Please Help

[Ataro]

I would also second ruling out health problems first - this would be the first step I'd take, especially if the aggression issues have developed over a short period of time. I had/am still having a bout with bad or optimistic vets who took a long time to diagnose my first dog: at first they ruled it off as a simple bladder infection and subsequent incontinence, along with "stereotypical" Doberman behaviour. So be sure to demand testing of her urine, excrement, plus the full blood work and an x-ray at the very least.

My first Doberman had severe aggression issues, as a young pup she was extremely dominant and if corrected or told to sit multiple times after misbehaving, she would sometimes refuse to obey the command and a couple of times had actually growled and full on attacked me. With some strict discipline (think military style NILIF, with a very specific and heavy set of rules, zero toleration for acting up, and frequent time outs/area restriction), she greatly improved.

In the end though, as the condition of her health worsened - renal failure, she started to become aggressive once again, but this time not towards me or people she knew (although she got to the point where she had difficulty recognizing people if she wasn't around them constantly) but towards everything/everyone else. I eventually had to have her put down.

 

[Max Hawk]

I would also second ruling out health problems first - this would be the first step I'd take, especially if the aggression issues have developed over a short period of time. I had/am still having a bout with bad or optimistic vets who took a long time to diagnose my first dog: at first they ruled it off as a simple bladder infection and subsequent incontinence, along with "stereotypical" Doberman behaviour. So be sure to demand testing of her urine, excrement, plus the full blood work and an x-ray at the very least.

My first Doberman had severe aggression issues, as a young pup she was extremely dominant and if corrected or told to sit multiple times after misbehaving, she would sometimes refuse to obey the command and a couple of times had actually growled and full on attacked me. With some strict discipline (think military style NILIF, with a very specific and heavy set of rules, zero toleration for acting up, and frequent time outs/area restriction), she greatly improved.

In the end though, as the condition of her health worsened - renal failure, she started to become aggressive once again, but this time not towards me or people she knew (although she got to the point where she had difficulty recognizing people if she wasn't around them constantly) but towards everything/everyone else. I eventually had to have her put down.

I am so sorry to hear something like this. What a shame for you and the poor dog! I guess you just never know I have always had pretty good luck with my dogs except for my first doberman who died at 3 1/2 of an auto-immune disease I have a feeling that this is not a heatlth problem with Jayda but it sure doesn't hurt to rule it out

 

[Ataro]

I am so sorry to hear something like this. What a shame for you and the poor dog! I guess you just never know I have always had pretty good luck with my dogs except for my first doberman who died at 3 1/2 of an auto-immune disease I have a feeling that this is not a heatlth problem with Jayda but it sure doesn't hurt to rule it out

Well, unfortunately it seems like I wasn't the only one who had problems with my first Doberman , sorry to hear that. The other 4 dogs I had throughout my life thankfully were never seriously ill for the most part of their lives (one had to be put down at the age of 14 because of mammary gland cancer, but that was it) - and I hope it'll stay that way as well with my current Dobe, Ashra.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

The foaming at the mouth may be car sickness, when you do take her to petsmart and there is somebody else walking down the same isle it would help if you say hi to them and if she doesn't respond (negativly) reward her postivly.This is what I did with Beau and it seemed too help.

We have ruled out car sickness because because she is fine with the hour in a half car ride, our regular trips to the store etc. it is just when the there are other dogs outside of the car when she because very aggressive. I have talked to some people about it and they say this may be protective over the car but we take her out ( most of these have been when we go to someones house THAT WE KNOW the other dog will not harm her ) and/or it is on neutural ground like at the park on the road if they live in a small neighborhood etc. and once we take her out of the car she still acts the same way. I do not want to yell, pull the chocker tight etc. and make her even more anxious. So the times this has happend I made her do ob. with me and tried to take her mind out of the situation and relax her without takind HER out of the actual situation.

When she barks at the neighbors or anything really, from your description, it sounds like it's not just an alert bark either but more of a charging/get the eff off of my territory? What do you do when she does this? I agree that until you get her signed up, you should definitely keep her away from kids at all times. She has become a liability and you'll have to be on your toes to make sure she doesn't hurt someone.

