Help With Testy Dobie Pup

[DwayneTheDobie]

Hi all,

I’m new here and stumbled across this wonderful webpage whilst looking for advice.

I have a male chocolate Doberman puppy he’s 13 months old now and I’m having a particular issue with attention barking and I’ve tried lots of different things to correct it and he’s not responding. It seems normal training methods are not always successfull with the Dobie, he’s very smart and can seriously push his boundaries. I taught him ‘quiet’ and yes, he’ll stop but soon learnt if he barks, is quiet, he gets a treat, so it actually was counter productive, I tried leaving a loooong gap between command, to action to treat to stop that immediate connection but he’s too smart!

He’s been great with every aspect of his training, he’s obedient when out and his recall is spot on, he has all his basic commands, walks in heal etc… but… he has started barking at me and others when he wants something he knows he can’t have, for e.g. he’s not allowed on my bed and has his own bed but barks at me when I won’t allow him up, really anytime he’s told no he will either listen or he won’t, it’s a bit odd, sometimes he’ll listen right away and that’s the end of it, but more often recently he’ll just bark and he won’t stop! Getting louder abs more frustrated the more I try and stop him.

I’ve tried to correct the behaviour with:
Distraction
Eye contact until he stops
Removing him from the room until he’s calm
Leaving the room myself
Ignoring it completely (this made him so mad he nipped my toes)

I NEVER give in though and let him have what he wants, but it’s a daily challenge and it’s exhausting!

This has always been an issue but is getting worse, any tips greatly appreciated.

Just to add, he’s walked daily for anything from 1-3 hours mostly off leash running about as we are rural, I also have a doggy back pack he wears to give him a role and I add very light weights to it to make him work harder to tire g him out more, (don’t worry I mean very light I know you don’t want too much weight before 18 months old), we are on a small farm so he’s out and about doing jobs with me a lot too, I spend at least 30 minutes training in 10 minute sittings throughout the day, I also make time to play with him too, we also do training on our walks, heal, stay, recall, quick down etc… we play fetch or tug he has a toy box which he has to ask me for toys from so they’re not all over the place to keep them I retesting, I also use puzzle toys and he gets 2 chews a day, so he’s well stimulated, I learnt that very quickly with the Dobie! He also has 2 beds in the house both are huge and comfy! With his own blankets.

 

[LifeofRubie]

"Testy Dobie Pup:" is there any other kind

It may be his Dober teen phase where they do start testing you. It's been a while since I've been in the thick of things with that phase but I know some other folks have experienced it more recently and will certainly chime in!

Just wanted to say welcome and he is such a handsome boy!

 

[Ravenbird]

He sounds like a typical high drive Dobe and you are in the midst of terrible teens when they really want to push boundaries.

You can train TO DO most anything with treats & rewards, however it rarely works in teaching them NOT TO DO something. As you say, it becomes a very fine line what the reward is for & these smart dog start thinking how if they <do anything to get told "no"> they will get a treat for stopping. I suggest a very firm no with the demand barking and backtalk at this age, if he continues then he should be sent to his crate or bed and placed on a down-stay. I was very reluctant to use my crate as "punishment" when mine was a puppy, but when they are this age and know commands and understand they are pushing you, I think they understand that you have just had enough and you won't allow them to continue bad behavior.

 

[Gpcoguy]

Welcome from Colorado

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

He sounds like a typical high drive Dobe and you are in the midst of terrible teens when they really want to push boundaries.

You can train TO DO most anything with treats & rewards, however it rarely works in teaching them NOT TO DO something. As you say, it becomes a very fine line what the reward is for & these smart dog start thinking how if they <do anything to get told "no"> they will get a treat for stopping. I suggest a very firm no with the demand barking and backtalk at this age, if he continues then he should be sent to his crate or bed and placed on a down-stay. I was very reluctant to use my crate as "punishment" when mine was a puppy, but when they are this age and know commands and understand they are pushing you, I think they understand that you have just had enough and you won't allow them to continue bad behavior.

Thank you I’m hoping it’s just a phase but it's been going on for a while. We decided not to create and I’ve tried putting him on place but any attention seems to spur him on more. I give a firm no with flat hand signal then ignore him or walk away, he does stop but not right away sometimes he’ll bark at me for a good 10 minutes before he gives up. It takes the patience of a saint not to get cross and react!

