Basic training, so many ways. I have questions and need some advice please.

Hello. Charlie is 6 months old and 1/2 American and 1/2 European Doberman.
She’s lovely and waaaay too smart!
Basic training in the home.
Sit-
Drop it-
Off-some improvement for sure
Leash walking-not without harm to her humans!
She started training in a group setting. My husband took her. The instructor had hubby put on a prong collar.
Well apparently Charlie did amazing. (I was unable to attend the first session.
Honestly, I’m not a hate monger on the prong collar but I’m also not an advocate.
My husband was shocked at how well Charlie did with it. All of the larger dogs in the training session were using prong collars.
I’d sure like more experienced handlers to chime in. We’ve had many Dobermans but only 1 (Mr. Growly) who we raised up.
All the others were old Dobermans who we took in to spend their end of life time being spoiled and loved .
Puppyhood is harder than toddlerhood LOL and I’ve done a LOT of toddlers!
Anyway. Any thoughts?

I think prong collars are a great tool when used correctly. Usually 6 months is the earliest you should start using them and when used properly, the dog will correct itself instead of the constant pressure you get on the trachea with other collars. They normally learn pretty good leash manners in time and you won't need the prong anymore.

I second prongs. Some dogs don't need them--my last male needed neither a prong nor an e-collar, and he walked perfectly on a loose leash, learned to heel very well and we competed in obedience. My current male (as well as my last female) needs both a prong and an e-collar. We also compete in obedience, but he is much more confident and independent than the last male and so asks "why?!" a lot more. Both the prong and e-collar are great tools when they are used correctly and when needed.

Sounds like you both are doing a great job w/ your girl!

The situation with prong collars is kind of a paradox. They're so misunderstood that I think some countries have banned them; yet take a stroll around a farmers' market and so many nice young couples have their Goldens and Doodles in prongs.

I think the prong is a fine tool. We use one on our 77 lb. mixed breed puppy, and it makes him a lot easier for my wife to walk. I have never used one on one of my Dobes, but that's because I always felt like using one would be admitting to the world that I have a problem. They do make prong collars that are covered by leather or fabric for a more concealed look.

I was just reminding my wife this evening that some of the members here use prong collars that are of the more narrow width but are long enough to fit. It brings more effectiveness that way. We have one for the pup that is pretty narrow and it barely fits around his neck anymore. I definitely has more effectiveness on him than the large width one we also have.

On the heel training, I have had great success using The Koehler Method.

By the way, Mr. Growly – too funny. Thank you for giving several Dobes a good life!

Thanks everyone! I so appreciate your time and input on Charlie girls training
Any chance you guys might have a picture of the collars you use?
After his first 1 hour training he was in “hook, line and sinker” for the prong collar.
Where does an E-collar come in?
It’s the shock collar?
I’m so glad to be able to come here with questions, some are likely dumb but I’d rather put a dumb question out there and learn than stay in the dark!
Thank you all again!
Corky

Corky said:

Thanks everyone! I so appreciate your time and input on Charlie girls training
Any chance you guys might have a picture of the collars you use?
After his first 1 hour training he was in “hook, line and sinker” for the prong collar.
Where does an E-collar come in?
It’s the shock collar?
I’m so glad to be able to come here with questions, some are likely dumb but I’d rather put a dumb question out there and learn than stay in the dark!
Thank you all again!
Corky

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I believe the quality brand of prong collar is called Herm Sprenger.

Yes, an e-collar is a shock collar (although the term also applies to the Elizabethan collar, which is that big cone worn around the neck to keep dogs from licking/biting at wounds as they heal). Electronic collars also have a tone setting (just a beep) and a vibration setting. You always try to use the minimum amount of shock to do the job. The beauty of it is it allows you to "reach" the dog at a distance. You use the collar to enforce rules and commands the dog has demonstrated that they understand and can follow. I tell ya', I've started saying that whoever invented the e-collar deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. Very often, a dog's entire attitude changes for the better when the e-collar is put on. In fact, with my current dog, I discovered that at the dinner table when he would be getting in our spaces and sniffing at our food, I would say to my family that I was about to go get the e-collar and lo and behold the dog understood my words and would move away from the table and settle down!

What is the recommended age to possibly introduce an e-collar, folks? 6 months? 9 months? Older? I admit I started using it with the puppy at probably 5 months or so! You'e just got to be fair and smart about things.

I had a very strong independent puppy, and a prong collar changed everything. Not because of pain, they just kinda go, "oh, ok, I won't pull on this", and unless you have an extremely reactive dog that does, you can basically just move on with all obedience training with it on. Some dogs get to a point where they don't need it at all, some dogs will always be safer in public with it on. I have trialed my dog in different venues, prong collars are not allowed at all, and she does fine. But if I take her into public, tractor supply and such, I always use a prong because no matter how much obedience she can do, she can still pull like a freight train.

As mentioned, Herm Sprenger is the brand of choice, a little more expensive, but well worth the quality. Also the prongs go opposite directions from the middle out, rather than all going the same way. This addresses proper pressure. Many of the cheap collars the prongs are not rounded off, which leaves them unnecessarily sharp. I added a heavy duty snap to mine so I can slip it over the head instead of squeezing the prongs on to fasten it. They make them with snaps now. Also agree, the skinny ones are best for refined obedience training and the heavier ones for general walks and control for pulling. Since you have a trainer, I'm sure they can guide you to the right fit for your dog, best fit is higher up on the neck, never hanging low.

Corky said:

Where does an E-collar come in?
It’s the shock collar?

Click to expand...

Again, many dogs never need this and you need to learn how to use it from an experienced teacher. One rule of thumb is never use before your puppy knows the word "no". The most common reason to using it is to reinforce your rules, the most important rule in your dogs life is an impeccable recall and the e-collar is a perfect tool for that since recalls are usually done at distance where you can't correct the dog without one. Plus other things like chasing the cat or counter surfing or explosive barking from the back seat of the car. Paired with "no", it is usually pretty quick learning, but again, all depends on the hardness & determination of the dog. E collars can also be used at very low stems to train formal obedience but unless you are looking to compete at high levels that's probably not worth mentioning.

The E-collar quality is MOST important, do NOT get a cheap one with 4 or 10 settings. You must get one that has at least 100 settings on it, such as Dogtra or the Educator. Reason being is that on a cheap model with few settings, you might find #4 means nothing to your dog but you bump it up to #5 and it fries them. Fastest way ever to mess up your dog.

Use the search button up above to find several good discussions about e-collars!

I take Brio on an off-leash run daily, as I live in a setting where that's easily done. He is very high-energy and needs the daily run. He wears a Dogtra--I like it, but it's on the bulky side. I do a lot of recalls w/ the vibrate setting and he responds very well to that. I only use the stim (ie, "shock") if he decides that he has to chase something and won't listen to either a vocal command or the vibrate. I try to head that off if I see a deer or whatever before he does; then I put him on the leash. But with the e-collar I at least have complete control off leash. I don't do obedience work w/ it because he doesn't need it, as he responds well to positive reinforcement in that more controlled setting.