Rits it is a charging, snapping, but it will be in there house after we have been there for an hour or two and all of a sudden its like jackyell and hyde. Her whole demainor will change over nothing she will be lying down in the kitchen and all of a sudden jump up and go towards one of them. Another neighbor we make sure to hug, shake hands etc. and she will be fine one day and the next be really weary. once again we try to redirect her mind ob. sit/stay or down/stay after we do some vigarious heeling and I know I have her attention. I think it would be worse if we took her OUT of the situation completly, is this the right thing to do?? The liability is what makes me so nervous, the reason being we live in a very small community and there are kids everywhere! especially with the weather getting nicer i can hear them as soon as schoool lets out till night along with people walking there dogs etc. this makes me extremely nervous we never ever leave her unsupervised but I want to be able to go out there for a walk and not have to worry about kids playing tag running to close to her and that's it if you know what I mean. Especially with how she has been acting.

AS far as the issue with the kid I have no idea.
On the neighbors,how well do you know them?If I read right she was ok with them and now she is not?My overly suspicious red flag just started waving.

We just moved to this area last June for schooling and they have been there since the start, we know them pretty well but she is never left alone with them. It is not just them she is having this problem with it is almost everyone

I never recommend removing the dog from the problem. We stay there and address it til it is solved once and for all. Schutzhund trainers deal with these guys every day. - There is just too much suddenly going on and it seems to be escalating not improving or staying confined to one area. I will say you have done a great job trying to take her places and work with her so it is not your fault it is not working. You need help at this point.

The only reason we took her outside and removed her from the baby incident is because my mom was shook up but, when the baby went down for a nap we brought Jayda back into the living room. I will try to find a schutzhund trainer, it took a while finding an ob. trainer but honestly most of the time I just do my own thing because its for begginners and they dont connect with anybody as individuals wich im not fond of at all but i figured atleast we cld go to be around dogs, people, distractions, etc.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

We took her to the vet about 2 weeks ago and all of the results came back negative, the vet said that she is just maturing. OK, well how am i supposed to fix this mr. vet?? He said just work with her and it should go smoothly. Thanks. alot.
As for the people that we got her from they said if we were ever having problems to call them, and if we wanted to get rid of her they wld take her back. WEELLL. I called her to get some answers maybe about jaydas past and tell her what Jayda has done seeing that they have a younger daughter and tell her if it did come down to it I would rather Jayda go to a doberman rescue where they could find the BEST situation for her if this does happen. And guess what. I called her yesterday left a voicemail in the morning and she stilll has not gotten back to me. Suprised?

 

[Gelcoater]

We took her to the vet about 2 weeks ago and all of the results came back negative, the vet said that she is just maturing. OK, well how am i supposed to fix this mr. vet?? He said just work with her and it should go smoothly. Thanks. alot.
As for the people that we got her from they said if we were ever having problems to call them, and if we wanted to get rid of her they wld take her back. WEELLL. I called her to get some answers maybe about jaydas past and tell her what Jayda has done seeing that they have a younger daughter and tell her if it did come down to it I would rather Jayda go to a doberman rescue where they could find the BEST situation for her if this does happen. And guess what. I called her yesterday left a voicemail in the morning and she stilll has not gotten back to me. Suprised?

Don't give up on her.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

I am not going to, I could not imagine not having her but the thing i'm struggling with is i don't want her to have to be constantly locked up or muzzled etc. when we all go out and her be miserable. I am really hoping I can find someone close that can help her

 

[DreamValley]

Yesterday I was watching Schutzhund training director working with a dog with aggressive issues. It's impressive...
Follow Suzan's advice and find a GOOD Sch trainer. Your girl needs discipline and direction.
I don't think you have a good control over her and Petsmart trainers may not help you.

How do you correct her when she shows aggression?

