him from doing so. I got this Dobe as a young pup and he came from a reputable, accomplished breeder. I never accepted him going after my wife. Looking back, I cringe at how I had to take him down and put all 90 pounds of pound-for-pound very strong Doberman on his back and mount him; but it was what was necessary at the time. No way could I let my dog attack my wife. I loved that Dobe and I miss him dearly. He was a great, formidable, capable and awesome Dobe. I sought out advice from a trainer I knew. She surmised that it was resource-guarding – that resource being access to Alpha. Anyone who would approach us might be seen as a threat to his access to me. I wound up finally being driven to the point of seeking to return him to the breeder at the age of 7, but I could not bring myself to send my beloved boy away. In talking to the breeder I found out that, a few years prior, his littermate had to be put down due to "violent seizures" or "rages."

I am not saying that is what your dog has. I know that a dog that is – behaviorally – acting out aggressively can stiffen up and get a sort of far-away look in the eyes; but that is how my former boy looked just a second or two before lashing out.

My best guess is that your dog has had bad prior experiences and is from unknown breeding and is not trained as he needs to be.

Keep us posted!

 

[strykerdobe]

I've been to the vet and he got a clean bill of health. Thanks for the reply!

Did the Vet do a Full Thyroid Panel?? And not just a T4???

 

[Brioddy]

Before I ever got involved in other breeds, I’ve always had American Pit Bull Terriers.

As harsh as it may sound, true pit bull people will tell you to cull a dog that is people aggressive. Period. It’s against everything they should be as a breed, they already face enough adversity with their public image, and the truth is there are so many great dogs needing homes that will not bite or endanger you or others.

Just my two cents.

 

[Regalis]

Before I ever got involved in other breeds, I’ve always had American Pit Bull Terriers.

As harsh as it may sound, true pit bull people will tell you to cull a dog that is people aggressive. Period. It’s against everything they should be as a breed, they already face enough adversity with their public image, and the truth is there are so many great dogs needing homes that will not bite or endanger you or others.

Just my two cents.

This if he's otherwise checked out as healthy, this sounds like an unstable dog. One that likely should never have been adopted out, let alone numerous times. (Really, wtf was the shelter thinking?!)

Without knowing the dogs history, it gets even more tricky. Was he abused? Poorly bred? What were the parents like? These are important things, but impossible to know at this point.

What we do know is - you have a dog that besides your best efforts is a danger to not only you, the owner, but any human or animal it comes into contact with. There are two ways to address this. 1 - make damn sure the dog never has a chance to harm anyone or any animal. That requires a level of dedication and proactive measures that many are unwilling to do. It means the dog is muzzled at all times and under leash control outdoors. Dog is crated when anyone is over. Dog is never, ever permitted to run free, go to dog parks, go to stores, etc. It *can* be done. But is it really fair to the dog OR you? This option also comes with tremendous liability and responsibility. You also have to consider age - are you willing to do this for another potentially 10+ years? Option 2 - humanely euthanize.

Technically option 3 would be to return the dog. But seeing as the shelter has already had it returned twice, presumably for problems, and adopted it back out - I wouldn't go this route. It sometimes ducks to have to be the responsible one, but is none the less a very admirable quality.

The important thing to remember here is - you didn't cause this situation. The shelter did, imo. This is why dogs should be thoroughly evaluated before adoption, regardless of breed/mix.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Yikes... I, too, am surprised the shelter keeps adopting him out. I've always been suspicious of their motives since I had ownership issues with a dog "I" adopted out some years back. But I digress!

You must absolutely NOT let this dog off leash around other dogs or people or even give him the opportunity to get out and go after someone/something. That will be a lawsuit, for sure. LISTEN: do you have renters/home owners insurance and will it cover a dog bite incident? With renters, this usually comes in the form of Umbrella insurance, etc. It is not expensive but a necessity for ALL dog owners, IMO, especially with dogs that could pose a threat. Get that sorted out ASAP.

Is there anyway a NILF would work here, @Regalis , @Brioddy , @Oh Little Oji , @jazzies mum ? Work for his food throughout the day and learn that the people in the house are good and will feed you if you behave?

@AggressiveDobie416 do NOT worry about your dog being sociable with other dogs, at this time. Some dogs just aren't and some only with very slow and very proper introductions.

Dare I ask... does he go for walks? Get exercise physically/mentally somehow? Or is he just in the house all the time?

 

[Regalis]

Insurance - also check that it will cover him, specifically. Some exclude certain breeds/mixes. Many exclude dogs with a known history (which he now has).

Nilif training. .... Man. I dunno. There are just so many issues at play here. Going after the GF completely unprovoked. Causing injury to owner. Fighting another dog. Could it? Yes. Is it worth trying? I can't answer that. It's not my life in jeopardy.

Personally - I won't rehab dogs that will bite *me*. Stranger, dog, etc aggression is one thing. But the dog *has* to beable to be safely handled by the owner, which it sounds like this boy can't be.

