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Dhpp 5 way vaccinations

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I had a question regarding vaccinations. My male who is now 2.5 had his regular round of puppy vaccinations and then had a dhpp or the 5 way a year ago my vet just sent me a reminder that he’s do again. But I have read that once your dog has been established that yearly vaccinations should be done every 2-3 years. Due to studies of over vaccination.
 
There are lots of posts on vaccinations in the Health section. Just scan through the posts. Yes I posted them. LOL!

Just by telling us your Vet is sending out this reminder to me they are an OVER Vaccinator! And doing these 5, 6, 7, 8, 9way Combo Wombo vaccines yearly is playing Russian Roulette!
We never get any 5-9way Combo Wombo Vaccines. All we get for our last 2 dogs were Parvo/Distemper vaccines. Then of course eventually a 3yr Rabies.

One important note! Never have a Rabies Vaccine given at the same time with any other vaccine! Wait about a month or longer between them.

I'm sure he does not need the Puppy Core (Parvo, Distemper and Adeno) vaccines any more. When they change protocols to every 3yrs. These are for the Core Vaccines. Adeno has not been around for probably 20 or more yrs.
Now Non-Core vaccines would be like Lyme, Lepto, Kennel Cough, Flu we don't get. These are considered Non-Core. These need to be given yearly because these are caused more by bacteria and not a virus. If your not in an area where these are

The best way to test for the cores like Parvo and Distemper is to have a blood Titer done. Now this is where some vets will charge way over $100 which is a lot of BULL :censored::poop:. There are much cheaper ways of Titering. Look up Holistic Vet. Our Holistic Vet charges us $56 including shipping for a Parvo/Distemper Titer. She set up a direct account with Kansas State.
You can search for one on this site.
American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association – The ...
American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association – The Leader, the Voice, the Resource for integrative holistic veterinary medicine
The American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association (AHVMA) is a group of member veterinarians and allies who are elevating the veterinary profession through innovation, education, and advocacy of integrative medicine.


Other places to get a cheap Titer done.
Also has lots of great info on doing minimum vaccines Dr. Jean Dodds W. Jean Dodds, DVM, Blog

Also Vet School in Wisconsin-Madison
Titer Testing Service | CAVIDS Titer Testing - vetmed.wisc.edu
https://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/lab/cavids/titer-testing-service
ABOUT THE SCHOOL; GIVING; CAVIDS Titer Testing Titer Testing Service. ... Dog Breeders; Pet Owners; Animal Shelters; ... See “Titer Testing Details” tab for information on fee changes coming in January 2020. Home; Titer Testing Service; Specific Information for international clients; Titer …


Dr. John Robb Protect the pets
Protect the Pets!
www.protectthepets.com
CONTRIBUTE TO HELP DR. ROBB BUILD PROTECT THE PET HOSPITALS. ... To amend the Rabies law. Order a Titer From Dr. Robb. Donate to Dr. Robb's Defense. The Science. Videos. ... ©2006-2018 Protect The Pets | Contact the Webmaster. Home About Dr. Robb Educate & Participate ...

  • Order a Titer
    Dr. Robb will do the titer following these steps: 1. Kansas State requests 2cc's of serum for …

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  • FAQ
    No. Rabies is a deadly disease and we must protect citizens and pets by vaccination. …
 
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I’ll take a browse through them and see what I find thank you !
 
I had a question regarding vaccinations. My male who is now 2.5 had his regular round of puppy vaccinations and then had a dhpp or the 5 way a year ago my vet just sent me a reminder that he’s do again. But I have read that once your dog has been established that yearly vaccinations should be done every 2-3 years. Due to studies of over vaccination.
The 5 way vaccination made my last doberman sick, so we switched to the 4 way. But all of his shots were finished by 1 year of age. The only shots our dogs get after there first round of shots are a 3 years rabbis shot, only because it is required where we live. No other vaccinations after the first round.
 
The 5 way vaccination made my last doberman sick, so we switched to the 4 way. But all of his shots were finished by 1 year of age. The only shots our dogs get after there first round of shots are a 3 years rabbis shot, only because it is required where we live. No other vaccinations after the first round.
So if they got the full puppy schedule they don’t need the so called booster shot once a year after that?
 
No way to know without titering. I just do the puppy shots and then just draw blood for a titer.
Is this something you can do on your own ? Or does it require a little training and know how ?
 
