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Zinc-Responsive Dermatosis which (relatively speaking) is good news...Pemphigus "scare"

bomary

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Warning: graphic photos

Well, some of you guys thought it would be a good idea to share this experience with major skin issues...you might regret that suggestion after the length of this post. This will be lengthy AND picture-heavy. (Sorry in advance!!)
On about April 5, I noticed the tiniest of bumps on the very top of Jax's head, and assumed it was an allergy issue. The following two photos are from 4/09 and 4/10, respectively...in the first, you can't see any kind of problem, and you have to look INCREDIBLY CLOSELY to see the minuscule bumps in the second.
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Last year, he had very similar bumps, but he only ever took Benadryl, and they went away on their own. Of course, last year, he was just a pup and was not outside as much; nor was he as active as he is now.
Of course, I took him to the vet anyway. They again suggested Benadryl and to just keep an eye on things. I used Hibiclense to wash his head, and just kept an eye on it. He was running with me several times a week, playing in the lake (I regret that now), flirt pole in the yard...well...he was being a dog!!...a VERY happy one! The bumps didn't go away, but they didn't get any worse, nor did he have any other symptoms...until he did. That happened on April 18. I keep a VERY close eye on him, so that he had this mean, angry, ugly rash on his chest out of nowhere was a complete shock to me (of course about an hour after my vet closed.) He jumped up on the bed, and I saw it. It had NOT been there just hours before. I know that because I did his nails and I certainly would have noticed. IMG_2835.webp
That same night, his left eye became INCREDIBLY INFLAMED (I watched it swell before my eyes), but I'm assuming that was a bit/sting/etc. of some kind because Benadryl did cause that to go down.IMG_2868.webp
The next day we were at the vet first thing. The did a scrape...negative, but felt that we should put him on 2 weeks of Cephalexin in the event that there was a secondary infection that we were somehow missing. We also began Temeril P (it has some Prednisone in it to help with the itchiness and irritation.) At this point, they also made contact with a Veterinarian Dermatologist in the Dallas area just to share pics and keep her abreast of the situation. We completed the 2 weeks of Cephalexin with no improvement (the only effect it had was to cause diarrhea, so we also began adding Forti-Flora to his food.) At that same time we were at the vet (and beginning Cephalexin, etc.), we spoke about the fact that I had switched from the ALS formula of Victor to the Yukon (salmon based formula) about a month prior, so I began a gradual switch back over...(At this point there were so many variables that there was just nothing to point to as the obvious culprit for this mess.) I also began 2 medicated baths/week (Maleseb). While on the Cephalexin, I began to also notice that Jax's booty was looking AWFUL (I assumed because of the diarrhea...but it got worse and worse.) This was the beginning of my worry over that...IMG_2986.webpThis was on or shortly before May 9. Oddly, though so many other places looked aggravated, his booty was the only area that was obviously making him miserable...the cone (and underwear) shortly became part of his life. On May 18, we were back at the vet...ZERO improvement, and he was beginning to get hard bumps all over his back/sides (trunk?) They knew I was coming in and that I was terrified, so when we got there, my vet had already been in contact with the dermatologist again. She strongly suggested a Convenia shot (it targets many types of infection, and she thought it was our best option because he was not responding AT ALL to typical treatment. The shot is active in the system for 2 weeks. I was scared to death of it, but I obviously had no other suggestions, so we did that. I should mention here that this was also the first time that Pemphigus was mentioned as a possibility...some of the symptoms fit it perfectly, but some of them really didn't. All I could think of was Fred's boy, Mars when I heard that word, and my heart absolutely sank.
On May 23, we were back at the vet because even if the shot was targeting what it needed to be targeting, he was showing ZERO signs of improvement. These pics are from that day. First=head, 2nd=leg/chest(side), 3rd=right front shoulder (I think...), 4th=obviously booty (sorry), 5th=right elbow/lower leg, 6th=right rear ankle, 7th=back/sides.

