Antibiotic responsive diarrhea?

[strykerdobe]

Don't give up on the probiotics as it could take weeks or months.

Also not surprised that he also has skin issues. Because 70-80% of the immune system is located in the gut.

 

[Ravenbird]

Thanks for your update @Wonka, this is such a difficult situation. Hugs.

 

[Wonka]

Don't give up on the probiotics as it could take weeks or months.

Also not surprised that he also has skin issues. Because 70-80% of the immune system is located in the gut.

Crowley is home after surgery. We got him neutered. I freaked out over biopsy and decided to take the longer way of finding out the issue and resolution. He seems fine, wants to go outside but cries a bit.
We feel a little wronged by the vets (the neutering only bill was about $1700 because plasma for Von Willebrand type 1 disease was $1000 and a bunch of meds sent home plus he got allergic reaction to plasma so they had to give ibuprofen injection for swelling to go down). When he was cropped nothing was given to him and he was fine after surgery (his ears ended up not standing but that’s another story)

Our clinic recommended Valerie Parker, a nutritionist in Ohio, did anyone hear anything about her? We need new food/ diet suggestions as I’ve read purina pro plan changed the formula and is no good anymore ( it was my go to due to suggestions)

Also vet said 10-14 days no exercises but i found a lot of people say 7 days is enough, how was everyone’s experience with recovery?

 

[Ravenbird]

Speechless. No experience here for recovery after neuter, but hopefully someone else will help.

 

[Ddski5]

Also vet said 10-14 days no exercises but i found a lot of people say 7 days is enough, how was everyone’s experience with recovery?

Good luck with keeping a Doberman down 14 days.

I was able to do 7 days at the most, even with structured leash use.

 

[strykerdobe]

@Wonka
I think this is her at Ohio State Vet School

Valerie Parker | College of Veterinary Medicine

vet.osu.edu

Sorry to hear about the $$$$.
Hope for a quick recovery from surgery. Yes it could take 7-10 days. Then do some walking.

 

[strykerdobe]

@Wonka
Not big on feeding kibble. Look further as I mentioned before on the slightly cooked diets. Time to Think Out Of The Box.
Or contact Dr. Judy Morgan, DVM for a consultation. Sure, she would want all his vet records and test results.

Dr Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets

Dr. Judy Morgan is a nationally renowned author and veterinarian certified in acupuncture, food therapy, and chiropractic care for dogs, cats, and horses. As a sought after speaker, Dr. Morgan shares her insight here with blogs and videos.

drjudymorgan.com

I would not doubt most vets will want him to be on a prescription diet. Thats what Vet Schools teach. Or should I say the big pet food companies come in and teach.
Maybe try wet canned food instead of kibble.

 

[Wonka]

Good luck with keeping a Doberman down 14 days.

I was able to do 7 days at the most, even with structured leash use.

I take him on short potty/walks and try to entertain him at home but he wants to full on play. That’s gonna be very challenging to keep him calm for 2 weeks

 

[Wonka]

@Wonka
Not big on feeding kibble. Look further as I mentioned before on the slightly cooked diets. Time to Think Out Of The Box.
Or contact Dr. Judy Morgan, DVM for a consultation. Sure, she would want all his vet records and test results.

Dr Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets

Dr. Judy Morgan is a nationally renowned author and veterinarian certified in acupuncture, food therapy, and chiropractic care for dogs, cats, and horses. As a sought after speaker, Dr. Morgan shares her insight here with blogs and videos.

drjudymorgan.com

I would not doubt most vets will want him to be on a prescription diet. Thats what Vet Schools teach. Or should I say the big pet food companies come in and teach.
Maybe try wet canned food instead of kibble.

I think we will start soon with cooked diets, just want to talk to a nutritionist i guess.
I just did some quick research on foods and the ones that i had good thoughts about went out of the window.

 

[strykerdobe]

I think we will start soon with cooked diets, just want to talk to a nutritionist i guess.
I just did some quick research on foods and the ones that i had good thoughts about went out of the window.