Is this something you can do on your own ? Or does it require a little training and know how ?

A blood draw needs to be done at the vets office. They will need to spin the blood down to get a certain amount of serum from the blood. Then it gets sent to a lab.

If in doubt about protective antibodies for Parvo/Distemper then have a Titer done. But never just automatically re-vaccinate.

Core vaccine protection for Parvo/Distemper can last 5-7yrs and up tp the life of the pet! This is proven research.
 
A blood draw needs to be done at the vets office. They will need to spin the blood down to get a certain amount of serum from the blood. Then it gets sent to a lab.

If in doubt about protective antibodies for Parvo/Distemper then have a Titer done. But never just automatically re-vaccinate.

Core vaccine protection for Parvo/Distemper can last 5-7yrs and up tp the life of the pet! This is proven research.
Alright well I know where I’m going from here with vaccines. I will be trying to get a blood draw done. I’m not real worried about my dogs and Parvo but don’t want to just vaccinate to vaccinate cause it pretty obvious that what used to be thought is no longer correct.
 
I just saw this today in one of my emails from a Holistic Vet Dr. Khalsa


Dr. Jean Dodds reviews and interprets new AVMA guidelines for vaccinations.
mail

I would like to thank Dr. Jean Dodds for this. I have left out certain sections as the original is rather long. Additionally, I have yellowed out some of the most important parts of her newsletter. As a note. Dr. Ronald Schultz says that one titer testing, no matter what the level of the test (any positive titer test) indicates protection for life in the case of Parvo and Distemper. You do not have to keep doing these expensive blood tests. www.hemopet.org can do these tests directly for the pet owner.

AAHA Vaccination Guidelines 2017 for Dogs W. Jean Dodds

AAHA recently released its latest vaccination guidelines for dogs. The association’s primary vaccination protocol has been slightly changed since the last revision in 2011. These updates, while not readily apparent, are still significant. Before we delve into those changes, let’s review the core vaccination protocol compared to the one I recommend. [Note: Rabies vaccines and vaccinations are regulated by law. So, it is not in the comparison.]

AAHA’s Core Vaccination Protocol Core Vaccines

• Canine Distemper Virus
• Parvovirus
• Adenovirus-2
• OPTIONAL Parainfluenza Virus

Vaccine Timing of AVMA (of AVMA- note Dr. Dodds protocol below highlighted in yellow)( I recommend Dr. Dodds and not the AVMA per say. No puppy should get a vaccine at 6 weeks of age)

• Beginning as early as 6 weeks of age, administer sequential doses of a combination vaccine at an interval of 2 to 4 weeks until at least 16 weeks of age.

Dogs residing in a HIGH-RISK environment may benefit from receiving a final dose at 18 to 20 weeks of age.

• Administer a single dose of a combination vaccine within 1 year following the last dose in the Initial Vaccination series.

• Administer subsequent boosters at intervals of 3 years or longer.

• Measuring antibody levels (quantitative or qualitative) provides a reasonable assessment of protective immunity against CDV, CPV, and CAV2.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________

Core Vaccination Protocol of Dr. Jean Dodds

I Recommend ( this is from Dr. Dodds)
  • 9 - 10 weeks of age • Distemper • Parvovirus
  • 14 – 15 weeks of age • Distemper • Parvovirus
  • 18 weeks of age • Parvovirus only

Note :New research states that last puppy parvovirus vaccine should be at 18 weeks old.

1 year after last vaccination (optional booster) • Distemper • Parvovirus
If the client decides not to give this optional booster, run a serum antibody titer instead. If the client intends to just retest serum antibody titers in another three years, this optional booster at puberty is wise to give for more assured protection.

Perform vaccine antibody titers for distemper and parvovirus every three years thereafter, or more often, if desired.

