Doberman bodyguard?

[PandoraB]

As I sit here alone in the middle of nowhere listening to some rather alarming sounds outside (June bugs??) I am wondering just when I can expect Luna to be able to defend me?? lol She was pretty jittery earlier running to to the patio doors at the back barking and then to the front (where said strange noises are coming from). She always barks up a storm when she hears or sees someone approaching the house that she doesn't know so she's usually a pretty good alarm system. Being that we are currently in the middle of the forest though I don't know if she's barking at an intruder or a coyote or racoon running around the property (or what I hope is June bugs!).

At 9 months is she old enough yet to try to protect me if necessary? She has a beautiful temperament and has never been aggressive to anyone (people or other dogs). She does bark when strangers approach the house at home. She is definitely "my" dog bonded to me and prefers to be with me over anyone else but she loves lots of my family and friends and is notorious for trying to bestow doggie kisses on everyone.

I'm wondering about her ability to differentiate between friend and foe and what she is capable of doing in the worst case scenario at this age? Do the protection dog instincts/behaviour develop with age? Sorry for the paranoia - a long stressful exhausting week makes strange noises while alone even more alarming!

 

[RiverRat]

Protecting you is about her love for you, not about being an aggressive dog.

 

[Drogon]

Protecting you is about her love for you, not about being an aggressive dog.

It is also about being a confident dog.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

A very good question! Sorry to hear about your concerning noises. I'm sure it's nothing. If it is furry creatures, I am confident Oji would be the hero of the day. Hopefully if anyone breaks in our house, they are wearing a coonskin hat. Joking aside, he does go ballistic when a human approaches our porch and puts on a display that's very believable.

An age-old question you ask. As with all dog topics, everyone's got an opinion.

The notion that it's about their "love" for you seems a bit romantic to me. The notion that it's about a confident dog makes sense. I think it depends mostly on the particular dog's genetic makeup. I think it depends on what exposure and experiences they've had as well.

As for the age at which a Dobe is likely to start protecting its family: I would think at nine months, Luna is old enough to step up.

 

[Viemarangelrock]

I would agree, too! I'm sure if a situation arose (which i hope not!) she would instictively step up to the plate. Her mere presence would be a deterrent/warning enough. Kobi at approx 6 months would alert me to noises outside...delivery guys, cars coming into the drive and such. He pricks his ears then the low rumbling growl was a signal. I think a well socialised, confident dog would react accordingly.

 

[Ingrid H]

I wouldn't expect anything but retreat from a threat from a pet dog of any breed without training. I finally got into a situation that warranted a growl from Hans last winter and I stupidly corrected him for it. I still feel bad. It wasn't a real dangerous situation- just a strange man appearing out of nowhere in the dark. I was walking Hans as I do every morning and night on the road and some guy was walking on the wrong side of the road. The guy got within leash length of us before speaking something. Hans growled, and I pronged him. He stepped up a little bit and I squashed it

Without training, a dog's main purpose is to make us aware of threats so we can take care of it.

 

[PandoraB]

I definitely don't want an aggressive dog. I looked long and hard for a well socialized dog with a good temperament and got exactly that and couldn't be happier with that aspect.

I had wanted a Doberman for many many years but when I finally decided the time was right I spent many hours researching the breed to make sure I knew what I was getting into (as any responsible pet owner should do in my opinion). One consistent theme was the suggestion that a Doberman is one of the best dogs to identify a legitimate threat (vs. the mailman) and if necessary protect her pack and this was the whole point of the breed (per Herr Dobermann's requirements). I've heard many stories of Dobie's protecting their family members instinctively.

I actually have some legitimate concerns about a neighbour with a mental disorder that can lead to violence (with no ability to know the difference from right or wrong when he's periodically delusional). I am a single mother with a young son and I have taken comfort in Luna's presence as she has gotten bigger. I have always assumed that if this guy attacked me or anyone broke into our home she would protect me and my 7 year old.

When Luna does bark at strangers approaching the house I let her go for a little while then go over and look out and tell her it's fine. I don't correct her. In the last while little since the weather has been nicer we've been outside a few times when friends or family members she hasn't met yet have approached and she has put on a fierce display and I try to do an introduction explaining to her that the person is not a threat rather than correct her. I very much want her to be a warning system.

 

[Gelcoater]

@PandoraB
If you desire her to protect,the best advise given in this thread is to have her trained to do so.
It will not make her an aggressive dog,quite the opposite actually.Will make her an obedient dog.Thats part of the Shutz/IPO training.
I have also heard stories of this breed protecting instinctively,at least one other member here has a story to tell.When I say that I don't mean bark and scare someone away I mean engage the target.

