WHY, Why, why????

[Ingrid H]

Why on earth do these BYBs automatically think imports are worthy of breeding??? There is an imported pup we were introduced to here on DCF (member has since dropped out since she couldn't hack her breeding practices being looked at by responsible breeders or educated people) that I recently found out was bred when he was about 11 months and again at 13 months. It just makes me want to scream! He's too young to have had all the health testing he should have had before being bred, and I don't believe he's ever stepped foot in a show ring or on a trial field.

I guess it's all about money. Money must be the answer to the question. I mean, they have quite a bit invested in importing the dog. And then they just breed to whatever bitches they have on their couch. You'd all be shocked if you saw what he was bred to last month. The icing on the cake is the bragging about what a fabulous European pedigree the pups have. Rant over....

One of the great things DCF does is to teach people how to distinguish between a responsible breeder and a money grubbing BYB. I hope we are all trying to pass this knowledge on to others who may be considering purchasing a puppy.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Right there with you Ingrid. The Euro Fad is a big sales gimmick used by a lot of folks who especially know nothing about standard anything. Dirve me nuts right along with you.

 

[GennyB]

I guess I really lucked out with Drake. I knew nothing about breeders because I had always rescued dogs. Then I fell into the hands of one of the most responsible breeders there is. Just another reason that Drake is named Int Ch Echorun's Luck of the Draw, CGC. I really lucked out in so many ways.
I always tell people when they inquire about him that it so important to research both the breeder and the breed before purchasing what could ultimately be a huge mistake if you do not understand what you are getting into.

 

[My Mateese]

Drives me nuts too.............Money.....THE ROOT OF ALL
EVIL

 

[DocReverto]

In defense to a lot of those who buy from a byb. I believe most of the public is unaware of back yard breeders mainly because they have not been informed. Some people just can't tell the difference because they have never even heard of back yard breeders. We need to continue to educate as much as possible, and with time people will start to get the message and stop purchasing from byb's. Especially with the Internet the way it is now. Before I looked in to getting Dobermans I never even knew there was a difference, boy was I wrong. (btw I did purchase from a reputable breeder)

 

[Dobs4ever]

Crow I hate to tell you but we have been trying to educate for years - long before now. The problem is too many people (JPQ) are not at the correct place to learn correctly. They read the internet and the vet sites that are have strong AR leanings and have been trashing good breeders for years as they disguise their fight to rid the world of puppy milles.

They tell you things that make a good breeder from the knowledge or maybe I should say lack of knowledge of how real breeders function. It is one reaaon I feel being memeber of the breed club is important and why I feel being members of forums are important. There is a lot of very bad info being spouted as we have even seen here at times.

Sometimes it is easy to get the correct answer but not complete so JQP does not get the entire picture so they can't make an informed decision. Do I believe there are good breeders out there who are not members of the breed clubs - absoulutely and they are trying to do things right and to standard. But it is harder to honestly sift through the beautiful web sites and pick out the red flags of those not so reputable. The fad now of the big selling points are CH pedigree (meaning they have never titled a dog themselves but are living off someone else's hard work) and Euro breeding which is even more dangerous IMHO>. QJP reads that and they are off and running and all excited about nothing. When they need help they have to come to fourms as their breeder can't help them or once they made the sale don't care to help them. The real work begins after the sale - helping the families to succeed and the puppy to succeed.

People buy "show puppies" from people who have never shown or produced a champion or working dogs from people who have never titled a dog - so guess what most of the time the dog does not work out.

 

[MyBuddy]

In defense to a lot of those who buy from a byb. I believe most of the public is unaware of back yard breeders mainly because they have not been informed. Some people just can't tell the difference because they have never even heard of back yard breeders. We need to continue to educate as much as possible, and with time people will start to get the message and stop purchasing from byb's. Especially with the Internet the way it is now. Before I looked in to getting Dobermans I never even knew there was a difference, boy was I wrong. (btw I did purchase from a reputable breeder)

I think you have a valid point. Back in the day, I didn't have a clue either. When I was growing up (many moons ago) I'll bet all dogs were purchased from Jane Doe next door. It was a long time coming for me to realize the difference or to even really understand puppy mills for crying out loud. When I got my first Doberman, it was my sister who told me, "You buy a Doberman from a store or anybody else (before she could find me a reputable breeder) I'll disown you." Yes, Mam! That's when the lightbulb started to brighten. I think education is the key.....and repeating it over and over and over........

 

[MyBuddy]

Crow I hate to tell you but we have been trying to educate for years - long before now. The problem is too many people (JPQ) are not at the correct place to learn correctly. They read the internet and the vet sites that are have strong AR leanings and have been trashing good breeders for years as they disguise their fight to rid the world of puppy milles.

Yup, it's been going on for a very long time, even before the internet. Like you say, people are not in the correct place to learn correctly..........it's not just the wrong information off the internet. It's just something that has been 'the norm' for so many years that you don't even know better.

 

[DocReverto]

One more thing. Unfortunately some people are to selfish to care and they purchase cheap just to get the dog. The other argument I see is the whole "I was trying to get the puppy out of that bad situation". We all know that is the horrible part of the issues with byb's. In a perfect world no one would buy the puppies, and they would all foster out. We all know it does not work that way. I normally hear that excuse after someone has realized they purchased from a byb.

 

[Rits]

Either they are uninformed or they just don't care about the long term health of their puppy or the breed!

 

[Dobs4ever]

I will share again to excellent references - DPCA.org check out their articles and information on the history of this breed in America.

adpef.org American Doberman Pinscher Educational foundation. - Must of the precious history of the Doberman here in America is being preserved there for us to study and learn.