Yes just be advised most nutritionists are not big on raw or homemade cooked diets. I can see for some good reasons. Some people just feed chicken wings. I tell them you will kill your dog. Because they are not getting all the nutrition.
Some people just don't feed a balanced diet. It doesn't have to be balanced every day. But a few times during the week.

I have had vets (some that I don't see anymore) that were totally against feeding Raw. But I just tell them Well I have been doing it for years and I haven't killed any of them yet!

Look further into the Dr. Karen Becker book I mentioned.

 

[Wonka]

Yes just be advised most nutritionists are not big on raw or homemade cooked diets. I can see for some good reasons. Some people just feed chicken wings. I tell them you will kill your dog. Because they are not getting all the nutrition.
Some people just don't feed a balanced diet. It doesn't have to be balanced every day. But a few times during the week.

I have had vets (some that I don't see anymore) that were totally against feeding Raw. But I just tell them Well I have been doing it for years and I haven't killed any of them yet!

Look further into the Dr. Karen Becker book I mentioned.

I emailed Valerie Parker and she does offer recipes raw and cooked but unfortunately the wait to see her (zoom call) is not until july this year so we will try to find out before if maybe he has sensitivity to grains or something. I was filling out a form for her and the only common thing between all foods that we tried was rice, so we will start there and then slowly will introduce to home cooked food.

Our vet is not against raw food but doesn’t recommend specifically for Crowley.

And i totally understand why they wouldn’t recommend to public. My neighbor is dealing with an issue just like that, petsitting a golden doodle for coworker that is on raw meet+ goat milk. Dog is never walked by the owner and doesn’t get any other foods EVER, no muscle, basically skin and bones, has trouble pooping and throws up a lot but the owner is convinced that everything is great with the dog.

But anyway we are in the beginning of a long journey AGAIN
I will keep you updated! Thank you for all your suggestions!

 

[strykerdobe]

That is great to hear about Valerie Parker and she offers Raw and Cooked.

Also try that Dr. Judy Morgan
Yes, please keep us updated.

 

[Wonka]

I got a HUGE update with good news!!

April 1st i sent the stool sample to animal biome.
While waiting for results we tried a couple more things (seacure, home cooked diet, half home cooked half new kibble, elm bark powder, etc) initial reaction would be good and then bad again. So by all research we stopped at merrick food plus protein powder plus small amounts of tylosin (antibiotic) because he would not get normal stool.

Apr 29th we got results back. When i say I was screaming i mean SCREAMING!!!

I opened the test results and there is a chart of all different kinds of bacteria that lives in the gut. For example bacteria name “blahblah” norm- 0.2-16.0, Crowley has 2.2, etc..

So clostridium norm 0.3-7.9 Crowleys clostridium level 67.7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called my vet immediately and made an appointment. The next day we got there, got the CORRECT antibiotic prescription and since then Crowley poops like clockwork, poops are great, color, consistency and to me personally smell like unicorns and rainbows!! After a year of struggle please allow me to enjoy my dogs good stool in a weird way lol.

The whole year he was on the wrong antibiotic that was probably destroying his gut even more, 7!! different vets, 5-6 diets, probably close to a 100 different “home remedies”, and vets “it’s not bacterial, because if it was, tylosin would work and it doesn’t so we need to do a biopsy” we got our answer.

I am happy that my boy gets to enjoy his life now, try new things and we will explore new diets after the treatment (i did request a month of antibiotics because that high of a level would not go away easily). I am also very angry that not one vet told us we can do this. On our last appointment the vet said “oh that’s very helpful, that you did that” to my question “why no one told us we could do that when we did around 15 fecal and blood tests (for bacteria too)” the answer was “this is very broken down test that we would need to send to some institution, vet clinics don’t do that”. It would be very helpful if someone would have told us that that’s a thing!!

So to you, @strykerdobe i owe it all!! I’ve searched so much on internet and never came across animal biome. Crowley is also very grateful for no explosions in the stomach anymore and all different foods he is trying and learning about! I thank you from the bottom of my heart for ending this year long nightmare for us!!