 

[Brioddy]

I’ve had firsthand experience with this sort of thing, and what it comes down to is there are dogs out there that are just unstable no matter what you do. There are people like that as well. My mom adopted a dog from the shelter who was very sweet in the beginning, my mom took her everywhere with her even to work as she owns her own upholstery shop. Within a matter of months this dog became so possessive over my mom that even I could not come over to her house without the dog having to be locked in another room, and even then she’d go crazy growling and tearing at the door trying to get out. It was unsettling. This wasn’t a dog sequestered inside the house constantly, she was always going out and about meeting and greeting new people new places and other animals. We aren’t sure why she turned the way she did, but with shelter dogs you have no idea their genetic makeup or their history. It’s sad but sometimes it’s just best to give another dog a chance instead of risking yourself and others.

 

[AggressiveDobie416]

Welcome!

Oh my, this is quite a situation. Sounds rough. You are in college too, while working? I am glad you sent your second dog back. You have way more than you can handle right now, no offense.

I really admire your position of not giving up on this dog; however, boy, I don't know!

In my view, my dog will never put its teeth on me and get away with it. That is fundamentally a broken situation – a foundation that is crumbling. If you can't get your dog to stop biting you then I don't see how you can move forward.

You say (and please don't think I'm attacking you. I'm trying to help.) that you think your dog sees you as Alpha. Can you describe how you find this to be the case?

You mention positive reinforcement training. That method certainly does not work for every dog!

Lastly: My previous Doberman would unpredictably lash out at people – including my wife! I know my way around training, and this breed. Still, I could not keep him from doing so. I got this Dobe as a young pup and he came from a reputable, accomplished breeder. I never accepted him going after my wife. Looking back, I cringe at how I had to take him down and put all 90 pounds of pound-for-pound very strong Doberman on his back and mount him; but it was what was necessary at the time. No way could I let my dog attack my wife. I loved that Dobe and I miss him dearly. He was a great, formidable, capable and awesome Dobe. I sought out advice from a trainer I knew. She surmised that it was resource-guarding – that resource being access to Alpha. Anyone who would approach us might be seen as a threat to his access to me. I wound up finally being driven to the point of seeking to return him to the breeder at the age of 7, but I could not bring myself to send my beloved boy away. In talking to the breeder I found out that, a few years prior, his littermate had to be put down due to "violent seizures" or "rages."

I am not saying that is what your dog has. I know that a dog that is – behaviorally – acting out aggressively can stiffen up and get a sort of far-away look in the eyes; but that is how my former boy looked just a second or two before lashing out.

My best guess is that your dog has had bad prior experiences and is from unknown breeding and is not trained as he needs to be.

Keep us posted!

He listens to me most of the time and I have taken him down before as you did with your dog. I only do that when he snaps, but for the most part when I hear growling and I get up and see him harassing my girlfriend he will think twice about what he is doing. The problem is he is doing it in the first place.

As far as insurance, no I am not covered. I did put a sign in the window saying there is an attack dog on premises though (warning that entering may lead to injury).

He has not had that done on a blood panel. I'll look into getting that done.


He has good days and bad days. But i've invested nearly a year with this dog. I love him and I won't give up on him. There's no way I could put him down.. He had a rough life prior to being with me.

On good days he will grab a toy when he growls so he is less tempted to bite. On bad days, he drops the toy. It's just confusing to be around him. He can be such a sweetheart, which makes you think he's approachable. Then suddenly, he decides he doesn't want any more attention.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

If you are hard set on keeping this dog, the first thing I would do is purchase a muzzle and a prong collar. I would not use an ecollar until he is trained to know the commands you give him.

He needs to be trained starting from the ground floor up. If he growls or tries to attack then a strong but calm correction from you using a quick snap of the prong and a verbal command.

In reading all that has been said, I feel like this is a fear based issue. Attack before being attacked. You don’t know how prior owners treated him so he is going to need calm assertive but fair training. He needs to learn this behavior is not going to be tolerated and he needs to look to both you and your GF as alphas. Always keep the muzzle on when he is out. Praise his positive behavior and correct his negative. Learn to read his body language and distract his behavior before it escalates to a red zone.
If you are going to do this then it is a lot of work, just establishing trust is the first step and work from there.
I know money is tight but I would certainly enlist the help of an animal behaviorist, if nothing else but for an evaluation and guidance.
If after a specific time (months +) and there is no improvement then you have to weigh the dangers of having him if he doesn’t assimilate into the family.
That leaves euthanasia as an option because obviously the animal shelter is not responsible in how they place their dogs especially one with a bite history!!
They are culpable in this and should be held accountable regardless of the outcome.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

He listens to me most of the time and I have taken him down before as you did with your dog. I only do that when he snaps, but for the most part when I hear growling and I get up and see him harassing my girlfriend he will think twice about what he is doing. The problem is he is doing it in the first place.

