Thanks for the reply. Sometimes other beginners are awesome inspiration for me. You see the IGP3 folks doing the thing and making it look easy, it's great to get to converse with someone on the same level and wavelength. Nope, not gonna give up. I did go do some work at a really great club with a guest helper (7 hour drive) and I'd go again & again if I could, but it's too much $ and too much time. I posted some pictures on another thread here. The Sat/Sun work is reasonable $ , but I have to leave on Fri and get home on Mon and spend 3 motel nights, making it way over my budget to do every month. Like you, not knocking the people at the club closer by, just instantly could see the difference when someone has handled and caught thousands of dogs and open to all breeds. I will keep on keepin' on!