And thank you to everyone who followed and chimed in, if you know anyone with similar issues, let them know about animal biome! Maybe that will give them answers as well!

 

[CRDobe]

Such good news, finally!!!!

 

[Ravenbird]

So happy for you and your pup!!!

Please keep up with some occasional updates to let us know that it really got cured and didn't come back. I just read a little about that bacteria and seems like it stays in the soil and dogs can pick it back up? It sounds pretty nasty, but then when you google the actual name, and see how much info there is, why did the vets not steer toward that in the first place. Your frustration is legit! So, so happy for you right now though!

 

[Wonka]

So happy for you and your pup!!!

Please keep up with some occasional updates to let us know that it really got cured and didn't come back. I just read a little about that bacteria and seems like it stays in the soil and dogs can pick it back up? It sounds pretty nasty, but then when you google the actual name, and see how much info there is, why did the vets not steer toward that in the first place. Your frustration is legit! So, so happy for you right now though!

I will keep you guys updated for sure! I’ve read through so much stuff at this point and scared of everything! Although i did come across an article about clostridium a while back but i ruled it out because in that article it said that dogs can get it by eating feces and or rotten meat and i knew for a fact that it did not happen, so i kind of forgot about it.. the only thing i can think of is that the community park where we lived was not the cleanest and dogs smell grass and pick up toys, so maybe that’s how he got it.. it’s just frustrating that we did not know there are other tests that can be done..
we will purchase the test from animal biome again in a month or two to see if it actually cleared up, and we also moved so hopefully all that we are doing now will help!

Thank you so much guys for your replies and congrats!

 

[Two Dobes]

SO happy to hear great news....and you mentioned you are or have moved to the Chicago area? Dr. Karen Becker is a holistic vet (someone posted her cookbook for you) and she is in Bourbonnais IL. There are also many good specialty vets in the Chicagoland area, so you will have some resources if anything goes astray.
Best of luck to you! Please keep us updated on your beautiful boy!

 

[strykerdobe]

I got a HUGE update with good news!!

April 1st i sent the stool sample to animal biome.
While waiting for results we tried a couple more things (seacure, home cooked diet, half home cooked half new kibble, elm bark powder, etc) initial reaction would be good and then bad again. So by all research we stopped at merrick food plus protein powder plus small amounts of tylosin (antibiotic) because he would not get normal stool.

Apr 29th we got results back. When i say I was screaming i mean SCREAMING!!!

I opened the test results and there is a chart of all different kinds of bacteria that lives in the gut. For example bacteria name “blahblah” norm- 0.2-16.0, Crowley has 2.2, etc..

So clostridium norm 0.3-7.9 Crowleys clostridium level 67.7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called my vet immediately and made an appointment. The next day we got there, got the CORRECT antibiotic prescription and since then Crowley poops like clockwork, poops are great, color, consistency and to me personally smell like unicorns and rainbows!! After a year of struggle please allow me to enjoy my dogs good stool in a weird way lol.

The whole year he was on the wrong antibiotic that was probably destroying his gut even more, 7!! different vets, 5-6 diets, probably close to a 100 different “home remedies”, and vets “it’s not bacterial, because if it was, tylosin would work and it doesn’t so we need to do a biopsy” we got our answer.

I am happy that my boy gets to enjoy his life now, try new things and we will explore new diets after the treatment (i did request a month of antibiotics because that high of a level would not go away easily). I am also very angry that not one vet told us we can do this. On our last appointment the vet said “oh that’s very helpful, that you did that” to my question “why no one told us we could do that when we did around 15 fecal and blood tests (for bacteria too)” the answer was “this is very broken down test that we would need to send to some institution, vet clinics don’t do that”. It would be very helpful if someone would have told us that that’s a thing!!