My own female has proven to me she will.
It sort of worries me though,she has the will but has not been trained with the tools.
On one of those experiences her will was not justified physically.
She picked up a split second of unsure vibe from me about a person at our front door.Had I not had her firmly by the collar she would have,with zero doubt in my mind tackled the guy.He was a friend,but I had not seen him in a couple years,his appearance was different than I remembered him.
That moment between opening the door and thinking "who is this guy and what does he want" combined with my annoyance of someone knocking on the door at 8:30 was all it took.She was ready to engage.

Since I have daughters I am on the fence about that scenario above.
I don't need her to protect me,just alert me is all I require.
I can handle it from there.
With the girls....?It is nice to know she will act.
Then there's Rocky.
I have no idea what he would do besides bark a lot.He seems to be of the mindset people are here to see him

 

[Cariboo Country]

Kris has never growled at anyone on the street but the silent stare she gives them would put most people off. She does bark at people walking down our road which is not a usual occurrence so I let her bark for a few moments, then call her to me and she always comes running. I don't know if she would protect me but I am sure just her presence would stop most people.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I was trying to avoid raining on any parades, but I do agree that protection training and allowing the dog to pretty much prove it will protect is the sure way to go. Problem is, this costs a lot of money unless you happen to know the right people. I don't know of a way someone could do it themselves. You need other people to help you – not people the dog will be asked to accept as friends later.

I do believe the vast majority of dogs would turn tail and run in the face of a threat instead of stand and protect.

I'l go further and say that I have never believed that a dog will be able to tell the good guys from the bad. It's a nice thought though.

That said, I do feel that it is entirely possible for a Doberman with no extensive protection training to come through physically and protect in a situation. I'd just say you don't have a guarantee.

With my last two Dobes, I have been pretty certain that anyone breaking into our house would be bitten at the least.

First Dobe: Because he was a fear biter and I always felt he would protect me if I were near him – in the process of protecting himself. He was not very well socialized by me. But hey, it worked.

Second Dobe: A pretty serious, hard guy who had a good amount of fight in him and very protective/territorial with the ability to really bite. Showed no back-down ever. I couldn't see a scenario of a stranger breaking into the home without being attacked.

Current Dobe: Very protective/territoral and acts accordingly (with a display). I feel that if he actually got to the person on the other side of the glass, though, he would not go straight to biting. He would just jump on them and investigate. If the person got aggressive with him, I feel he would get aggressive back. I also feel that if a person engaged a family member physically, he would enter the fray. Now, would he wind up biting the wrong person? Maybe.

So, hopefully this will help you decide where you think Luna falls.

 

[Rits]

There was a video posted here a while back of protection breeds reacting to intruders in their house. I believe most of them failed the test. Some of them were trained and some not. From my gathering of members here and elsewhere that are experienced with working with Dobes, she is still a baby at 9 months. An alert system? Sure! Any dog that barks to strange encounters is a great deterrent and that is usually enough.

I know what you mean about wanting Luna to protect you. My girl Paige has a biiiig girl bark and she alerts us to anything unusual. I encourage her to do so and always go check to see what it is and when it is something normal, then I tell her, "thank you...that's enough." One time Maintenance came in without giving ANY notice and she stepped up to the plate with huge barks and stood 2ft from him while she stood her ground. I wasn't very happy about their lack of notice so I was glad she did that. I however don't believe she would hold her ground should someone pressure her with any sort of attack. That is another key thing members with experience have mentioned is that, a dog handling pressure well is huge. It can be stressful and dogs in IPO are given experiences that slowly builds them up to gain confidence to react to pressure well.

Otherwise, unless a dog is specifically trained for protection, which takes a lot of time and never ending training, then the only thing we can do is hope that they will protect us if the time comes. It'd be a smart idea to arm ourselves in other ways. The dog is a bonus.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

It's so interesting. I was just reading about another breed. It was stated that it will give its life in protection of its owners. I've read/heard this claim many times about various breeds. I'm sure it's been stated about Dobermans. I wonder if it's more true of some breeds, or if it is just as much hooey.

 

[GennyB]

Without training, a dog's main purpose is to make us aware of threats so we can take care of it.