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

Welcome from Colorado

Howdy!

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

"Testy Dobie Pup:" is there any other kind

It may be his Dober teen phase where they do start testing you. It's been a while since I've been in the thick of things with that phase but I know some other folks have experienced it more recently and will certainly chime in!

Just wanted to say welcome and he is such a handsome boy!

Thank you, I’ve been looking for somewhere like this for advice and support as owning a Dobie is a unique experience

 

[Rits]

He needs some kind of negative reinforcer to discourage the barking. I know they are typically looked down upon across the pond but I would either use a prong or ecollar to correct him when you say no and he doesn't stop. A time out in the crate would be the least "aggressive" way to get the point across. Definitely going through a naughty phase and you are right to fix this now.

I have personally used a mix of distraction scatter feeding when my dog sees a trigger and negative reinforcer. I throw a lot of kibble towards her when something goes by the window that I know will typically make her react. I have mostly non carpeted floors and the kibble distracts her and snaps her mind out of the hyper focus. The goal is to do this before she reacts, but in the beginning even doing it after she reacts to start the association with "trigger equals kibble" works. Eventually you either will catch it before it happens or the dog will expect kibble and the bark spells will be shorter and shorter. I then follow up with a negative reinforcement if needed to backup my command to stop barking once they begin to understand.

Have you taught him anything new lately? It's great you are giving him physical stimulation but don't stop with the mental stimulation. Teaching them new things can exhaust their brains and use up a lot of that frustration energy into something more positive and continue to build your bond.

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

He needs some kind of negative reinforcer to discourage the barking. I know they are typically looked down upon across the pond but I would either use a prong or ecollar to correct him when you say no and he doesn't stop. A time out in the crate would be the least "aggressive" way to get the point across. Definitely going through a naughty phase and you are right to fix this now.

I have personally used a mix of distraction scatter feeding when my dog sees a trigger and negative reinforcer. I throw a lot of kibble towards her when something goes by the window that I know will typically make her react. I have mostly non carpeted floors and the kibble distracts her and snaps her mind out of the hyper focus. The goal is to do this before she reacts, but in the beginning even doing it after she reacts to start the association with "trigger equals kibble" works. Eventually you either will catch it before it happens or the dog will expect kibble and the bark spells will be shorter and shorter. I then follow up with a negative reinforcement if needed to backup my command to stop barking once they begin to understand.

Have you taught him anything new lately? It's great you are giving him physical stimulation but don't stop with the mental stimulation. Teaching them new things can exhaust their brains and use up a lot of that frustration energy into something more positive and continue to build your bond.

Thank you, I’ve never wanted to use tools mainly because I want him to respond to me and not a collar and I didn’t want to be reliant on creates etc… as if we go places (I take him everywhere with me) he would struggle without them but I totally understand what you are saying. You’re right in the UK it’s all about positive reinforcement, and yes, e-collars are frowned upon, however, with a dog like the Dobie I find he sees it as a weakness sometimes… am I wrong in thinking this? What he wants is to get my attention so I was thinking ignoring him would send the message! Maybe physical removal but as soon as you get physical even moving him by his collar really sparks him off! It’s a very hard one to correct, I’ve had 2 Rotties and a Shepherd previously do kit a novice to these large guarding breeds, but I rescued them at 3 years, they came with behavioural issues but they were born from anxiety and lack of strong leadership etc… fairly easy to correct with time and patience. I’ve never had a puppy test me like this I just keep trying to be consistant and calmly assertive! I hope it’s just a phase. Can you recommend anything else? Oh I forgot we learn a new skill every day, little and big from fetching and identifying specific items for me to fun silly tricks like spin, roll over etc… so I think mentally he’s good! Maybe yes spoilt fur my attention?! Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Rits]

I want him to respond to me and not a collar and I didn’t want to be reliant on creates etc

In order to have him respond to you in public you will have to first work on this in the home and using tools will help you communicate to him what you want so that down the road, he will understand what you want when you tell him "quiet". You eventually will not need these tools but there have to be consequences for his actions.

as if we go places (I take him everywhere with me) he would struggle without them but I totally understand what you are saying.

Is he barking reactively towards things in public? Sorry if he's not then ignore the following, hah.