So to you, @strykerdobe i owe it all!! I’ve searched so much on internet and never came across animal biome. Crowley is also very grateful for no explosions in the stomach anymore and all different foods he is trying and learning about! I thank you from the bottom of my heart for ending this year long nightmare for us!!


And thank you to everyone who followed and chimed in, if you know anyone with similar issues, let them know about animal biome! Maybe that will give them answers as well!View attachment 126001View attachment 126002

OMG that is GREAT NEWS !!
Hope thigs continue to improve! Now you taught your Vet something too.
Keep us updated.

 

[Wonka]

SO happy to hear great news....and you mentioned you are or have moved to the Chicago area? Dr. Karen Becker is a holistic vet (someone posted her cookbook for you) and she is in Bourbonnais IL. There are also many good specialty vets in the Chicagoland area, so you will have some resources if anything goes astray.
Best of luck to you! Please keep us updated on your beautiful boy!

Thank you!! Yes i hope there will be a lot more options of specialists here whom hopefully i will not needBut good to have lol

 

[Wonka]

So happy for you and your pup!!!

Please keep up with some occasional updates to let us know that it really got cured and didn't come back. I just read a little about that bacteria and seems like it stays in the soil and dogs can pick it back up? It sounds pretty nasty, but then when you google the actual name, and see how much info there is, why did the vets not steer toward that in the first place. Your frustration is legit! So, so happy for you right now though!

OMG that is GREAT NEWS !!
Hope thigs continue to improve! Now you taught your Vet something too.
Keep us updated.

SO happy to hear great news....and you mentioned you are or have moved to the Chicago area? Dr. Karen Becker is a holistic vet (someone posted her cookbook for you) and she is in Bourbonnais IL. There are also many good specialty vets in the Chicagoland area, so you will have some resources if anything goes astray.
Best of luck to you! Please keep us updated on your beautiful boy!

Hello friends! I have another update on Crowley. It’s been a while and stuff has changed, so i figured i would post on here again to share my experience and maybe help someone who might be looking for answers.

So spoiler alert our story didn’t end with the correct antibiotic prescription.. As soon as we took him off of medication he went back to diarrhea and we couldn’t keep him stable. So I’ve decided to go to the vet i used to go when i lived in Chicago previously and on the appointment we were recommended to go see the internal medicine specialist since we tried everything and more with no success in the long run.

The internal medicine specialist first of all said that it’s good that we didn’t do biopsy because it was never needed (the one that’s very intrusive), that it can be done through another “entrance” if even needed. Second, she looked at all of the paperwork we brought and said that the gut bacteria reports are fairly new thing and not everyone fully understands what exactly that means so do not put all your money on it, but based on his whole history she settled with dysbiosis diagnosis. She said he can never be cured fully, the best case scenario is for him to have diarrhea episodes but manage to stop them on his own with no medications involved and suggested we do fecal transplant twice. She explained that it doesn’t always work if you do it one time.

So we set an appointment for fecal transplant and got it done in either end of july/beginning of august. It was bad. Diarrhea didn’t stop for almost 2 weeks just in time for his second appointment in late august. After that he still had diarrhea but!!! He was able to come back to “normal” within days.

As of right now he has been medication free since 2 weeks before the first procedure so 7 months. He is very regular, he holds his weight and then some lol even if his tummy doesn’t feel well it last maximum half a day.

His diet is merrick lamb and brown rice/open farm lamb (we mix 2 foods because I’ve heard great things about open farm and saw merrick put on a list associated with dcm, but too scared to switch his food fully) and baked sweet potato every morning added to the meal.

Treats- he gets bully sticks, duck feet (dried raw), honest kitchen treats and beef liver treats regularly, and on occasion he gets carrots, dog bone broth, goats milk, green beans, different berries and in general id give him a piece of whatever is safe for dogs in small quantities and see how he reacts. So far no bad reactions (only to eaten toys that he throws up but that’s irrelevant). I also started supplementing taurine for heart health and continued supplementing beta glucan for overall immunity.

If you have any questions or suggestions, always welcome!
Here are some pictures of my chubby boy