Comparison of Core Vaccination Protocols Titers

The most significant change AAHA has made is on its position on antibody titer testing. Bear in mind that it is not a recommendation or an endorsement of titer testing in lieu of the three-year vaccination series of distemper, parvovirus and adenovirus. If this were the case, titers would be listed on AAHA’s official protocol. However, it is an admission by AAHA that titer tests are alternatives to vaccination. The proof is on the website. In-depth diagnostic web pages are provided to veterinarians. Additionally, the pet caregiver section mentions the titer test alternative on the main vaccination guidelines webpage: Titers, or quantitative antibody testing, can help determine your dog’s protection from some diseases. Titer testing can be useful when a dog’s vaccination history for distemper, adenovirus, and parvovirus is unknown—a positive result typically means he is considered protected. However, no test is 100% accurate, so in areas where these diseases run rampant, your veterinarian may still recommend vaccinating. While titer testing for rabies is available, the law still requires that the dog be vaccinated since this is a fatal, zoonotic (i.e., can be spread to people) disease. This is definitely wonderful news and a positive step forward.

Timing

As you probably noticed, the vaccination protocol I recommend is more specifically scheduled compared to that of the AAHA guidelines. In my opinion, the AAHA guideline needs to tighten up its protocol timeline so our companion dogs can avoid adverse vaccine reactions and not risk the possibility of contracting parvovirus and distemper. It is universally accepted that maternally derived antibodies are transferred to puppies when they receive colostrum milk from their dam only in the first 36 hours of life. After that, even though the breast milk contains many antibodies as well as wholesome nutrients, these antibodies can no longer cross the neonatal intestinal mucosal lining. The colostrum–derived antibodies gradually wane from birth over the next three months and most are gone by the age of 14-16 weeks. Until then, what remains in their bodies are called “residual maternal antibodies”, which are present in decreasing amounts to help protect the pup against foreign substances and infectious diseases. Vaccinating these youngsters at too young of an age – when they have plenty of residual maternal immunity – just causes the vaccine antigen(s) to be partially neutralized so that full immunization is not achieved. Thus, the effect of vaccination is incomplete and the puppies are still at risk of getting one or more of these diseases, until the vaccine series is completed once the maternal antibodies have disappeared.

This is why the vaccination protocol I recommend starts at 9 weeks of age – the age when maternally derived antibodies start to wane.

Both AAHA and I agree that vaccinations for canine distemper should never be given to pups at or less than 6 weeks of age as they can cause post-vaccinal encephalitis (PVE) that resembles natural distemper.

At the current time, I do not recommend routinely giving the adenovirus (CAV-2) vaccination for either infectious canine hepatitis (ICH) or kennel cough. In the United States, there has only been one documented and isolated domesticated dog ICH incident in the past fifteen years. If and when a true outbreak does happen, my vaccination protocol can be revised appropriately to include CAV-2 vaccination to cover ICH for a specific region.

Parainfluenza is simply a member of the kennel cough complex. By itself, canine parainfluenza produces mild to moderate upper respiratory disease or no discernable clinical disease. When parainfluenza virus is combined with a bacterium such as Bordetella and several other potential viral pathogens, kennel cough could result. So, the attempt to pin down canine parainfluenza to specific respiratory lesions is difficult within the kennel cough complex. The current oral or intranasal Bordetella vaccines also cross protect against the other organisms in the kennel cough complex, including the CAV-2, discussed above. Plus, the vaccine needs to be reevaluated and be subjected to new clinical trials. The last one was conducted in the early 2000’s. Notable Guidelines Mixing Vaccines According to AAHA’s website regarding mixing vaccines:

Almost all vaccine vials or sprays contain additional and necessary ingredients to make sure the vaccine “takes” in the body. For example, adjuvants are present in all inactivated killed product vaccines. These are substances that are added to vaccines to enhance the body’s immune response to the vaccine antigen(s). As stated above, the intranasal and oral Bordetella vaccines induce the body to secrete alpha-interferon, an immune protein that affords cross protection against the other viruses in the kennel cough complex. When you add too many vials and/or sprays together all at once, the likelihood of an adverse vaccine reaction increases. For instance, I recommend the two-way combined vaccine against distemper and parvovirus. Many clients wish to give individual, monovalent canine parvovirus and canine distemper vaccines. In this situation, they should be given in alternating fashion every 2 weeks starting with the canine parvovirus vaccine – as this disease is much more prevalent than canine distemper.

Regarding rabies vaccine, it should be spaced a minimum of 3-4 weeks apart from other vaccines, as it presents the strongest antigenic challenge to the immune system.

Overall, I applaud the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) for its transparency, website language, layout and tools that are very pet companion caregiver friendly. I particularly like the LifestyleBased Vaccine Calculator that helps pet parents determine if their pets need a lifestyle vaccination. References AAHA - The Standard of Veterinary Excellence, American Animal Hospital Association, www.aaha.org/.