In public, you can totally use the scatter feeding for triggers. I use this in the car all the time where I find that is where my girl is the most reactive and I can't necessarily move away from said trigger to get below her threshold like I could on leash. I will purposely set ourselves up in a busy parking lot to work on it and have her loose in the back seat. If a person walks too close to the car, she looks and I quickly toss kibble in the backseat before she reacts. She feels the kibble hit her and hears the kibble land and it snaps her out of her focus. She spends the next minutes searching out the kibble versus reacting. I do that for a 5-10 min session until she progresses to where she sees people and expects a treat so she LOOKS at me. Perfect! You can do the same on leash but in this case you have the advantage of moving away from the trigger and giving your dog space to where he can think instead of react. You would use the same application, don't say anything, allow him to look at the trigger and then rewarding for looking at you. Sometimes adding in a little motion by walking backwards can get their attention on you. You can either feed from the hand, I would let him chase the food to burn up some of the energy or scatter kibble in the grass and burn up some mental energy on sniffing out the kibble.

Oh I forgot we learn a new skill every day, little and big from fetching and identifying specific items for me to fun silly tricks like spin, roll over etc… so I think mentally he’s good!

That is great that you are keeping his mind busy with new things! Keep at it. I do think a lot of it is naughty teen behavior. I personally ignore that demand barking they can do or put them up for 5 minutes before it turns into a game for them where it evolves into frustrated nips. The girl I'm fostering now does this but to my dog Ripley. She will annoyingly bark at her and nip at her! I would allow Ripley to correct her but it has to get to a pretty elevated level before she does and I don't want to stress Ripley out or allow Rowynn to behave like that for so long without consequences. She does wear an ecollar from time to time. In the beginning, the collar was put on before going outside, as that was where she would do this behavior. I'd tell her "leave it" and if she didn't mind she would be corrected with a half second stim. Now she doesn't wear the ecollar every time as we are fading it out. I tell her leave it, she comes to me and gets praise and maybe some play with a toy instead to redirect her pent up energy on the toy over my dog. The ecollar gets the point across very quickly and it doesn't damage them when used at the proper level. If I couldn't use one I'd probably work my butt off on recalls to call her off my dog. This method would take much much longer and I could never set her up to fail by allowing my dogs out to potty together. The ecollar is so much more effective and gets the message delivered right away.

 

[Kaiser2016]

A Doberman is perfect for farm life! Really, anything with enough space to run and patrol, I imagine that to be the ideal home for these guys. His life sounds great - at just 13 months old, he is already like a little prince in the house! I spoil my male too, but it took me the first 2 years of his life to forgive and forget

I find he sees it as a weakness sometimes… am I wrong in thinking this? What he wants is to get my attention so I was thinking ignoring him would send the message! Maybe physical removal but as soon as you get physical even moving him by his collar really sparks him off!

I do think that Dobermans can interpret certain human responses as weakness - ignoring and walking away, in particular during this very turbulent teenage stage when they are most interested in challenging the hierarchy. They behave as if YOU have to earn the right to rule THEM. You can successfully use ignoring as a tool once they are adults and more established in their position within your household (meaning, at the bottom of the pack).

To me, his reaction to his collar being grabbed would be unacceptable - it is a small step away from him using his mouth to grab your arm.

Lots of great advice above on how to get him back on track!

 

[Ddski5]

No doubt that the use of prong and ECollar would greatly help you- if used correctly.

I use both tools on my two Dobermans.

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

A Doberman is perfect for farm life! Really, anything with enough space to run and patrol, I imagine that to be the ideal home for these guys. His life sounds great - at just 13 months old, he is already like a little prince in the house! I spoil my male too, but it took me the first 2 years of his life to forgive and forget


I do think that Dobermans can interpret certain human responses as weakness - ignoring and walking away, in particular during this very turbulent teenage stage when they are most interested in challenging the hierarchy. They behave as if YOU have to earn the right to rule THEM. You can successfully use ignoring as a tool once they are adults and more established in their position within your household (meaning, at the bottom of the pack).

To me, his reaction to his collar being grabbed would be unacceptable - it is a small step away from him using his mouth to grab your arm.

Lots of great advice above on how to get him back on track!

“You have to earn the right to rule them”
never have I heard a truer statement!!
But that’s why I love this breed so much!

Don’t worry I won’t tolerate agression in any way owning these breeds means you have a social responsibility to ensure they are well behaved and gentle. He’s just a testy teen, but I’m sure I’ll get there with him and you’re very correct he is a little prince!