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The decision was to "stay the course." The next day was medicated bath day, and he told me to kind of really get after those areas that were crusting up and trying to come off. He did warn me that there were clearly dead skin cells/follicles that were going to just slough off, so I was prepared to just cry silently and try to remain stoic as I did it... Well, that was my intention, until...I took Jax's cone off for his bath and he went and scratched his head on the carpet the next day (May 24). It was like if he had just a few more moments, he would have had no skin/fur/anything on his head

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I hurried to the vet because I had no clue if bathing that raw mess was a good idea. I have never been so panicked and frantic/sick with worry in my life.
They were obviously very concerned. Sent pics to the dermatologist again, but knew that the next step was biopsies (a word that scares me to death). He had already had breakfast that morning, so they were done the next day...the Thursday before Memorial Day weekend, which did not bode well for quick results...)! He had six "punch biopsies" done, and now it was just "wait, pray, and see."
It turned out that the results took far longer than my vet felt was reasonable (regardless of the holiday). I didn't have results until June 5 (10 days after the procedure), but the odd thing was...while we were waiting, he was improving! I had read (and read, and read, and read) about the Convenia shot, and knew that it was safe to give two doses, and I thought, "What if that is what is responsible for this improvement, and we are sitting here twiddling our thumbs waiting for results while watching him improve?"...Obviously, I have NO real knowledge about these things, but it just didn't seem like he would be improving if this was Pemphigus and he was not taking any meds for that...My vet and I discussed it, and he had a second Convenia shot on May 31. In the meantime, this is how he was looking...(not awesome, but CLEARLY better than before). The crusty, dry, sometimes bloody, lumps were gone. The baldness broke my heart, and fur was coming off in clumps, but you could just tell this was a VAST improvement.
PAUSE in the story...for some reason, my computer has these pics saved differently than the others, and I can't get them small enough. I'm sure you're sick of reading anyway, and my baby needs a walk...I'm not proofreading because I feel like I've been at this forever, and I'm ready to go hang out with my boy! So...sorry for any errors (and also the graphic photos.) I will finish the story, but just in the even that anyone reading this doesn't know the result of the biopsies...Jax does not have Pemphigus. He evidently has Zinc-Responsive Dermatosis...we are now supplementing Zinc for 2 weeks and going back for a re-check. If you've seen my recent posts, you know that he looks like a different dog than the poor baby depicted in these photos.
I will come back and just add another post to this to finish the story (it will be too late to just edit this), but I guess it is important info. to share...I don't know. I hate to subject anyone to those pics. This was the most worrisome time, and I am so relieved that he is looking, feeling, and just "being" so much more like my Jaxie Boy!!
 

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It IS important info to share. Every very thorough detail of it. Seriously, never feel guilty for being thorough. This could potentially help a future pup in soooo many ways. I know how terrifying it is when your baby is sick, so just remember we are ALL here for you, whenever you need us. And I'm SO SO glad that boy is not just looking but most importantly feeling better! You, my dear, are a rock star. I know you don't feel like one, but you are.

And again, seriously, don't feel guilty for how long this is! It's really not that long. It's all important info and details that could help another pup in the future. Do not ever feel guilty for that. Ever.
 
It IS important info to share. Every very thorough detail of it. Seriously, never feel guilty for being thorough. This could potentially help a future pup in soooo many ways. I know how terrifying it is when your baby is sick, so just remember we are ALL here for you, whenever you need us. And I'm SO SO glad that boy is not just looking but most importantly feeling better! You, my dear, are a rock star. I know you don't feel like one, but you are.

And again, seriously, don't feel guilty for how long this is! It's really not that long. It's all important info and details that could help another pup in the future. Do not ever feel guilty for that. Ever.

I suppose that part of my hesitation in sharing this is that it also just kind of breaks my heart all over again to see those pictures...and I am TERRIFIED of seeing him like that again in the event that this isn't something that can be solved with seasonal allergy med and Zinc supplementation. It was just gut-wrenching. There was not a day that I didn't cry (multiple times) once it got so bad until I could truly see improvement. I was so accustomed to looking at my "little" beautiful-coated boy that this was hard to stomach. I also just know that if it's not "your baby," those pics are VERY hard to look at...it's just scary and almost nauseating (not for me, of course...the nauseating part).
I canNOT say enough how much this forum kept me going through this (what seemed like forever ordeal). I can't help but still be worried, but I think we are on the road to recovery. This one place on the crease of his right nostril is the only area that still has me truly concerned.
That baby has been so cooperative and sweet through it all...coconut oil massages, medicated baths, etc...he just acts like, "Well, this is part of life now, so I might as well enjoy it." Honestly, it as come to seem that he REALLY DOES enjoy his nightly coconut oil massages.
Thank you very much for your kind words and your support and concern for my boy. It just means the world. I've had friends who, though they try to be understanding, are obviously a bit annoyed and think that I'm being a "helicopter dog Mom" because I have to arrange my schedule to make sure he gets all that he needs right now (well, for 2+ months), and this is a great place to be to talk and KNOW that won't happen!!
I'll finish the story and get the rest of the pics up tomorrow.
(Also...thanks for reading that whole damn thing...basically the "War and Peace" of posts!!) Plus, I'm not AT ALL tech-savvy, so trying to get the pics in the right places with descriptions was a challenge for my old ass!
 