Dr. Jean Dodds

mail
Sincerely,
Dr.Deva Khalsa
Email
www.doctordeva.org
 
Alright well I know where I’m going from here with vaccines. I will be trying to get a blood draw done. I’m not real worried about my dogs and Parvo but don’t want to just vaccinate to vaccinate cause it pretty obvious that what used to be thought is no longer correct.


The first thing I ask these vets who over vaccinate every year. I thought part of your Oath was to do no harm. If they say Vaccines are safe. I would then say ok give me in writing that my dog will have no reactions or trigger a disease or die from being vaccinated. I'm sure they will not.

Some reactions can be within minutes or days or even months later. Which if they are months later most vets will not make the connection to being vaccinated.

You can ask your Vet to set up a direct account with Kansas State.
What happens when Vets are charging toooooooo much for a Titer. You are also paying the middle man! By your vet setting up a direct account with Kansas State it cuts the middle man out!

Like I mentioned our Holistic Vet only charges $57 for a Parvo/Distemper Titer!
 
The first thing I ask these vets who over vaccinate every year. I thought part of your Oath was to do no harm. If they say Vaccines are safe. I would then say ok give me in writing that my dog will have no reactions or trigger a disease or die from being vaccinated. I'm sure they will not.

Some reactions can be within minutes or days or even months later. Which if they are months later most vets will not make the connection to being vaccinated.

You can ask your Vet to set up a direct account with Kansas State.
What happens when Vets are charging toooooooo much for a Titer. You are also paying the middle man! By your vet setting up a direct account with Kansas State it cuts the middle man out!

Like I mentioned our Holistic Vet only charges $57 for a Parvo/Distemper Titer!
I will definitely ask about it and see my vet is pretty cool and we are friends so it shouldn’t be an issue. I appreciate the information and advice.
 
Just for info.

Our male will be 10yrs old in Jan. 2020. The last time he received Core Parvo/Distemper vaccines was in 2010. As far as 2yrs ago he still had a positive Titer for Parvo/Distemper. Also his last rabies was back in 2012. Since we don't vaccinate anymore for Rabies either we Titer because of a life threatening disease (Occult DCM). His last Rabies Titer was in 2/2018 which he still had a positive Titer! Also we don't vaccinate anymore because of the instructions that come with the vaccines. Which states, Only Healthy Animals Should Be Vaccinated!

Also if you Titer and there is any measurable antibodies the pet is protected. Most labs come up with a number on what they say is a protective antibody. But according to Dr. Schultz. any measurable antibody they are protected.
There is also Cell Mediated Memory which they don't measure.
 
I’ll take a browse through them and see what I find thank you !
The DHPP/CVK3 as of August 2017 is now a 3 yr vaccine. No longer is it necessary to get annual vaccines (Core vaccines).
After his puppy shots are complete and a one yr rabies, then protocol is to get the adult 3yr Core vaccines with the 3yr Rabies. After that I would definitely do titer testing. Rabies are a by law vaccine however I had a titer done this year for it and keep that with me. Many people don’t get the rabies vaccine every 3 yrs but if your dog bites someone or gets loose and is picked up by animal control then you can get heavily fined and will be required to get the rabies vaccine regardless of what the titer says.

Unfortunately when we move I have to have the rabies vaccine given within a year of traveling to a foreign country. Distemper, Parvo and Lepto is required also within the year. Mine cannot do the Lepto due to getting sick from it. I will have a notarized letter from our Vet and apostilized by Dept of Ag to be able to enter the country without it.
 
The first thing I ask these vets who over vaccinate every year. I thought part of your Oath was to do no harm. If they say Vaccines are safe. I would then say ok give me in writing that my dog will have no reactions or trigger a disease or die from being vaccinated. I'm sure they will not.

Some reactions can be within minutes or days or even months later. Which if they are months later most vets will not make the connection to being vaccinated.

You can ask your Vet to set up a direct account with Kansas State.
What happens when Vets are charging toooooooo much for a Titer. You are also paying the middle man! By your vet setting up a direct account with Kansas State it cuts the middle man out!

