Flint's Left Ear

[StateOfMine]

So Flint has had some gagging and head flicking with his left ear lower and off to the side than his right. It's not all the time, but I especially noticed it this morning and I took him to the vet. I smelled his ear, because when he gets an ear infection or something is irritating it, it has a "dirty sock" smell. It didn't have it, but I took him anyway. The vet checked both ears and said they looked fine, with some wax build up in his left ear. He used an ear wash that had a "drying agent" that made Flint whine the entire time the vet tech cleaned his ear. If it was just wax build up, would it really cause him to whine like that? About 2 months ago, Flint had cheat grass removed from that same ear. He underwent anesthesia and everything to get it out, but it can be difficult to remove it entirely and I was told by the tech it was possible he'd have to come back.

I don't know what to think, because when he had the cheat grass in his ear, I could smell that his ear was not okay. Does anyone know what would cause the gagging and the ear discomfort? I have a hard time trusting vets as it is, due to an entire fairly dramatic incident with my cat during covid that ended with his death and being in the hole $6000 across 3 months of vet visits. So now I never know if I am being paranoid or if my gut instinct is correct.

Off subject a bit but honestly I've been debating seeing a therapist because my reaction to vets/vet offices isn't normal. The particular emergency vet in Boise that I went to many times when my cat was sick I actually panicked to the point I threw up when I had to take Flint there. He was fine, just ate half of a family size bag of chocolate chip cookies when my husband fell asleep on the couch instead of watched him closely. They induced vomiting to make sure he didn't eat the plastic container because it was, in a word, disintegrated when I came home. No plastic in his vomit though. Just cookies and a small piece of a shoe (wtf??).

 

[Ravenbird]

About 2 months ago, Flint had cheat grass removed from that same ear. He underwent anesthesia and everything to get it out, but it can be difficult to remove it entirely and I was told by the tech it was possible he'd have to come back.

I don't know what to think, because when he had the cheat grass in his ear, I could smell that his ear was not okay. Does anyone know what would cause the gagging and the ear discomfort?

The only thing I can think of is that the grass awn of foxtail and some other grasses (not sure if cheat grass is one) can drill into and embed under the skin. If that heals over there is no smell, but the grass awn could be festering and causing swelling that can't be seen above the skin? This is a wild guess, mind you, but a possibility.

Question is, after the ear wash yesterday is he better this morning? If he is still gagging, it could be there is a new grass awn stuck in his throat? I know with all the dry grasses here when I throw the ball, Asha grabs lots of grass with it. She has gagged and coughed a few times because of the grass pieces in her mouth, but it never has lasted but a few minutes.

 

[Two Dobes]

I want to reassure you that your reaction to the vet's office after such a tramatic experience isn't that off. I had to stop going to one years ago, after our first experience with DCM. Our boy had dropped dead in our kitchen, and we thought our neighbors at the time poisoned him. We brought him wrapped in a quilt into the vet's office once they opened, and it was awful. Just walking in there, with our boy in the blanket. They did a necropcy and that was the day we learned all about DCM. When I brought our other dobe in there a few weeks later for a routine visit; I fell to pieces as I walked in. I was no longer able to even drive by that place without losing it. I felt bad because I loved my vet there, but had to change vets due to my emotional state.
Now I am more calloused I suppose?.... after 27 years of being in dobes, and having had more dobermans....that had new problems.....it's just very difficult when you are a newer owner.

 

[JanS]

Sort of related but Elroy still has a stitch embedded in his ear from the crop and that ear does not stand straight up, except when Olive is in heat. LOL
If you look at my avatar photo you can see it's not bad but....

I never know if I am being paranoid or if my gut instinct is correct.

Things like that can really stick with a person whether we realize it or not. Our vets receptionists have to put you on hold quite often when they're so darn busy but the hold tone was just horrible when we lost both Albert and Phoebe so it instantly stirs those sad memories every time I get put on hold there. They had finally changed it to regular music the other day when I called and I told her I was very thankful they finally changed it. She agreed and said she doesn't even know where that horrible tone came from.

 

[Ddski5]

I battled ear mites with Ragnar but I am sure the vet would have identified this.

Do y’all have ticks?