So many good tips and such great support, I’m so glad I found this site.
Thank you

 

[Ukesox]

Welcome from Norfolk U.K. That’s a very handsome boy you have there.
With regards rewarding “quiet” with ”treats”... You didn’t elaborate on how you approached it but for it to work it’s essential get them to bark (“speak”) in conjunction with the “quiet” command. For “speaking” the food reward is very low value whilst the “quiet” reward is a top of the range ”to die for“ food reward. Mad as it sounds this has worked for me. Also add in a visual cue for the quiet command. (I use the obvious index finger in front of my mouth). Dobies are
incredibly adept at understanding visual cues & once understood these are enough without words.
However, it sounds like to me like your pup has just got into the habit of barking to get his own way & you need to break this habit. He may grow out of it but equally he may not. I think e collars may in fact be banned in the U.K. but you can achieve the same result as Rits describes above with e collar by using water from a plant spray bottle or squeeze bottle. (Maybe fround upon by U.K. lap dog owners but definitely not illegal) When he’s barking at you someone else whose not involved needs to squirt water at him (top of head preferably) as you give a loud “no” command. A little after, praise “good, quiet” & reward. It’s worked to stop unwanted habit barking with all of my Dobes.

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

In order to have him respond to you in public you will have to first work on this in the home and using tools will help you communicate to him what you want so that down the road, he will understand what you want when you tell him "quiet". You eventually will not need these tools but there have to be consequences for his actions.


Is he barking reactively towards things in public? Sorry if he's not then ignore the following, hah.

In public, you can totally use the scatter feeding for triggers. I use this in the car all the time where I find that is where my girl is the most reactive and I can't necessarily move away from said trigger to get below her threshold like I could on leash. I will purposely set ourselves up in a busy parking lot to work on it and have her loose in the back seat. If a person walks too close to the car, she looks and I quickly toss kibble in the backseat before she reacts. She feels the kibble hit her and hears the kibble land and it snaps her out of her focus. She spends the next minutes searching out the kibble versus reacting. I do that for a 5-10 min session until she progresses to where she sees people and expects a treat so she LOOKS at me. Perfect! You can do the same on leash but in this case you have the advantage of moving away from the trigger and giving your dog space to where he can think instead of react. You would use the same application, don't say anything, allow him to look at the trigger and then rewarding for looking at you. Sometimes adding in a little motion by walking backwards can get their attention on you. You can either feed from the hand, I would let him chase the food to burn up some of the energy or scatter kibble in the grass and burn up some mental energy on sniffing out the kibble.



That is great that you are keeping his mind busy with new things! Keep at it. I do think a lot of it is naughty teen behavior. I personally ignore that demand barking they can do or put them up for 5 minutes before it turns into a game for them where it evolves into frustrated nips. The girl I'm fostering now does this but to my dog Ripley. She will annoyingly bark at her and nip at her! I would allow Ripley to correct her but it has to get to a pretty elevated level before she does and I don't want to stress Ripley out or allow Rowynn to behave like that for so long without consequences. She does wear an ecollar from time to time. In the beginning, the collar was put on before going outside, as that was where she would do this behavior. I'd tell her "leave it" and if she didn't mind she would be corrected with a half second stim. Now she doesn't wear the ecollar every time as we are fading it out. I tell her leave it, she comes to me and gets praise and maybe some play with a toy instead to redirect her pent up energy on the toy over my dog. The ecollar gets the point across very quickly and it doesn't damage them when used at the proper level. If I couldn't use one I'd probably work my butt off on recalls to call her off my dog. This method would take much much longer and I could never set her up to fail by allowing my dogs out to potty together. The ecollar is so much more effective and gets the message delivered right away.

He only really does this at home, the scatter feed idea is brilliant, I’ll be trying this, thank you

 

[DwayneTheDobie]

Welcome from Norfolk U.K. That’s a very handsome boy you have there.
With regards rewarding “quiet” with ”treats”... You didn’t elaborate on how you approached it but for it to work it’s essential get them to bark (“speak”) in conjunction with the “quiet” command. For “speaking” the food reward is very low value whilst the “quiet” reward is a top of the range ”to die for“ food reward. Mad as it sounds this has worked for me. Also add in a visual cue for the quiet command. (I use the obvious index finger in front of my mouth). Dobies are
incredibly adept at understanding visual cues & once understood these are enough without words.
However, it sounds like to me like your pup has just got into the habit of barking to get his own way & you need to break this habit. He may grow out of it but equally he may not. I think e collars may in fact be banned in the U.K. but you can achieve the same result as Rits describes above with e collar by using water from a plant spray bottle or squeeze bottle. (Maybe fround upon by U.K. lap dog owners but definitely not illegal) When he’s barking at you someone else whose not involved needs to squirt water at him (top of head preferably) as you give a loud “no” command. A little after, praise “good, quiet” & reward. It’s worked to stop unwanted habit barking with all of my Dobes.

