Well it happened, so what next?

[Curing]

So I work for my dad and bring Drac to work everyday, he does really great and just stays in my office. We've had people around and he's never reactive.

Today I brought him in and like every day was sitting in my office working when my dad asked me to bring the dog out to show a customer of his. I said okay, as we've never had issues with him meeting people and brought Drac out.
Drac sniffed the guys hand and let him pet him, and then I had him sit so I could wait for them to go into my dads office and take him outside.
He wasn't even close to the guy, but as the guy walked by Drac jumped up and bit him out of seemingly** nowhere.
He didn't growl, didn't act stressed, didn't go into avoidance when he initially met him. It was just suddenly him jumping up and grabbing him. He made the man bleed. I know their had to be a reason, I just can't wrap my mind around WHY.
The only thing I can think of is the man had a package in his arms. but It just doesn't make sense.

I feel so lost and so responsible because I have no clue what happened. I'm always very cautious with these situations, always watching my dogs to ensure they're not stressed or irritated. I honestly rarely allow people to just pet my dogs either to limit stress, Plus, I've told them time and time again, he's a working dog and even though he's sweet, he was bred for a purpose and we have to be careful.
But since it had never been a problem prior I allowed It this time. Thats also why I put him in a sit as the guy walked by, I like having control at all times, but really feel like I failed here.

I don't know what happen or what I did, but I do know that I'm going to be blamed and they're most likely going to blame the fact that I have him training for IGP. I just feel like this was probably one of the worst things to happen at this time.
I don't know what to do.


And as for the guy, he's fine. It wasn't a severe bite, but it was a puncture that bled. But a bite is a bite, and I know everyone is going to be concerned and wary now.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

My first Dobe was not socialized well. At the time, I wanted things that way. His default mode pretty much was to bite. If I took control of the situation, however, he was reliable and would accept the person. I see you say you haven't had many people meet him. Could this have contributed? I'm NOT judging, BTW.

I have seen it where putting a dog in a sit (perhaps especially in a down) makes them feel more vulnerable – akin to how being leashed can make them feel. My second Dobe exhibited this.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Is it possible the package resembled a bite sleeve?
Perhaps the whole situation was a bit confusing to him.

 

[Curing]

My first Dobe was not socialized well. At the time, I wanted things that way. His default mode pretty much was to bite. If I took control of the situation, however, he was reliable and would accept the person. I see you say you haven't had many people meet him. Could this have contributed? I'm NOT judging, BTW.

I have seen it where putting a dog in a sit (perhaps especially in a down) makes them feel more vulnerable – akin to how being leashed can make them feel. My second Dobe exhibited this.

Oh that was my bad, I meant like, when we're out I don't generally allow people to just come up and pet either of my dogs. Its mostly because one of the dogs isn't friendly and I'd prefer them just ignoring people and focusing on me. But him independently has actually met a lot of people and I take him out pretty regularly for socialization due to the fact that his environmental adaptability was pretty bad when I got him and I allow him to greet people when we're in low stress environments.

I agree with the sitting 100%, and I've thought over that as well being the reason he did it. This is something he's used to, but not something I would brush off as not being the reason.

 

[Curing]

Is it possible the package resembled a bite sleeve?
Perhaps the whole situation was a bit confusing to him.

That came across my mind for sure, the only reason it didn't really make sense is because he wasn't aroused or put into any drive. It was just a very calm and quiet situation, and even during our training sessions he has to be aroused into a drive to really get going.

That being said, the package is the only thing that makes any amount of sense as to why he would, ya know?

 

[My2Girls]

Why did the customer want to see Drac? Does this person have dogs? I’ve had a dog react to me and we thought it was because of the scent of my dogs on me. I don’t know if there’s truth to a dog reacting to a scent on a person but maybe?? Do you do any kind of nose work that might have triggered him to bite?

 

[Curing]

Why did the customer want to see Drac? Does this person have dogs? I’ve had a dog react to me and we thought it was because of the scent of my dogs on me. I don’t know if there’s truth to a dog reacting to a scent on a person but maybe?? Do you do any kind of nose work that might have triggered him to bite?

I think when people hear we have a doberman, they generally want to see him.
He said he had a German shepherd, but didn't really hear much about their dog.
And the only kind of nose work we do is tracking articles, so I don't think it would've been that.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Ugh, I am SO SORRY this happened.

Is there anyway Drac could've thought the guy was reach for you in some way? If he really gave no warning signs, then the guy must've done something Drac perceived as dangerous.

Not to scare you but I hope this guy doesn't change his chill tune, after the fact. Trust me, it can go from "we're all good" to way out of control super fast.

It's amazing that Drac has an opportunity to go to work with you but to protect him, I'd not take him anymore unless he's kept in our office or something. It's so heartbreaking, I know

 

[Curing]

Ugh, I am SO SORRY this happened.

Is there anyway Drac could've thought the guy was reach for you in some way? If he really gave no warning signs, then the guy must've done something Drac perceived as dangerous.

Its really unclear why he did it, My only guess would be the box in his arms.