Did the vet scope the ear to the eardrum?

There is something def still going on if he is still gagging and favoring the eat.

Time for a better vet?.?.

 

[BG1]

A second vet opinion may help. Trust your gut.

Ear shaking and an off smell that persists is worth another visit.

Sorry to hear about your anxiety- its normal, these are like our kids so of course you worry.

Vets are human and can mistakes like everyone else. Just like in your own health care its good to be your own dogs advocate. Thats the lesson of COVID.

 

[StateOfMine]

I was trying to wait to reply because for a few days everything looked fine. I came home from work just now and discovered a small amount of vomit under his cot. It was just bile. No dog food. Unless he ate it.

I'm freaked out. I'd be panicking if Flint wasn't 100% normal otherwise. I do notice he keeps scratching the middle of his throat but if there was something in there, wouldn't the scratching make him gag?

I'm in such a tight financial spot right now too. The only insurance I have on Flint is accident, which covers ingesting weird stuff and cheat grass removal, but the vet obviously has to find evidence of that. I'm stressed out. But this has officially been going on for a week.

 

[Ddski5]

Just a thought:
What time did you come home?
What time do you normally feed him?
How old is Flint now?

@Ravenbird
@Kaiser2016
What’s the name of that “thing” that happens in some young/middle aged in which they are hungry and anticipate being fed at a certain time everyday- that they actually vomit up bile in anticipation of being fed? Freyja hasn’t done this in a while, Rag use to do it all the time and I would need to switch up feed times for 15-30 mins in or to break the pattern.

I know this doesn’t explain or help with the ear issue though…be me with no funds or vet? I would flush his ear myself.

 

[Ravenbird]

What’s the name of that “thing” that happens in some young/middle aged in which they are hungry and anticipate being fed at a certain time everyday- that they actually vomit up bile in anticipation of being fed?

Can't recall what we called it, but it seemed like a thing, mostly with puppies up to a year or so, caused by angst of being hungry. Mine did it a very few times about 2 in the morning in the months after going from 3 meals a day to 2 meals/day. I fed at 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. but I trained with food on and off all day, so we figured it was that long stretch of no food causing middle of night bile puking.

I'd be panicking if Flint wasn't 100% normal otherwise.

That he's 100% normal otherwise suggests it's not obstruction or an emergency.

If you still think it's related to the ear you could do as suggested and flush the ear out yourself. Before doing that you might get a flashlight and look into both ears, prodding edges with a q-tip to see if there is any sensitivity or swelling. When you look at BOTH ears it's easier to identify some lump or bump that isn't the same as the normal side. If flushing and cleaning the ear produces gagging, there very well could be a connection of something in his ear. I've never seen a dog gag because of deep cleaning ears. This might also eliminate that the ear is the trouble and move on to other possibilities.

Have you checked his neck thoroughly? Feel every inch of skin under the hair for a tiny scab or bump, especially where the collar would be when he's outside. Asha has gotten tiny cactus embedded in her skin that I only notice when petting her and my fingers come across the bump.

 

[StateOfMine]

Just a thought:
What time did you come home?
What time do you normally feed him?
How old is Flint now?

@Ravenbird
@Kaiser2016
What’s the name of that “thing” that happens in some young/middle aged in which they are hungry and anticipate being fed at a certain time everyday- that they actually vomit up bile in anticipation of being fed? Freyja hasn’t done this in a while, Rag use to do it all the time and I would need to switch up feed times for 15-30 mins in or to break the pattern.

I know this doesn’t explain or help with the ear issue though…be me with no funds or vet? I would flush his ear myself.

If i didn't have a job or a husband that was half way reliable, Flint would eat between 9 and 10am and 9 and 10pm. I feed him breakfast consistently. My husband has nights that he stays out too late or has pool league. So sometimes Flint gets fed at midnight.

Flint has thrown up before like that though and I figured that had something to do with it. It just hasn't happened in so long I forgot about it.

Also the first time he did it recently was after eating then drinking a bunch of water. He vomited only a tiny amount of dog food and water. I assumed at the time he just had one of those nasty burps that bring up a little of what you last ate. He only threw up a whole meal once. Now we're back to bile spots.

