FCI prohibited equipment (overreach?)

[Nordika]

Was not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted somewhere.

If the FCI discovers any social media posts, photos, or videos showing a competitor using prohibited training equipment, including but not limited to electronic collars, electric sticks, or pinch collars, that competitor may be disqualified from the FCI Championship.

This applies even if the equipment is legal in the competitor’s home country. Such equipment is not permitted under FCI rules.

Things are about to get very ugly...

 

[Rits]

Waiting for an official FCI post to see if this is true or social media rumor.

Huge overreach, imo but they were able to ban cropped and docked from competing, even if it is legal in the dog's country, doesn't surprise me they will push as far as they can.

Are they going to ban buggy whips, gentle leaders, harnesses, choke collars too until we are using no tools? Any of these can be used abusively and incorrectly.

 

[BGpa]

I use Grok sometimes as a search engine and found reference to FCI rules-on tools used in competition...nothing found on scanning social media, etc. That doesnt mean it does not exist: Grok has access like other AI to public facing webforms, places like reddit, websites and open comments, but doesnt have API permission at FakeBook private groups.

I could link to a couple links found at FCI inc pdf on rulebook from 2025, nothing mentions "social media scanning"

but defer to those with more experience in working dog world here in the US, or on "how things are going" in Europe oversight culture, to include dog shows and trials.

This does sound a little like conspiracy thinking, but TBH the over-reach IMHO in overly top down bureaucratized countries elsewhere is not limited to dog world.

IMHO that trend is an entirely valid concern, about both over-reach by well meaning but ignorant social activists (see Canada's updated rules on CD) and the PositiveOnlyNinnies Movement

plus, the more ominous privacy concerns-

and my guess is the political discussion is buzzing at FakeBook...which I dont use so cant confirm.

Suggests to me further discussion in
Off Topics/Political forum,
where it cant be crawled by goolagbots or AI, defer to Mods on that.

Just my $0.02 and YMMV
You can have my prong collar anytime:
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ.

 

[Nordika]

Waiting for an official FCI post to see if this is true or social media rumor.

Huge overreach, imo but they were able to ban cropped and docked from competing, even if it is legal in the dog's country, doesn't surprise me they will push as far as they can.

Are they going to ban buggy whips, gentle leaders, harnesses, choke collars too until we are using no tools? Any of these can be used abusively and incorrectly.

I considered the source credible coming from Lars Lentz while at the World Championship.

His words:
Bliver interessant , hvordan de vil "handle" det I praktik , tænk hvor nemt det er at fremstille AI foto , som "bevis"!
Effective immediately:
Team Leader meeting:
Going forward, if the FCI discovers any social media posts, photos, or videos showing a competitor using prohibited training equipment, including but not limited to electronic collars, electric sticks, or pinch collars, that competitor may be disqualified from the FCI Championship.
This applies even if the equipment is legal in the competitor’s home country. Such equipment is not permitted under FCI rules.

 

[Rits]

I considered the source credible coming from Lars Lentz while at the World Championship.

Not doubting his credibility at all. I just would like to see an official word once/if it is put into place.

 

[BGpa]

Thank you for the Lars Lentz reference. I read he and Balabanov competed in same time frame. Another highly useful resource for my dog nerd bookshelf.

The IGP Track Book — The Definitive Guide to IGP Tracking Training

The only book dedicated entirely to IGP tracking. From the coach behind multiple National Champions. Get your first 2 chapters free.

theigptrackbook.com

Slightly OT ?
@Nordika Are you thinking of doing tracking with Rollo?

 

[JanS]

Going forward, if the FCI discovers any social media posts, photos, or videos showing a competitor using prohibited training equipment, including but not limited to electronic collars, electric sticks, or pinch collars, that competitor may be disqualified from the FCI Championship.

Is this just on the showgrounds or does it apply if they see a photo of you using at home or off the showgrounds? Not that I ever plan to do FCI but I also don't want someone telling me what I can and can't do on my own time or at my own home.

 

[BGpa]

I considered the source credible coming from Lars Lentz while at the World Championship.

His words:
Bliver interessant , hvordan de vil "handle" det I praktik , tænk hvor nemt det er at fremstille AI foto , som "bevis"!
Effective immediately:
Team Leader meeting:
Going forward, if the FCI discovers any social media posts, photos, or videos showing a competitor using prohibited training equipment, including but not limited to electronic collars, electric sticks, or pinch collars, that competitor may be disqualified from the FCI Championship.
This applies even if the equipment is legal in the competitor’s home country. Such equipment is not permitted under FCI rules.

"It will be interesting to see how they handle this in practice—just think how easy it is to generate AI photos as "evidence"!"

Yes, its almost impossible to avoid AI generated rip-off original creator content on youtube, now add in Flock cameras everywhere...Meta getting sued in the EU for 'pervert glasses...'
And social media weaponized ...
Now...
dont get me started on tiktok and IG...
(cue the old guy on lawn screaming at sky, @Bernie memes)

Srsly, I suppose if one were to post ones content it would be wise to edit/change the image...if you intend to compete in FCI.