Not to scare you but I hope this guy doesn't change his chill tune, after the fact. Trust me, it can go from "we're all good" to way out of control super fast.

I think its always a possibility, but he was understanding and was here for over an hour talking. So I don't think he would.

It's amazing that Drac has an opportunity to go to work with you but to protect him, I'd not take him anymore unless he's kept in our office or something. It's so heartbreaking, I know

As far as bringing him with me, he comes because we have a lot of very expensive stock and I'm often here alone. So he serves a purpose other then just coming because I want him to. We actually don't generally get customers in because we're not an open business, these are just our offices and occasionally some people will stop by.

He also doesn't leave my office unless I'm handling him, so he's not free roaming.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Not to scare you, as the following is probably not the case with your boy, but: When you say he had accepted the man for an hour then went after him, it reminded me of my previous Dobe, who we are pretty sure had a "screw loose." Even the breeder acknowledged that possibility. He "attacked" my wife on three separate occasions, as well as other people. We had to keep him separated from our child at all times.

 

[Curing]

Not to scare you, as the following is probably not the case with your boy, but: When you say he had accepted the man for an hour then went after him, it reminded me of my previous Dobe, who we are pretty sure had a "screw loose." Even the breeder acknowledged that possibility. He "attacked" my wife on three separate occasions, as well as other people. We had to keep him separated from our child at all times.

My bad again, I'm still kind of in my head so probably not explaining the best.

The man stayed for over an our and talked with my father (they were making a deal), but Drac only had a short interaction with him. He met him, sniffed him, and let him pet him. And then after that as he moved to go into the other office to talk, that's when Drac got him. All together it was less then a 5 minute interaction.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if it WAS because I had him sit. May he felt like I was keeping him from something that was bad.

 

[DreamValley]

What level of IGP training are you at? Does Drac have BH? It definitely something triggered his reaction. Is he a reactive dog? Does he have good nerves or he is a bit fearful and defensive?
Sorry it happened. I know how frustrating it is. Will that guy report a bite?

 

[Oh Little Oji]

My bad again, I'm still kind of in my head so probably not explaining the best.

The man stayed for over an our and talked with my father (they were making a deal), but Drac only had a short interaction with him. He met him, sniffed him, and let him pet him. And then after that as he moved to go into the other office to talk, that's when Drac got him. All together it was less then a 5 minute interaction.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if it WAS because I had him sit. May he felt like I was keeping him from something that was bad.

Oh sorry. That was my bad for not re-reading your OP.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if it WAS because I had him sit. May he felt like I was keeping him from something that was bad.

I would agree and also since it is just offices without a flow of customers coming and going, he may have perceived that as a threat when the man followed your father.

His experience is with very few people entering your offices, his mind may have gone to a protection mode. Obviously we are missing something that Drac saw. Just a small nuance of body language, even the hormones the guy was emitting such as fear (even if he did not act fearful). These dobes have incredible noses and can smell the chemicals released in our bodies including hormones such as testosterone which can amp them up. With women the hormones released are generally like oxytocin which tends to calm them. A combination of these things could easily have provoked his reaction.

if I am remembering correctly Drac was pretty much shut down when you got him, and btw you have done wonders for him, perhaps it was something he associated with this man and his past experiences.

Understanding dog behavior is a science in itself and I bet if you recall everything that transpired from your dad asking you to bring Drac out all the way up to the bite, you might recall just the tiniest thing that may have set him off.

This situation is always my fear with people wanting to pet my twins. I don’t know the people so I am sure my twins pick up on that and may misread my hesitation as a negative and respond in kind.
Also I truly hope this guy is genuine in saying it’s no big deal. Being sued is a true nightmare when it involves your dogs and the fear of a bite history being placed on them. I feel bad for Drac over this as it has to be confusing for him.

 

[Curing]

What level of IGP training are you at? Does Drac have BH? It definitely something triggered his reaction. Is he a reactive dog? Does he have good nerves or he is a bit fearful and defensive?

We’re planning on going for his BH in December, I got him last year, but he was in training before I had him and I restarted him.
We just started back up in bitework after focusing on his obedience and building back up hair confidence.

He’s actually the least reactive dog I know. Everyone’s usually surprised with how neutral he is. Doesn’t bark at people or sounds, doesn’t go after livestock, wildlife, cats, or other dogs. He usually is just very quiet and watches.

I would honestly consider him to have pretty good nerve. His environmental adaptability wasnt the best when I first got him, and he’d be a bit unsure in new locations when I first was working with him, but now he adapts pretty quickly and settles in easily.
But as far as with people, he’s mostly just aloof. Doesn’t bark or growl or make a scene. And I’ve never seen him react aggressively out of fear.

** adding to this: I think that’s why the whole thing was such a huge shock and surprise for us.
From all the time I’ve had him, he’s never bitten or reactive without reason. He’s just an extremely chill dog.

 

[Curing]

I would agree and also since it is just offices without a flow of customers coming and going, he may have perceived that as a threat when the man followed your father.

