Not eager to please...

[Ddski5]

Just read this in another thread.....

DN2017 asked:
"Do you feel like the Doberman is more eager to please? My Amstaff was a pain in the butt I'd say.. totally not eager to please. She wasnt food driven either and very selfrighteous. She was just too busy with her world and didnt seem to hear me anymore."

What to do when a Doberman is not eager to please and is lost in their world most of the time?? Is not interested in engaging with you?

How do you get them re-interested in you? Jumping up and down acting silly and crazy gets old.

I am thinking to get them out to new places to where they may revert to you and rely on you more?

Just keep on training and building the foundation and as they age and gain experience, they will come around?

 

[GOD'S GRACE]

I spend all day (75%) with Grace...always eager, or should I say over-eager...Same deal with my first Dobe too...If you think this is a Fat Lab who will wait all day for you to get home, you're mistaken. Dobe's need their people time or they introvert or get crazy.

 

[Sir.duke865]

I’d feel as if my dobie felt it was alpha if he displayed this behavior, some where the interaction has gotten blurred and feels he doesn’t have to deal with me unless he wants to. First thing I’d do is find ways to engage him and start different training games to engage his mind and NILF training would for sure be in full effect. Only ideas never been in this situation as I’m in with @GOD'S GRACE on this one, duke is 24/7 up my rear wanting to do anything,as long as he is involved he doesn’t care, let’s do it

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Mine need/require a great deal of interaction with me in the form of exercise, fun play or just riding in the truck with me. If they do not get that, they become very difficult, like a petulant child throwing temper tantrums.

You don’t ever want them to feel they have to entertain themselves because that usually leads to destructive behavior.
A bored Doberman is NOT a good thing.
They need the mental stimulation of going to different areas and seeing new things, experiencing new things.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Hormones at his age play a big role in their attitude and makes them ‘think’ they know and control all. Time to trim the flaps, engage the landing gear and bring him in. No more lofty ideas of being the pilot.

 

[Sir.duke865]

My staffies where EXACTLY like you discribed I think it’s more breed related with them but in thier standard that is actually a desired characteristic the whole head strong self sufficient I can challenge the world mentality. If they are not they are considered out of breed standard and the animal aggression is also part of thier standard as crazy as it is but it’s actually true to there original purpose.

With a Doberman Breed standards call for almost the exact opposite
They should want to be part of your life loyal so on and so forth

Disconnected dobies become leaders in there world

 

[Doberman Gang]

Everything fun goes thru me, whether we are just playing ball, training, doing bitework, Tracking. It all starts and ends with me and some form of play. Build this relationship and you won’t have to worry about the other.

 

[DN2017]

My staffies where EXACTLY like you discribed I think it’s more breed related with them but in thier standard that is actually a desired characteristic the whole head strong self sufficient I can challenge the world mentality. If they are not they are considered out of breed standard and the animal aggression is also part of thier standard as crazy as it is but it’s actually true to there original purpose.

With a Doberman Breed standards call for almost the exact opposite
They should want to be part of your life loyal so on and so forth

Disconnected dobies become leaders in there world

I love a staffy any day but them being so selfrighteous has put me off a lot. Sure I've also seen a few really eager to please ones but most of them just aren't, is my experience..

 

[GOD'S GRACE]

The best part of refocusing Grace when she takes control is when I ignore her activity....I turn my back and fold my arms and wait for her to return to her Spot...the looks she gives is... "really? you don't like that?" & then I get..."ok I'm back!"
...I never tolerate nonsense....

I agree with @Doberman Gang ... if it's not fun, why do it?

 

[Sir.duke865]

I bred them for about 13 yrs or so, just about all of them I encountered that where true staffies where this way. I’ve gone to breedings and had to break up fights it’s crazy. They are a great people breed(when raised correct) which also part of the standard for them, and are even great when they are raised around lots of other animals but once they establish a pack, just about any animal outside of it could lead to a fight or bad situation and if they become protective thier extremely dangerous. My grandmother is around my pets so I didn’t need her trying to deal with ANY of the above so once my last one passed at 12,(he was my first quality staffie and was basically the baby of the House) the only other breed I know and have owned has been dobie so I now have another super dobie named duke

 

[CRDobe]

Fenzi (FDSA) has a great on-line course called Relationship Building Through Play and also one called Get Focused. I did both with my girl when she was younger and found them very effective and fun.

 

[Ddski5]

No, never thought he was/is a fat lab and unfortunately I am unable to spend all day (75%) with him for my life does not allow.

I get up at 0500 and let him out for potty and then recrate, youngest daughter gets up at 0630 and feeds him, then recrates. Wife then lets him out from 0900-1000, recrates and then feeds him at 1200-1:00. Middle daughter is home from school around 2:45pm, takes him outside and plays with him until I get home around 4:00. Then we all load up and go to soccer fields 5:00-6:30pm or 6:30-8:00pm depending on the day.

So.... all in all, I think he gets people time and definitely is not crated all day long.

When I train with him, he trains to a point and then changes channels on me and is mentally elsewhere. He only comes back if he wants to, not because I request it.

Yes, I am most likely pushing the training session and want to train more then what he wants to do.