We need an app for this:
Call it "Dobe Gentle-fy"

"Add butterflies, unicorns filter;
Convert collars;
Apply safe space and crayolas background"

so the international safetyist karens and trigglypuffs can go somewhere else?

 

[BGpa]

Needs work...

 

[Nordika]

Not doubting his credibility at all. I just would like to see an official word once/if it is put into place.

It will be interesting. FCI IGP 2025 rules state: "suspected attempt of fraudulent intent by use of prohibited training aids" as grounds for disqualification for unsportsmanlike behavior."

I'd expect it would be in that line of reasoning, going well beyond the venue to include any use of prohibited equipment, anywhere, anytime? We'll have to wait and see what happens, but it would essentially eliminate the US teams.

And one has to wonder if this is IGP specific or everything under the FCI umbrella....and as we know, they've already banned cropped dogs from competing. They're just tightening the noose.

 

[Nordika]

Slightly OT ?
@Nordika Are you thinking of doing tracking with Rollo?

Not IGP style tracking, but I do tracking and trailing with my dogs, which method depends entirely on the dog. If the dog prefers tracking, i.e. nose to the ground, or trailing, i.e. airscenting and quickest path. Rollo prefers trailing, and that's great for SAR and works for me.

 

[Ravenbird]

Sarah Prelle (of Canemo / Marko IGP training) posted on this topic yesterday on her fb page. It was the first I'd heard about it. She stated that even though she rarely uses the tools in training, she does not and will not exclude them. She said they teach an e-collar online course and it's on their website, so one of the very best representatives of the USA in FCI competition will probably be banned if FCI actually follows through. Comments were also interesting - suggesting that if they can use photos of competitors using tools at home in training it will become a free-for-all to get people banned so a jealous competitors could have a better chance of winning... and another suggested that with AI you can alter most any photo or even videos nowadays, so it will just become a shouting match and pointing fingers. Some might take the e-collars off their own photos before promoting themselves, others might add e-collar to a rivals photos to try to get them banned. What a Charles Frank.

 

[Nordika]

Is this just on the showgrounds

Training equipment like ecollars and prongs have been banned from competition trials and showgrounds, including AKC for a very long time. It's not about that, but about using them in your training.

 

[Gelcoater]

Huge overreach, imo but they were able to ban cropped and docked from competing,

I don’t understand why they would do this?
C/D doesn’t have any thing to do with a dogs training or performance.

 

[BGpa]

This will simply drive more Normal people away from dog shows and trials run by the EU Socialist Ninnies, and their wannabes in the US. I understand the prongs are banned in ring, and trials, but use of Hidden Keepers is common back stage and to and from AKC events.

Whats next, no choke collars- isnt that what a show lead "snake" really is? Just saying...

This is really stupid over-reach by FCI but no surprise, more top down politics by over-weening bureaucrats - its Conquests Law od bureaucracy...I see echos of same in the SD community where the trend is subservience to ADI, a UK trade organizer, for example in attempting to exclude all breeds but the "Fab Four" and demands on "positive only training", for corporate programs and Humane Societies to use their logo.

I'm starting to understand DPCA reputed paranoia in chapter club approvals, for fear of letting in the PETA adjacent applicants and CodePink organizer drama queens.

Thisis why more people simply opt out of AKC and compete in UKC/UDC shows and trials.
And why more casual pet owners are paying to take dogs to play in sport parks that dont submit to this stupidity.

 

[Nordika]

I understand the prongs are banned in ring, and trials, but use of Hidden Keepers is common back stage and to and from AKC events.

I shouldn't have to say this, but, If you can't walk your dog on a leash and flat collar to and from events you don't have adequate control of the dog and don't belong on the premises. People need to stop using training equipment as a crutch and lifelong equipment. Aversive training equipment is meant to be used to extinguish undesirable behavior, train, proofing and be done with it. If your dog isn't reliable on a leash, find another training method because whatever you're doing isn't working.

 

[Ladydi]

You rock Nordika!
Loose leash walking to and from events is part of basic obedience training.

 

[Nordika]

I think it has begun...

Haz from Shield K9 "They suspended Gage and I from the WUSV. More to come soon. We remain unfazed..
#dogsport #igp #sportdog #fullpower"

Apparently someone pulled clips from his videos/training in use of corrections. (Banned equipment?)

 

[BGpa]

This stinks.

I have no dog in this fight, have watched Shield K9 only in curiosity, among other youtubers,
and dont care about GSDs other than it makes me sick what showline breeders have done to them...case in point, vets at Crufts last year pulled two dogs for excessive sloped back and shuffling harefoot...

Speaking for myself, as an American I really hate top down nannies messing in our private affairs, especially ones that remind me of the wonderful EUSocalism thats done so much for citizens...over there...

But, I'll save that-"wont go there" further as its Politics and OT, best addressed in the OffTopics section, Politics.

But I do recall an italian dobe breeder posting here awhile back saying iirc "a new dobe club was formed to avoid corruption at the top...in Germany".

@dobschroeder you still here?
Is this related in anyway?
Show vs working power plays?
I'm know I'm mixing up GSD with Dobes but maybe German orgs should clean up at home...first.

But hey, what do I know...another BYB knucklehead in the peanut gallery.