His experience is with very few people entering your offices, his mind may have gone to a protection mode. Obviously we are missing something that Drac saw. Just a small nuance of body language, even the hormones the guy was emitting such as fear (even if he did not act fearful). These dobes have incredible noses and can smell the chemicals released in our bodies including hormones such as testosterone which can amp them up. With women the hormones released are generally like oxytocin which tends to calm them. A combination of these things could easily have provoked his reaction.

if I am remembering correctly Drac was pretty much shut down when you got him, and btw you have done wonders for him, perhaps it was something he associated with this man and his past experiences.

Understanding dog behavior is a science in itself and I bet if you recall everything that transpired from your dad asking you to bring Drac out all the way up to the bite, you might recall just the tiniest thing that may have set him off.

This situation is always my fear with people wanting to pet my twins. I don’t know the people so I am sure my twins pick up on that and may misread my hesitation as a negative and respond in kind.
Also I truly hope this guy is genuine in saying it’s no big deal. Being sued is a true nightmare when it involves your dogs and the fear of a bite history being placed on them. I feel bad for Drac over this as it has to be confusing for him.

I agree with you completely, and I think that’s why I’m racking my brain so heavily trying to figure out what I’ve missed.

sucks because I know I’ll be thinking and stressing over it all weekend.
I don’t blamed Drac and all and I wish he could tell me why so I could better understand!

Just makes me so anxious knowing I missed something and allowed this to happen, but I also have to remind myself that these are living creatures and we can’t prevent everything.

I do appreciate everyone’s support and thoughts on the whole thing though, it’s really helping me get through it

 

[DreamValley]

Interesting... as usual reactive or a bit fearful dogs bite like that. He must have been uncomfortable in that environment. I don't think it has anything to do with him sitting. Do you think he wanted to protect his area when that guy moved to the office? Dogs see a difference between a box and a sleeve. He definitely went after the guy.
The best option for you not to show your dog to customers. You may get into troubles. He is trained to bite. if animal services receive a complain they will be more strict with your dog.
I don't allow people to pet my dog. I don't allow my dog to run freely with other dogs. He is a working dog. I am his universe and a training field is his favorite place.
I am sure you know about a traffic test as a part of BH. You will deal with crowds and your dog should be indifferent there and respond to your command.

 

[Curing]

Interesting... as usual reactive or a bit fearful dogs bite like that. He must have been uncomfortable in that environment. I don't think it has anything to do with him sitting. Do you think he wanted to protect his area when that guy moved to the office? Dogs see a difference between a box and a sleeve. He definitely went after the guy.
The best option for you not to show your dog to customers. You may get into troubles. He is trained to bite. if animal services receive a complain they will be more strict with your dog.
I don't allow people to pet my dog. I don't allow my dog to run freely with other dogs. He is a working dog. I am his universe and a training field is his favorite place.
I am sure you know about a traffic test as a part of BH. You will deal with crowds and your dog should be indifferent there and respond to your command.

Idk if you read any of my previous responses, so sorry if I’m being repetitive.
But he generally doesn’t greet customers (there aren’t many) as he is in my own office 98% of the time. This was one of the rare times there was one.
The office also knows that generally when he’s there, he’s working and is supposed to ignore them. This was just one of the few times I was lenient, lesson learned there.
As far as being protective, I’m honestly unsure. I would consider it a “warning” bite based on general dog behavior, but I’ve never seen him react in that way so I’m just making guess as to why.


As far as the traffic test, we practice for it often at the club. That’s why I know he’s indifferent to almost everything. We’ve had him in big crowds, had bikes pass by him, cars, other dogs, and running kids without as much as a blink. He’d just prefer to focus on me, he’s a very aloof dog. He generally will greet someone (calmly with a sniff) if he’s interested and be done and will only actually interact with people he knows. Strangers could very well not even be there to him.

 

[DreamValley]

It sounds like he is a good dog. Dogs can be unpredictable. That's why we need to take precautions especially with working dogs. Don't analyze it too much. I am sure you learned your lessons. Good luck with your BH.

 

[Ddski5]

Wow....

Ragnar is not a IGP working dog and has no experience with bitework but I have to say this is my biggest fear.

When in public, he is always on alert with ears full erect. The only signs he emits (this is not all the time either) is he goes into a hard stack or sits a little taller- mouth slightly open, mouth breathing and front paws start shifting a little. Most of the time this alerts me to another animal around or a shady person in the vicinity. And then sometimes at home he growls and goes off at the Amazon man but not the mail man?.?.?...

Don’t mean to make this about Ragnar here but just making conversation in regards to I know that in public, I never let my guard down with him....Always watching him and the environment. The constant alert status and black eyed emotionless glare always keeps me concerned.

I am very sorry this has happened. I have watched your videos and followed your journey and know both of you have worked extremely hard. I admire your perseverance and dedication you have put in with Drac, this definitely has to have you perplexed.

Your public trust with him will be in question and in the back of your mind it may make you anxious. You know this, but don’t forget that will filter down the leash to Drac.