Thank you, the quiet reward I first taught by asking him to speak ( ha can bark on command) then quiet with hand signal then treat. I can use quiet at any time to stop him barking, but it’s short lived when he’s having a barking tantrum. Ignoring him has been working over the last few days with a firm no! I like the water idea, funnily enough I raise chickens and use that technique to stop bullying or crowing in hens I never thought to use it for Dwayne too.

 

[Kswoodssue]

Welcome! Our girl is 9 1/2 months old. Our first Doberman, but lifelong dog owners. Barking “at” me is something I do not tolerate. Barking in play is one thing, but barking “at” me is manipulative and dominant behavior. The behavior can escalate. The folks above are much more experienced at training than I. No matter what type method you choose, make the correction quick and firm. Let there be no doubt in your pup’s mind what the offense was. Your pup knows that barking gets a reaction from you. I would not make that response the one your pup wants. I truly feel that their security lies in your ability to maintain order in their life.

 

[Daddiezdobez]

Howdy!

Hi how are you from essex

 

[Dasz88]

Whaaaaat?? That boy looks too innocent and handsome to ever do anything wrong, he is clearly being framed. Just kidding, my boy is 11.5 months and a nut job right now, so I'm just offering solidarity and support lol! I agree with ravenbird and the others who have said we need some kind of negative reinforcement for them at this stage. Gilly gets a collar shake when being really naughty, or I do use his playpen as a timeout sometimes. I think being deprived of the ability to stare at my face/be attached to my butt all day is his greatest punishment

 

[Luca]

Welcome from Norfolk U.K. That’s a very handsome boy you have there.
With regards rewarding “quiet” with ”treats”... You didn’t elaborate on how you approached it but for it to work it’s essential get them to bark (“speak”) in conjunction with the “quiet” command. For “speaking” the food reward is very low value whilst the “quiet” reward is a top of the range ”to die for“ food reward. Mad as it sounds this has worked for me. Also add in a visual cue for the quiet command. (I use the obvious index finger in front of my mouth). Dobies are
incredibly adept at understanding visual cues & once understood these are enough without words.
However, it sounds like to me like your pup has just got into the habit of barking to get his own way & you need to break this habit. He may grow out of it but equally he may not. I think e collars may in fact be banned in the U.K. but you can achieve the same result as Rits describes above with e collar by using water from a plant spray bottle or squeeze bottle. (Maybe fround upon by U.K. lap dog owners but definitely not illegal) When he’s barking at you someone else whose not involved needs to squirt water at him (top of head preferably) as you give a loud “no” command. A little after, praise “good, quiet” & reward. It’s worked to stop unwanted habit barking with all of my Dobes.

E collars are not banned in the UK just frowned upon but if used judiciously can work wonders. However I wouldn’t jump into that right away, I’d try a prong collar which unlike a regular one gets their attention right away and you don’t have your armed pulled off in the meantime. My boy responds way better to my commands when he knows he has his on and a verbal command followed by a timely tug might be enough to get a better response from him. Try one on yourself (I’d advise your leg, not neck) first to see how it feels. I had to try a choke collar on mine for training heal etc as a regular collar was not working at all but I dismissed the choke after one session as it did choke him at the front of the neck where his vulnerable trachea is and I figured it was too cruel. As soon as I tried the prong his reaction was immediate and he did not pull like he did on the choke. Also it doesn’t seem to bother him as the pinch effect is more evenly balanced all around his neck so not bruising his trachea although I keep him on harness when out hiking and the prong collar only control in town walk’s or training. You also have to use it correctly ie give a verbal correction just before the collar correction and pull up on it quickly and decisively then release not a backwards pull or prolonged tug. People think they are cruel but I disagree I want what is best for my boy to teach him and keep him safe and I would not do anything that hurt him.