I guess what I am asking is---besides the regular squeaky toy or high pitched voice while running in circles, do you have any special things to make your pup eager/excited to train?

 

[Ddski5]

@Doberman Gang
I sometimes wonder if allowing my family free access to Ragnar inhibits his focus and attention on me when training. He loves the girls..... the girls play whereas dad has me focused and training.

He does recognize me, without doubt, that I am alpha of family and responds to me differently than others. He listens to me more and knows that I will not allow him to get away with stuff the others allow.

Just tend to wonder how much more solid his consistency would be if the girls did not play with and handle him as much. But then, the trade off of him accepting them in their heirarchial roles may not be as well established either?.?.?

He is still young and we will keep plugging on. He will come around, I am sure.....just looking for experiences of others.

Thanks.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

I guess what I am asking is---besides the regular squeaky toy or high pitched voice while running in circles, do you have any special things to make your pup eager/excited to train?

I can’t remember if you mentioned it before, but is he treat motivated?
I do know when they are young they have short attention spans and easily get bored with redundancy. I would train for 10-15 minutes, then free time for 15 min. then crate time for 45min to 1hr. Then a puzzle game for mental stimulation for a bit, then leash training for 10-15min. I took mine to isolated areas where they could wander around and see different things.
I hid treats around the house for them to find. The one thing I found that they went absolutely crazy over was the flirt pole. 5 minutes with that and they were exhausted. I have to keep the flirt pole hidden because they go nuts if they see it.
Most dobes I have seen become maniacs with a flirt pole. It’s a good time to teach them the release command since they will become fixated on it and it really tries them out.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Just tend to wonder how much more solid his consistency would be if the girls did not play with and handle him as much. But then, the trade off of him accepting them in their heirarchial roles may not be as well established either?.?.?

I would have the girls work on his training too. There is play time and training time and all should be involved with both.
I am not Doberman Gang but he will correct me if I am wrong in this line of thinking.

 

[Ddski5]

@CRDobe
Thanks for that--will look that up.

@Tropicalbri's
That's a good outline to go by and compare to, thank you. He is somewhat treat motivated but in time, looses interest with that. I need to make a flirt pole. Can you expound on what kind of mental puzzle games you do?

My girls do train with him but not as consistent as me. For instance, I am trying to train and solidify fetch to bring squeaky toy back to me and sit and drop toy. He will fetch to a point but when he is done, he is done. I don't think he enjoys it or is eager to please when playing fetch. So, when the girls play fetch, they will sometimes allow him to run off with the toy and not bring it back to them. So then I have to deal with fixing the inconsistencies. I know, the girls should not allow this but it gets tiring having to correct everybody's behavior all the time.

Anybody else have one that when they switch off your channel, they completely switch off?? Extremely hard to get focused back on you?

 

[Tropicalbri's]

There is one that looks like a gum ball machine with a lever on the side. They have to sit and use their paw to depress the lever which in turn dispenses a treat.

The other one I use is tray type with 3 slots long by 4 slots wide. It has slideable discs that will cover the treats once you place them in. The pup has to learn to slide the disc to get the treat.

The last one is a kong treat dispenser that is weighted at the bottom, (think weebles wobble but don’t fall down)
When tilted in a side position the treat will fall out so the pup must bat it around to get a treat.
Now having given these examples I have found that the female pups will finesse the toy to receive a treat. My male........will get frustrated and try to brute force the treat out which produces nothing so he then makes the treat dispenser a chew toy and destroys it.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

@Ddski5 you feed kibble don’t you?
This probably won’t be convenient for you except in the evenings. It follows the NILIF training and clicker training.
I would feed my dogs by hand using a clicker. I would put half their food in my pocket and then go through their sit, down, stay, shake, side commands. Each time I gave a command and they did it, I immediately clicked to mark the behavior and immediately rewarded them with a couple pieces of kibble (not more than 2 pieces at a time). I did this until all the kibble in my pocket was gone and made sure I praised them as well. Then I would say ‘Jackpot’ very animated and would give them the other half of their kibble all at once. This (I think) helped them realize that “hey, I did everything right and got the jackpot.”
Timing is critical using the clicker to mark the positive behavior.
If they don’t respond to commands, then put the food and clicker away and try again later. Eventually they will come to realize if they want food they HAVE to come to you for it. You control everything in their world. Once they understand this, they will interact with you consistently. It will not hurt them to not get their food at exact times and place. Right now Ragnar knows that at a certain time he will magically be fed without having to earn it. Change their thinking and you change their behavior.
Hope this made sense.

 

[Sir.duke865]

@Doberman Gang looking for where I was off on my statement above. No hard feelings just wondering here?

 

[Doberman Gang]

Short training sessions, stop when the dog still wants to play. Then put him up in his kennel to rest and think about what you just taught him. Everyone in the family should spend time training but you all need to be on the same page so as to not confuse him. My dogs have toys that are used for training and they only get them when we train. Mine are all super ball crazy so no loose balls laying around the house. They only get their ball when we train. My dogs must sit and look at me before every training session. That is what produced the toy or food. When I get them out to train they will dance around me keeping eye contact with me until I either produce their toy or give them a command.