I agree with this for the most part, but not completely. I would much rather a dog made me aware of a threat. I have been in particular situation where I was completely blindsided. I didn't pick up on the danger but thankfully my dogs did. I say dogs but Drake was very young, not sure what he would have done if Greta wasn't there. She was probably the true hero, although Drake did follow her lead. You can read what happened here I am SO proud of my dogs!
We had another situation where we were in the backyard and the cable guy came into the yard without me being aware. I heard Drake barking and walked around the side of the house. Drake had the guy pinned against the house, a simple bark and hold. The guy was scared to death and when he saw me, started yelling for me to call off my vicious dog. That's the reaction I like to see. I don't want the tables turned on my dogs because they were protecting me. I like that Drake just held him back without biting to let me know trouble may be coming.
Dobermans have a much softer temperament than they were originally bred to have. Add to that, most people coddle way too much and destroy any confidence the dog may have had and you get a very soft dog. They "help" the dog through something like fear of an automatic door. Instead of just saying let's go and walk through the door, people will start with "the poor baby, are you scared?" More times than not, I see people picking up the pup and going in. If they would have just walked right through, the pup would have figured out, "hey, this isn't going to kill me, I can do this" Then the seed of confidence would have been planted vs the seed of fear. I guess what I am trying to say is, you don't have to do formal IPO training to have a protective dog. A dog with the proper temperament, raised to become confident and well bonded with its pack will protect a member. I think too often when we see a dog that will not step up, it is not a fault of the dog, but more the fault of the human pack members for the most part.

 

[PandoraB]

Wow @GennyB I just read the first page of that thread - that's just amazing! That's exactly what I would hope for in the worst case scenario.

I did read further down the thread from another poster that the defence instinct doesn't kick in until about 2 years old. I can only hope that Luna's fierce bark and her intimidating appearance will scare off the bad guys until then.

 

[Gelcoater]

There was a video posted here a while back of protection breeds reacting to intruders in their house. I believe most of them failed the test. Some of them were trained and some not. From my gathering of members here and elsewhere that are experienced with working with Dobes, she is still a baby at 9 months. An alert system? Sure! Any dog that barks to strange encounters is a great deterrent and that is usually enough.

I vaguely remember that thread.
What I also remember from it was none of the dogs tested were Dobermans,and I don't believe any of the homes tested were of multiple dog homes.

I also haven't ever got a pm from the challenge I issued after a few members gave me some shit about trained vs non trained and that there are dogs not trained who would step up.
The challenge was simple.If you think it can't happen come on over to my house and just walk through my front door.
Let's see what happens.

Make no mistake I believe a trained dog will do better,but some implications from that thread was that the untrained dog would balk.

 

[Rits]

I vaguely remember that thread.
What I also remember from it was none of the dogs tested were Dobermans,and I don't believe any of the homes tested were of multiple dog homes.

I also haven't ever got a pm from the challenge I issued after a few members gave me some shit about trained vs non trained and that there are dogs not trained who would step up.
The challenge was simple.If you think it can't happen come on over to my house and just walk through my front door.
Let's see what happens.

Make no mistake I believe a trained dog will do better,but some implications from that thread was that the untrained dog would balk.

Oh, I don't doubt that there are untrained dogs who would step up. I think the point was just showing that without the right experiences and character, that SOME untrained dogs would back down under pressure, even after putting on a big show. I do think an intruder is plain stupid to break into a house with a dog going off the wall. And a multi dog household? Oh man, an idiot!! A dog would feel far more secure having a buddy to take one arm while he gets the other

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I vaguely remember that thread.
What I also remember from it was none of the dogs tested were Dobermans,and I don't believe any of the homes tested were of multiple dog homes.

I also haven't ever got a pm from the challenge I issued after a few members gave me some shit about trained vs non trained and that there are dogs not trained who would step up.
The challenge was simple.If you think it can't happen come on over to my house and just walk through my front door.
Let's see what happens.

Make no mistake I believe a trained dog will do better,but some implications from that thread was that the untrained dog would balk.

Like I wrote earlier, I've had two Dobes in a row I felt very confident would put holes in an intruder to our home. No formal training for it at all.

Gel, if I lived close to you, and I could get my hands on a bite suit I'd take you up on your challenge I'd love for someone to do that for me!

 

[Gelcoater]

Like I wrote earlier, I've had two Dobes in a row I felt very confident would put holes in an intruder to our home. No formal training for it at all.

Gel, if I lived close to you, and I could get my hands on a bite suit I'd take you up on your challenge I'd love for someone to do that for me!

Here's one of the threads,it was the second thread on the same videos/TV host.

An intruder breaks in...what would your dog do?

I wish you did live closer,would take you up on it.It would be interesting to see.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Here's one of the threads,it was the second thread on the same videos/TV host.

An intruder breaks in...what would your dog do?

I wish you did live closer,would take you up on it.It would be interesting to see.

Oh for sure, and you could be assured I would not do anything to push them beyond their breaking point. In fact I'd seek to embolden them. At the same time, I think I'd need you, and another able person there to keep me safe.

 

[Gelcoater]

Oh for sure, and you could be assured I would not do anything to push them beyond their breaking point. In fact I'd seek to embolden them. At the same time, I think I'd need you, and another able person there to keep me safe.

It would be a reciprocal exercise for sure.
Enjoy that other thread if you choose to read it.
Ice is a very knowledgable guy,but we sure didn't see eye to eye on that one.I hope he doesn't hold a grudge.