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

I just want to state in no way shape or form we are trying to get rid of her . She is our child that is just having some issues right now and I am coming to everyone on here and people that I have trained with in the past to find the best solution. I just could not imagine her causing harm to someone and her being deemed "vicious" or something worse. . . We are greatful for everyone helping us and looking at these situations from different angles. I am going to try to find a schuthund (sp) handler and we will continue to take her everywhere with us. Am I wrong in thinking this is an aggression issue with all test coming back fine from the vet?? We are willing to do anything for us to keep our girl.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

Yesterday I was watching Schutzhund training director working with a dog with aggressive issues. It's impressive...
Follow Suzan's advice and find a GOOD Sch trainer. Your girl needs discipline and direction.
I don't think you have a good control over her and Petsmart trainers may not help you.

How do you correct her when she shows aggression?

We will try to mentally take her out of the situation and turn her towards positive with doing some obedience rally drills and after she has settled down and been praised for doing well we will then return to the situation with her being positive but, we do not take her away from the actual situation. Is this not the right method?

 

[DreamValley]

It sounds like you reward her for being aggressive but I may be wrong...
You will need a trainer who will teach you to use a choke or prong collar for correction. Positive training may not be enough for strong-willed dogs.
Please be aware that some dogs may get more excited/aggressive with choke/prong collar corrections. You need someone experienced to help you.

Does she respect your space? Does she jump on you? Does she leave toys when you say so?
Does she sit/down without treats?

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

It sounds like you reward her for being aggressive but I may be wrong...
You will need a trainer who will teach you to use a choke or prong collar for correction. Positive training may not be enough for strong-willed dogs.
Please be aware that some dogs may get more excited/aggressive with choke/prong collar corrections. You need someone experienced to help you.

Does she respect your space? Does she jump on you? Does she leave toys when you say so?
Does she sit/down without treats?

Personally since I have been training and mentored in ob. agility. and rally, for several years I have never used a prong. With the chocker it is a quick snap, when i take her out i put the choker on her but use the buckle so she can relax and pulling the choker does not excite her even more. She does respect our space, if we say go lay down she will, she does sit, down, heel, watch me, come, quite, without the use of any treats. I would rather her listen to me and be excited to come see me or listen to me and not treats. She also does drop it, leave it etc. I really do appreciate all these asked questions so you can see how she is.

 

[Lizzard]

I am not going to, I could not imagine not having her but the thing i'm struggling with is i don't want her to have to be constantly locked up or muzzled etc. when we all go out and her be miserable. I am really hoping I can find someone close that can help her

I know you said early on in this thread, and again here, that you do not want to keep her muzzled - but given the unpredictability of her behavior, it sounds like you need to do this when she is around others. Especially because you know she is a liability. At least until you are able to help her and get the behavior under control.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

I have never used a muzzle. have you or someone you know? when would i have to use it etc? does it help the aggression or is it just a precaution? Would she feel the need to be more alert with it on and would this increase the aggression or protective behavior that she is displaying? I am sorry for all the questions but I would rather knw first hand from someone who used it then just go on sites and read "reviews" or negative comments from someone who has used it wrong.

 

[Lizzard]

I have never used a muzzle. have you or someone you know? when would i have to use it etc? does it help the aggression or is it just a precaution? Would she feel the need to be more alert with it on and would this increase the aggression or protective behavior that she is displaying? I am sorry for all the questions but I would rather knw first hand from someone who used it then just go on sites and read "reviews" or negative comments from someone who has used it wrong.

I have never used one, personally, but if Marco were doing the same things Jayda is, I would because it is my understanding that at the very least, the muzzle will not allow the dog to bite anyone.

On different occasions, I have seen dogs at a local dog park with a muzzle on. They didn't strike me as bothered by the muzzle, and they ran around the park just fine, but I really don't know.

Maybe someone with actual experience can offer you suggestions? My understanding of the muzzles I have seen is that they do not provide any type of correction or discomfort (other than being annoying to the dog, perhaps) and are primarily used so that the dog is unable to injure others - ?