I'll keep an eye on feeding times, consider delays, and see if there is a coordination. Flint will be 2 July 2nd. He flicks his head on occasion but not as much as before his ear was flushed. I'll continue to monitor that too.

 

[StateOfMine]

Can't recall what we called it, but it seemed like a thing, mostly with puppies up to a year or so, caused by angst of being hungry. Mine did it a very few times about 2 in the morning in the months after going from 3 meals a day to 2 meals/day. I fed at 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. but I trained with food on and off all day, so we figured it was that long stretch of no food causing middle of night bile puking.


That he's 100% normal otherwise suggests it's not obstruction or an emergency.

If you still think it's related to the ear you could do as suggested and flush the ear out yourself. Before doing that you might get a flashlight and look into both ears, prodding edges with a q-tip to see if there is any sensitivity or swelling. When you look at BOTH ears it's easier to identify some lump or bump that isn't the same as the normal side. If flushing and cleaning the ear produces gagging, there very well could be a connection of something in his ear. I've never seen a dog gag because of deep cleaning ears. This might also eliminate that the ear is the trouble and move on to other possibilities.

Have you checked his neck thoroughly? Feel every inch of skin under the hair for a tiny scab or bump, especially where the collar would be when he's outside. Asha has gotten tiny cactus embedded in her skin that I only notice when petting her and my fingers come across the bump.

I'll try poking his ear tomorrow night when I have my husband to help keep him still. We do both pet him regularly and I haven't noticed anything weird where he scratches.

 

[Ddski5]

I believe the bile spots are “hunger pukes”…
Freyja does it sometimes, Rag used to do it often. They would also sometimes vomit up food just eaten from a nasty burp.

Per Google:
When a dog throws up bile, especially in the morning, it's often because their stomach is empty and the bile, which is normally stored in the gallbladder and released into the small intestine to aid digestion, backs up into the stomach, causing nausea and vomiting. This is sometimes called "bilious vomiting syndrome" or "hunger pukes".

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Empty Stomach:
  When a dog's stomach is empty for an extended period, bile can irritate the stomach lining, leading to vomiting.
  

Ahhh….the pool league days, wow the memories. I was usually a 6 but tried like hell to be a 4. Haha.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Did the vet scope the ear to the eardrum?

I'd ask about this too.

@Ddski5 has it right. I called them bile pukes, but it's the same thing. The acid in the stomach is so strong, if they don't get food, they need to throw it up to get relief. Changing up the feeding times and frequency can help.

Re the ear, Kaiser had an ear infection and a small lump in his ear. Both issues caused him to shake his head. If you have a baby wipe, that should help you determine a couple things. Put it around one finger and insert that finger into his ear. Go deep, but slow. Give it a clean. If it's just dirty, you'll know that the waxy build up was bothering him (you say there was no smell), if it's smelly then it's an infection for which you do need to see a vet. If you find any blood (including dried up dark blood, so look carefully), then he might have the same type of bump that Kaiser had. I wrote about it here: Sebaceous adenoma, other lumps and bumps Examine both ears to compare.

Re the cough, the first time I heard Kaiser cough was 2 years ago when he caught a cold. My hb thought he had something stuck in his throat. That day he had been home alone so we became suspicious that he swallowed something because he looked like he was trying to expel something - he would even hang his head to cough as if he knew that would help. Another sign was he had bad breath. I figured he swallowed something made of fabric and the fabic was rotting hence the smell. They scoped his throat, nothing stuck there. Turns out he just had a cold which didn't even need meds. The bad breath was from being sick. The next day his nose started to run and his eyes were goopy. This lasted almost 2 weeks during which we did have a recheck to make sure he was ok. That said, a cough in a Doberman is always to be taken seriously - can be a sign of DCM, and now, learning the hard way, we know it can also be lung cancer. Very unlikely that young Flint has either of these, but making you aware.

 

[Kswoodssue]

I agree with above. I have always flushed ears at home if head shaking or excess scratching starts. If keeping food and fluids down and poop is normal, would not worry overly unless vomiting is excessive. I suggest making sure that water is available through the day if he is going that long without eating. Just a thought (and most likely not related), but can’t help but wonder if bird flu is having any effect on our pups. It is a pretty tenacious virus.