Like I mentioned our Holistic Vet only charges $57 for a Parvo/Distemper Titer!
$57 is great! I think the last time I asked my vet about a titer it was over $200! I was very sceptical that it was that high because they were trying to sway you away from doing it. Made me mad, but it didn't change anything for me since I wasn't doing any vaccines anyway. I just wanted a base line. He's very good about not fighting me in what I want and don't want, but the cost for the titer was insane. :cus:

And the rabbies vaccine always throws me. What ever happened to the 7 year project? Didn't that prove dogs don't need it every year? Or even 3 years?? And then I heard (here on DCF) that the one year AND the three year rabies vaccine is ONE IN THE SAME! :wtf: And then I hear that many dogs have reactions to it, some for a LIFETIME. It drives me crazy!! Something is wrong here! :censored:
 
This is where pet owners need to step up and be advocates for their pets! Research and research and ask lots of questions to your vets!

No doubt the average price for a Titer is probably $150-$200 range! Its a RIP OFF!

Tell your Vet like I said. Call Kansas State and set up a direct account with them!

Yes Vets might get a kickback from vaccine companies?

And hey if your pet gets sick with an allergy or an Auto Immune disease from over vaccinating. Well your vet has a lifetime client and the pet owner has endless vet bills! What a perfect storm!

I went through this with an Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (Our Dobe developed 3 days after being vaccinated) a long time ago when yearly vaccines were the norm. This is why I'm not a big supporter of Over Vaccinating!

Yes you are correct on the Rabies Vaccines. The 1yr and 3yr are the same vaccine just labeled different.

I think there were some issues with the Rabies Challenge Fund and the 7yr study. I will have to go on their site and check.
Hey it took Dr. Schultz research to get the AAHA to change the protocols to every 3yrs for Core vaccines. Dr. Schultz's research back in the 80's verified that Core Vaccines lasted 5-7yrs and up to the life of the pet.

Also remember about 14% or more of a Vets income is from giving vaccines! You want to give up 14% of your income?
 
Also remember about 14% or more of a Vets income is from giving vaccines! You want to give up 14% of your income?
That’s one thing I can say about Doc. He is not one to over vaccinate. He doesn’t even vaccinate his own dogs. He does Titers on them and is good about educating clients on the clear advantage of doing titers.
We always do a TPR on every pet after a thorough exam and ask about any health issues the pet may have had recently before vaccinating. We have a sticker graph that we attach to the record showing exactly where the vaccine was given in the event of a reaction. if the dog has a fever, soft stool or any vomiting in the last week he will not vaccinate. This is why I work for him. He is conservative with vaccines, agrees with raw feeding and is very thorough with each exam especially listening to the heart for possible murmurs.
 
Yes Vets might get a kickback from vaccine companies?

And hey if your pet gets sick with an allergy or an Auto Immune disease from over vaccinating. Well your vet has a lifetime client and the pet owner has endless vet bills! What a perfect storm!

Also remember about 14% or more of a Vets income is from giving vaccines! You want to give up 14% of your income?

I understand all of the above! I get it. They're losing money. Coming in every year for vaccinations is probably their mainstay. Otherwise why would people come in? Only when their dog is sick? That could be years! But like you said somewhere... What happened to, Do No Harm? It's one thing maybe in the beginning when vaccinations were first thought to do harm and many didn't know it yet or didn't believe it. But if you are a vet and know the problems with it and give them anyway? How horrible is that? Just keep giving those shots when you know it's doing harm? I can't even think of doing that as an owner. But as a Vet, to be doing it every day on a helpless animal, knowing that you are doing harm? Unthinkable.

As for the income lost, I don't know what to think about that. I mean, you go into business to make money. To make a livelihood. But if you've been doing something the same way for years and finally find that it's wrong, do you keep doing it? If I was a mechanic and I kept changing out something on a car because I thought it was the right thing to do, and then I found out it wasn't, do I keep taking people's money and changing it out when I know it's wrong? Where's the moral compass here?

They could pick up business by doing titers! Offering them for a cheaper price but still making money on it! And gaining people's respect and confidence.

Yes you are correct on the Rabies Vaccines. The 1yr and 3yr are the same vaccine just labeled different.
This one really gets to me because I feel like we've been lied to for years. That doesn't sit right with me. Why do they always say you can't give the 3-year rabies vaccine until the dog is over a certain age? If they're both the same, it shouldn't matter. They're lying. :tap:
 

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