As far as insurance, no I am not covered. I did put a sign in the window saying there is an attack dog on premises though (warning that entering may lead to injury).

He has not had that done on a blood panel. I'll look into getting that done.


He has good days and bad days. But i've invested nearly a year with this dog. I love him and I won't give up on him. There's no way I could put him down.. He had a rough life prior to being with me.

On good days he will grab a toy when he growls so he is less tempted to bite. On bad days, he drops the toy. It's just confusing to be around him. He can be such a sweetheart, which makes you think he's approachable. Then suddenly, he decides he doesn't want any more attention.

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Looking at his picture he looks to have some type of terrier in him.
A DNA test could provide you with what mix he has in him and that might be a key on how to approach training.

I definitely would start practicing NILIF training. (Nothing in life is free)
Make him earn everything. Feed him by hand and make him work for his food. Have him do something to earn the food. Sit, stay, down, etc. soon he realizes if he wants to eat he HAS to come to you calmly to be fed.
A full thyroid panel should be done on him by the vet. It still could be a medical issue.

 

[AggressiveDobie416]

Looking at his picture he looks to have some type of terrier in him.
A DNA test could provide you with what mix he has in him and that might be a key on how to approach training.

I definitely would start practicing NILIF training. (Nothing in life is free)
Make him earn everything. Feed him by hand and make him work for his food. Have him do something to earn the food. Sit, stay, down, etc. soon he realizes if he wants to eat he HAS to come to you calmly to be fed.
A full thyroid panel should be done on him by the vet. It still could be a medical issue.

Ok I'll start trying to train him that way! I will take him for a panel as soon as I can.

 

[Regalis]

Definitely all of what Bri said. Muzzle. This is important. You need to prevent bites.

Insurance - start that asap. But I don't know what your options will be with a dog with known issues. Do NOT lie. It will do you no good in the long run.

Signs - double edged sword. Look into your local and state laws and precedence regarding signs. While well intended, in some places they can be used to show that you knowingly posessed a dangerous dog (which is often illegal). That can lead to bigger issues.

In public - he absolutely needs to be muzzled outside of the home, especially off of your property (if you rent, then outside period). No unsupervised outside time, ever. You're going to have to be super duper beyond dilligent and proactive.

Prong, with dedicated back up and a sturdy leash or even double leash. Vest with "do not pet" patches. It may seem overbearing, but it doesn't matter. You absolutely can not allow strangers to interact with him at this time.

A second a dna test. I also see some terrier traits in there and that could be an important part of his behaivor. Terriers can be ... Well, fun, but tricky. Some have animal aggression intentionally bred in (this is *not* a knock against them, I actually love game dogs ... But they require some different strategies to be safely and properly managed).

 

[AggressiveDobie416]

Ive tried prong collars but he doesn't respond well to them. I have a blue 9 harness that works well, but I need to get a muzzle. He's usually better behaved outside and I never let people pet him, but I think you all are right in saying I need one.

He does have a drive to hunt. I take him to the woods and he just chases everything that moves. That also means on walks he is liable to do the same. I'm interested to know what he is mixed with too. The shelter said "doberman/beauceron mix" but he doesn't have the extra toes, and is on the small side for either breed.

 

[Regalis]

Beauceron? Ehhhhh. Doubt it.

I'd say dobe/terrier. It would explain the ears, size and tennacity.

Chasing - ok, so because of his issues, you can not allow this. He should never, ever be off leash outside of a secure fence. You also are going to want to *discourage* chasing, for now. You may beable to reintroduce it later.

 

[AggressiveDobie416]

Beauceron? Ehhhhh. Doubt it.

I'd say dobe/terrier. It would explain the ears, size and tennacity.

Chasing - ok, so because of his issues, you can not allow this. He should never, ever be off leash outside of a secure fence. You also are going to want to *discourage* chasing, for now. You may beable to reintroduce it later.

Oh, just to clarify.. This was about 50 miles away from civilization when I took him off leash. Definitely an exception. Nobody around. I never let him off near home. I am skeptical of the shelter's breed claim as well.

 

[LifeofRubie]

As for affection, I wouldn't give him any at this point unless HE'S looking for it. If he responds negatively to touch at unpredictable times, I would think it would be best to avoid putting him in a situation where he feels threatened.

If HE comes up to you looking for affection, I would offer it calmly and very briefly. When he's done, let him walk away. We do this with our Dobe and strangers in public (she's far from aggressive or reactive). If we're talking to someone, I will tell them they can pet her if SHE comes up to them. We don't force physical interactions because honestly, sometimes she just doesn't enjoy it (from strangers).

He needs to learn trust AND respect, it sounds like, but it goes both ways. I do not envy your position

 

[Regalis]

This was about 50 miles away from civilization when I took him off leash.

Unfortunately, with his issues, you really can not allow this anymore. Even out in the middle of nowhere. There is *always* a chance of running into another person. Always.