 

[Lizzard]

And I would use it as a precaution... sorry I didn't say that. I am not sure how she would react, it would probably be like anything else, at first it would be difficult/annoying for her but then she'd get used to it? That is how Marco is. But maybe someone else can give you tips on introducing her to it. I would definitely look into using one as a precaution whenever she is around others until you are 100% certain the issue is under control. Just my $.02!!

 

[DreamValley]

Personally since I have been training and mentored in ob. agility. and rally, for several years I have never used a prong. With the chocker it is a quick snap, when i take her out i put the choker on her but use the buckle so she can relax and pulling the choker does not excite her even more. She does respect our space, if we say go lay down she will, she does sit, down, heel, watch me, come, quite, without the use of any treats. I would rather her listen to me and be excited to come see me or listen to me and not treats. She also does drop it, leave it etc. I really do appreciate all these asked questions so you can see how she is.

Did you try to give her commands in the places other than your home and OB class? Will she lay down on your command when she becomes aggressive? Can you control her then? A good trainer will teach you to stop aggression before it starts using "down". She should obey all the time. Also you will learn her body language and will be able to prevent her aggression. You are missing something with your girl... even you sound quite knowledgeable about dogs.

I met a muzzled Doberman in our off-leash park. The owner was using a soft muzzle. It did not bother her dog much. It took a bit training though.
Use treats for training. Put a muzzle quickly on and take off. Treat. Then repeat it again. Treat. Untill she accepts a muzzle.

 

[Judith]

Im not trying to interupt,but Im having a similair problem with Saxon.So Im hoping to hear some good advice......He has a few times went after Heike as she has been sitting on the couch and with me in the recliner next to her.......He has come up to her and seems to ask for attention she will petting him for a bit then out of know where he has sprang up on top of her visciously growling......He has not bitten her but it is about as close as it gets........Idk
My rottweiler is with a family member at the moment since he has been in some major in house fights with her and she is not a young dog........He has came up short in all the fights except the last one.....Once he took hold of her he never let go.Im glad she had a thick coat and skin......
Im gatthering abit that Ive not set myself as the alpha male in the house.Ive been told Ive allowed him to run amuck as a young pup and now am paying the price......?
Ive also been told that I spoiled him rotten and I must agree.Ive let him do his thing.But he is now pushing 80lbs zero fat and is quick as a whip.....Idk,Idk,Idk?:shakinghead:
Im thinking dominance/aggression is his label......

You have let him become the alpha by letting him do "whatever he wants whenever he wants" dogs need rules and boundaries this is how you control them , Saxon is thinking he is top dog in the house and you are below him so he will fight to keep this position whether it's your girlfriend other dog or you, this can be turned around but you must start right away , I know it will be hard as we all like to spoil them but unless they follow rules and boundaries first their is no spoiling, these dogs are fast learners ,take everything off him and start fresh follow the NILF rule, he gets nothing without doing something first .

 

[4Dobies]

I know you said you took him to the Vet. and he said everything was fine, but did he actually run any tests for something like his Thyroid? Our rescue was having some aggression issues when we first got him, we were baffled at first until someone mentioned to have his Thyroid tested. Turns out he had Thyroid problems and once we got him on medication he was fine.

 

[PerfectlyConfused]

Did you try to give her commands in the places other than your home and OB class? Will she lay down on your command when she becomes aggressive? Can you control her then? A good trainer will teach you to stop aggression before it starts using "down". She should obey all the time. Also you will learn her body language and will be able to prevent her aggression. You are missing something with your girl... even you sound quite knowledgeable about dogs.

Yes, I do give commands at petsmart, parking lots when people are around, in the middle of a regular walk etc. for my own peace of mind is why I do this. If for some reason she was somewhere and something were to happen I would want her to react as soon as she heard my voice, say a ball went across the street she started to go after it, as soon as I give a recall, down I would want her to immediatly do it versus being distracted by cars or want the ball and run after it. So I try to do this on a regular bases. Me knowing dogs is what bothers me the most about this situation, I feel like I am failing her. I can train a seeing eye dog get all these titles with multiple dogs and be PAID to handle. But, this one thing I am having a hard time controlling because I have never been in this situation.