I suppose that part of my hesitation in sharing this is that it also just kind of breaks my heart all over again to see those pictures...and I am TERRIFIED of seeing him like that again in the event that this isn't something that can be solved with seasonal allergy med and Zinc supplementation. It was just gut-wrenching. There was not a day that I didn't cry (multiple times) once it got so bad until I could truly see improvement. I was so accustomed to looking at my "little" beautiful-coated boy that this was hard to stomach. I also just know that if it's not "your baby," those pics are VERY hard to look at...it's just scary and almost nauseating (not for me, of course...the nauseating part).
I canNOT say enough how much this forum kept me going through this (what seemed like forever ordeal). I can't help but still be worried, but I think we are on the road to recovery. This one place on the crease of his right nostril is the only area that still has me truly concerned.
That baby has been so cooperative and sweet through it all...coconut oil massages, medicated baths, etc...he just acts like, "Well, this is part of life now, so I might as well enjoy it." Honestly, it as come to seem that he REALLY DOES enjoy his nightly coconut oil massages.
Thank you very much for your kind words and your support and concern for my boy. It just means the world. I've had friends who, though they try to be understanding, are obviously a bit annoyed and think that I'm being a "helicopter dog Mom" because I have to arrange my schedule to make sure he gets all that he needs right now (well, for 2+ months), and this is a great place to be to talk and KNOW that won't happen!!
I'll finish the story and get the rest of the pics up tomorrow.
(Also...thanks for reading that whole damn thing...basically the "War and Peace" of posts!!) Plus, I'm not AT ALL tech-savvy, so trying to get the pics in the right places with descriptions was a challenge for my old ass!

I totally get it. It took me forever to beable to detail medical issues with my first lab and then again with Stella. It was all so overwhelming at the time that I just couldn't. But at some point I realized my graphic story and pictures could potentially help another dog and that made me do it. I figured if it in anyway helped even one pup or owner, it was worth it.

And don't ever feel silly for rearranging your life for "just a dog" (Gosh I hate people who think like that). I just passed up a 4 day camping trip to stay home and monitor my idiot lab and make damn sure he didn't over exert or jump. And that was a far less serious and scary issue. But I just couldn't leave him, even with my super trustworthy dad.

And remember, you ARE a rock star for your care and dedication to that handsome boy. Many, many others would have given up. But you didn't. He's lucky to have you!
 
I totally get it. It took me forever to beable to detail medical issues with my first lab and then again with Stella. It was all so overwhelming at the time that I just couldn't. But at some point I realized my graphic story and pictures could potentially help another dog and that made me do it. I figured if it in anyway helped even one pup or owner, it was worth it.

And don't ever feel silly for rearranging your life for "just a dog" (Gosh I hate people who think like that). I just passed up a 4 day camping trip to stay home and monitor my idiot lab and make damn sure he didn't over exert or jump. And that was a far less serious and scary issue. But I just couldn't leave him, even with my super trustworthy dad.

And remember, you ARE a rock star for your care and dedication to that handsome boy. Many, many others would have given up. But you didn't. He's lucky to have you!

We are lucky to have each other, I suppose...I KNOW for a fact that I'm lucky to have him! He came into my life during a major "rough patch" that I don't know how I would have made it through without him! He takes care of me just like I do for him. I am "winging it" most of the time (fortunately with a LOT of help from you guys), but we sure seem to be a good team!!
And, yep...Screw anybody who thinks he's "just a dog"...I wish people with that mentality didn't own dogs (or any other living creature!)
Thanks again!
 