Yes it is time consuming but even a few articles can be very eye opening.

To add - I posted the entire American Doberman Standard here in a thread for anyone interested. I think it was the thread about Amer vs Eruo but I will have to go search. BRB

 

[Archer]

Thank you to all of you for being such great advocates of our breed!! I have always felt that education (on breeders and breed behaviors)with ANY breed is important, especially prior to making the decision on bringing one into your family. I wish there was an easier way to educate others.... I should have added bullheadedness and stubborn people to my list of pet peeves I guess we are going to have to continue to be a squeeky wheel

 

[DocReverto]

People are starting to be very open to almost everything. It's almost like another hippy era, I just hope that people get wind of this information and use it to their advantage. When I see the quality of a doberman from a reputable breeder over a byb......words can not describe it. Just going to confirmation shows really proves that point. Excellently bred pure breeds stand out of the crowd. When people see my pups in public it is not "your puppies are so cute", it's "your puppies are gorgeous". Im sure others have run in to this as well.

Ugly or beautiful though all dogs deserve a good home, we just need to make sure it is through reputable or rescue means.

 

[DocReverto]

Just to clarify I am not saying byb Dobermans are ugly...

 

[Ataro]

You know, one point that isn't touched on often is the fact that it is just TOO EASY to breed dogs and sell them. If there were stricter rules, like for example minimal health and temperament testing of the parents for a litter to be registered, it would already cut a lot of these BYBs using pedigree dogs out of the picture.

Of course then there's still the fact that many people don't know what a pedigree is, and I think that in itself should be promoted. A lot of people I've talked to think a pedigree dog is just for people who want to show, and they don't see the point in getting one. Well, the way things are going with a pedigree meaning just that and nothing else (in some cases with bad breeders), I don't see educating the public to be an easy task. And there's a lot to be said about the difficulty of finding a good breeder. Yes, they exist, but they are far outnumbered by bad breeders and BYBs that there just aren't enough to supply the demand, sadly. Furthermore, some countries have more responsible breeders than others, I went through a very long list of breeders while looking for a puppy in Europe and most don't even tell you what kind of health testing they do, if any. And that's not even going on about titles (lack thereof, or cheated exams etc).

 

[GennyB]

You know, one point that isn't touched on often is the fact that it is just TOO EASY to breed dogs and sell them. If there were stricter rules, like for example minimal health and temperament testing of the parents for a litter to be registered, it would already cut a lot of these BYBs using pedigree dogs out of the picture.

The idea of stricter rules/laws sounds like the answer on paper. But not so much when you try to implement it. Who is going to enforce it? Who is going to pay the people that do enforce it? What is the punishment? Do we put them in jail? Again, whose going to pay for it?
Perhaps it is time for responsible dog owners and breeders to step up. Do some "self governing" if you will. Yes, education is slow and you will always have the quick buck breeders that will never listen but I think if the "educated" stepped up they could make a difference. We all know someone that has looked for a puppy. If we put our in while they are looking, would that not make a difference? Slow but sure, just like the turtle and the hare. It won't change everyone, but if we open some eyes, that is more than is being accomplished now.

 

[Ataro]

Of course it's not going to be easy to regulate BYBs without papers, but for example if there was a stricter process when registering litters, I think it would make a difference. People think getting a dog with a pedigree is automatically a good thing, and while it is in comparison to getting one without one, it's not necessarily much better. At least it would be enforcing a bare minimum on health and temperament testing, which is what good breeders do without regulation anyway. It's also more of an incentive for people to get a pedigree dog, which is a start.

 

[Asteria]

Right there with you Ingrid. The Euro Fad is a big sales gimmick used by a lot of folks who especially know nothing about standard anything. Dirve me nuts right along with you.

A friend of mine got a Doberman a year ago. I did not know until after the fact or I would have grilled him about what to do, not to do, etc. All he could tell me was how he was a Euro import. I said whats his vWD status? Clueless. Didnt even know what that ment. Of course I then rattled off other health stuff to make him feel like an idiot (only bc he is my dear friend and I can do that). I just said ooohhh boy what an idiot you are and whapped him. And while his dog so far has had no problems and seems well tempered he has an awful dark coat. He is a black and rust but his rust markings are so dark in some pictures it makes him look black. Its odd. Ill have to get a picture from him to upload. Heard of shaken baby syndrome? I could have done some shaken adult syndrom on him. UGH!

 

[Quee]

The other argument I see is the whole "I was trying to get the puppy out of that bad situation".

If that's the argument, I would reply "go get one from a rescue shelter then". There are so many dogs - purebred and mutt - that are in shelters that need a forever home instead of encouraging the mills and BYB's to keep adding to the world's problems.

 

[Quee]

Of course it's not going to be easy to regulate BYBs without papers, but for example if there was a stricter process when registering litters, I think it would make a difference. People think getting a dog with a pedigree is automatically a good thing, and while it is in comparison to getting one without one, it's not necessarily much better. At least it would be enforcing a bare minimum on health and temperament testing, which is what good breeders do without regulation anyway. It's also more of an incentive for people to get a pedigree dog, which is a start.

It's too bad there aren't only two ways of getting a dog - from reputable, sanctioned, maybe even licensed breeders if you're going to show dogs or use them in breed-specific work environments (like getting a GSD for police work), or from a rescue/shelter and THATS IT! BYB's would go out of business overnight, and their dogs would end up at the rescue shelters. Of course I can dream . . . .