And now...the "rest of the story!"

Like I said, biopsies were May 25...second Convenia shot on May 31. These pictures are within days of the biopsies...
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In fact, I think these were on May 30 (5 days post-biopsies)...one day before 2nd Convenia shot. (Sorry things got out of order, but I couldn't make my computer cooperate.) Yes, the bald patches are not fun to look at, but...he looks a whole lot better...a WHOLE lot (nothing "new" popping up, and the places had smoothed out/dead skin came away/dead hair follicles came away, and what was left looked "healthy"). At this time, I was still doing two Maleseb baths/week...we are now down to one. While that was the case (the two baths), it was unbelievable (and heart breaking) how much fur would just come out, but the skin beneath looked AMAZING! Of course, I was/am UBER-protective of his "new" skin during this time, but I had to get some pics to document progress/improvement. I could see some shine to his coat, and in the bald spots, I could even see new hair growth already. (WHAT a relief that was!) So...6 days later we finally got biopsy results. My vet was already annoyed at the length of the wait, and now he was annoyed at the lack of detail in the report. He spoke to both the pathologist who looked at the specimens (we later found out that the wait was partly due to the fact that the dermatologist that he was conferring with had specifically asked for this pathologist, so that explained "some" of the wait) and the dermatologist. There was no sign of Pemphigus or other auto-immune issue. My vet just wanted further explanation of the "blip" on the report regarding zinc. Zinc-Responsive Dermatosis is common in Huskies (and similar breeds), but is not unheard of in Dobermans. My vet just did not have much experience with the condition, and he was disappointed that he couldn't provide more detail by simply reading the report. We started Zinc supplementation that day, and we will revisit his condition on June 25 (after 2 weeks on 50 mg.) For now, we are continuing a low dose of the Temeril P, but that is all he is taking in addition to the Zinc. I do a coconut oil massage nightly and thoroughly wipe him down (rinse if necessary) when we come in from outside. My vet will, of course, stay in contact with the dermatologist who has more experience with this. For right now...feeling VERY hopeful and relieved!
My boy yesterday evening...after the training/serious part of our walk (the part where I let him kind of lead the way and sniff whatever, etc.)...He ALWAYS goes to the front door of the school where my Mom (and his "Aunt Suzy"...a MAJOR dog lover/rescuer) work.
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He's not fully back to how he looked (but, that is of course not my main concern). He does seem to feel like like his normal, energetic, playful self, and THAT is my priority for sure! I (probably because I investigate him thoroughly ALL the time) can see improvement daily...seriously...things look better on a daily basis.
It is SO my very fervent hope and wish that this IS what we are dealing with and that we may not have to face this (at least this extremely) again. I don't want any Dobe owner to have to go through this type of scare, but it is also my hope that in the event that someone has to deal with something similar, this thread might be of some help.
YAY JAX!
Thanks again to everyone who prayed and/or sent positive thoughts our way. I'm so happy my boy appears to be on the mend!
 
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It IS important info to share. Every very thorough detail of it. Seriously, never feel guilty for being thorough. This could potentially help a future pup in soooo many ways. I know how terrifying it is when your baby is sick, so just remember we are ALL here for you, whenever you need us. And I'm SO SO glad that boy is not just looking but most importantly feeling better! You, my dear, are a rock star. I know you don't feel like one, but you are.
^^^This right here.

@bomary
Since you did mention Fred and Mars in your post, always remember.

Fred started this place because of Mars.
His intention was to educate people about this breed. To share.

You are in fact helping someone and their dog by posting this. It may be helping a dog not yet even born. The interweb ;)
I think your contributing this story honors Mars, and the intent of the forum.
 
I completely understand the hesitation in posting your story. It's like living the nightmare all over again!
Enduring an illness, especially one that is hard to get diagnosed is traumatizing. The unknown is always scary. We are all grateful you found the strength to share your story.
Now we are all thrilled that Jax is on the mend and back to living and loving life! He looks GREAT!
 
I completely understand the hesitation in posting your story. It's like living the nightmare all over again!
I agree!! And what a nightmare! Even though I've talked to you about this, I haven't seen all these pictures and omg, they break my heart! :( For him and YOU. I know you were a wreck and gosh, understandably so! I would be too!! Poor baby! But he looks awesome now! You were there for him through it all, doing everything possible for him! What a great mom you are!! You've both come a long way!

Even though I am so sorry you had to go through all of this, I think this post will be a wonderful learning tool for everyone here. You may never know how many lives you have touched and/or helped! Thank you for that!! And give that boy a big {{{HUG}}} from all of us!!
 
@bomary
Since you did mention Fred and Mars in your post, always remember.

Fred started this place because of Mars.
His intention was to educate people about this breed. To share.

You are in fact helping someone and their dog by posting this. It may be helping a dog not yet even born. The interweb ;)
I think your contributing this story honors Mars, and the intent of the forum.

^^^THIS!!!!

B- you know what's in my heart and mind on most things (probably better than my own family as we talk literally 18 times a day!) so I won't write a novel. Chronicling our journeys in hopes to help another dober- (any) parent better educate themselves is the very best gift you could give. You learned of and educated yourself about pemphigus because of what Fred endured with Mars... now someone else may identify Zinc-Responsive Dermatosis because of YOU as I hope Miesha's story will help someone dealing with Immune-Mediated Polyarthitis. The more information out there the better for all the worlds animal lovers!! :love::love:

(Talk to ya after second coffee! :D)
 
^^^This right here.

@bomary
Since you did mention Fred and Mars in your post, always remember.

Fred started this place because of Mars.
His intention was to educate people about this breed. To share.

You are in fact helping someone and their dog by posting this. It may be helping a dog not yet even born. The interweb ;)
I think your contributing this story honors Mars, and the intent of the forum.

I'm so glad you commented, Gel...the way you put that really put it in perspective...made my heart feel good!
 
Poor Jaxie is sleeping in his cone again tonight. Something got his booty irritated again, and he just CANNOT leave it alone when it is itching, etc., so I had to do it. I can't handle another horrible-looking booty like the one in the photos. Dang it. Of course, I'm scared to death that something is going on, but hopefully he just maybe got a bite or sat in something outside that didn't agree with him...though that surprises me because I am SO watchful (perhaps too much so) right now. He doesn't appear to be bothered by it. He just stands there when I say "Let's put your cone on," and lets me do it. He likes to start the night in his crate and then gets in bed with me when I go to bed. I have to help him get turned around the way he likes when he has the stupid thing on. I prefer to feel sorry for him for a day or two with the cone than let him get that area looking a mess again. It actually already looks a bit better even after one day of the cone and putting aloe on it...
 
Looking at pictures of Jaxie boy going through what he went through, it's tough, really tough. I know we've talked about his skin issues but looking at those pictures really puts it into perspective. Wow! You have been the most amazing dobermum. As heartbreaking as it was for you to see him go through the issues that he had you helped him when he needed you the most. We would all do the same for our dobes, I know, but the love and care you gave him, and still do, is just exceptional.

But wow, see him now? He is looking fantastic. Just love that boy, he's really captured my heart.
 
We are still improving on a daily basis. I took some really good pics today, but apparently I pushed a freaking button on my phone that made them in a different "format"...ugh...I hate how much of a tech idiot I am. Anyway...we are continuing the 50 mg. of zinc. I am still doing coconut oil massages nightly. (I think he's gotten to think that is just how life is...a massage every night...and I'm happy to do that!...I want that for me!!)
I am thinking I might want to add krill oil to his food sometime soon. I don't think any of the salmon (food or supplemental oil) had anything to do with this, but I am just afraid of it now...(probably not logical). I just feel like now that he is on the mend, he could use a little boost internally for his coat (and other benefits from Omega oil)...
Some of the places that were unaffected by this (there are a few...very few) look a bit dry, and I want to make sure he is getting what he needs. Also, I've read that the Omega oils are important if you are having to supplement zinc.

I wish those dang pics had not "screwed up" (or I hadn't screwed them up)...he JUST looks SO much better. He has been running a few days a week the first mile/mile & 1/2 of my run, and he is really getting back to himself. I couldn't be happier, but of course, I am cautiously optimistic...this was just SUCH a big scare, and I don't want my hopes up too high. I think we are on the right track, though.
 

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