Why do breeders do this? (cropping)

FutureDobeOwner

New Member
Hello, I am on my search to find a doberman puppy and have been thinking about getting one with floppy ears. Posting the ears sounds like a huge commitment, and my dog is going to be a service dog so I'd prefer she has a more presentable look, though cropped ears look absolutely stunning. Besides, it seems very expensive.
The problem is a lot of amazing breeders near me don't send uncropped puppies home under any circumstances. Why is this? I understand that it's breed standard but it doesn't seem necessary if you know what I mean. It's not like I would crop their ears at home or anything for god's sake! I know people have claimed it helps with infections or whatever, but I have a springer, that gets infections practically every month in the summer, and his ears aren't cropped. I could 100% handle an ear infection or two.
If a breeder offers to not crop a puppy's ears (to let them flop), does that make them a backyard breeder? I want a well bred dobe but I'm not sure I want the annoying posting to come with it. I will never go with a breeder that isn't reputable simply because of this but it'd be ideal for a breeder to let me take a floppy doberman home. Does anyone know of any REPUTABLE breeders in the New England area that let you take home a floppy puppy? Why do breeders do this?
 

Oh Little Oji

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They do it because they believe in cropping – for the real benefits it provides, and/or for the unmatched regal, watchful, elegant beautiful appearance, and/or to honor, and participate in, and continue the rich tradition. Doberman was meant to be a breed with standing ears, but it is only the misguided notions of animal rights that has stripped the right to crop away from owners of this breed in Europe.

No, it doesn't literally make a Dobe breeder a backyard breeder if they don't crop; but that has been a long-held marker of less professional breeders or breeders who tend to be otherwise suspect – that they don't crop, and instead leave it up to the buyer.

You're in luck, however, as more and more Dobe breeders are moving away from cropping. In fact, Oji's breeder has full-tilt gone over to the non-crop, non-dock side. Their explanation to me was they stopped cropping due to the possibility of one of their Dobes competing in IGP (formerly Schutzhund or IPO) overseas, where dogs are not allowed to compete if they are cropped. In their case, this may have been the catalyst, but it really seems to have taken hold of them, as they and their friends online make all sorts of noises of adoration about how neat and cute the long floppy ears and the tails are.

May I ask (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, as it's obviously a personal decision) why you want a Doberman? There are plenty of breeds with floppy ears who share many of the characteristics of the Doberman.
 

FutureDobeOwner

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May I ask (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, as it's obviously a personal decision) why you want a Doberman? There are plenty of breeds with floppy ears who share many of the characteristics of the Doberman.
Well, there are a lot of reasons I want a dobe. I have been looking for the right breed for years and dobes seem perfect for my lifestyle. The energy level, and most importantly, the working drive. I need a dog that WANTS to work, and I am NOT a lab/golden kind of person. I also have sensory issues and the dobe coat is an important factor because a lot of dog coats stress me out, but a dobe's fur feels very comforting. I need an energetic dog since my current dog is way too lazy for my taste. I am a person that wants to go hike for miles and miles and a dobe seems to have the perfect energy level for my needs. I have experience with dobes (not owning them) and I love their stubborn and mischievous personalities, not to mention their regal appearance.
 

FutureDobeOwner

New Member
They do it because they believe in cropping – for the real benefits it provides, and/or for the unmatched regal, watchful, elegant beautiful appearance, and/or to honor, and participate in, and continue the rich tradition. Doberman was meant to be a breed with standing ears, but it is only the misguided notions of animal rights that has stripped the right to crop away from owners of this breed in Europe.

No, it doesn't literally make a Dobe breeder a backyard breeder if they don't crop; but that has been a long-held marker of less professional breeders or breeders who tend to be otherwise suspect – that they don't crop, and instead leave it up to the buyer.

You're in luck, however, as more and more Dobe breeders are moving away from cropping. In fact, Oji's breeder has full-tilt gone over to the non-crop, non-dock side. Their explanation to me was they stopped cropping due to the possibility of one of their Dobes competing in IGP (formerly Schutzhund or IPO) overseas, where dogs are not allowed to compete if they are cropped. In their case, this may have been the catalyst, but it really seems to have taken hold of them, as they and their friends online make all sorts of noises of adoration about how neat and cute the long floppy ears and the tails are.

May I ask (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, as it's obviously a personal decision) why you want a Doberman? There are plenty of breeds with floppy ears who share many of the characteristics of the Doberman.
Is Oji an American dobe? He's gorgeous!
 

Oh Little Oji

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Is Oji an American dobe? He's gorgeous!
Oh, thanks, but that's not Oji in my avatar. It's a photo from an old Doberman book. :D

Oji is actually a full-Euro working-line Dobe. There are some pictures of him here and there around this place.
 

FutureDobeOwner

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Oh, thanks, but that's not Oji in my avatar. It's a photo from an old Doberman book. :D

Oji is actually a full-Euro working-line Dobe. There are some pictures of him here and there around this place.
Oh, my bad. :facepalm:
I have seen a ton of Euros with floppy ears, now that I think about it. Not as many Americans though, lucky me. I don't think I could handle a Euro, they sound almost scary haha. Much more high energy than American dobes, apparently!
 

Panama

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Unfortunately, I don't know of any ethical/responsible breeder(s) that would place a pup uncropped.
Breed standard aside:
1) Leaving the cropping process up to new owner could be a disaster and not fair to the pup. New owners not familiar with the cropping or where to have the crop done, could end up with an awful chop job instead of an elegant crop. So breeders crop the entire litter and wait until they are completely healed before going to new homes. So posting is the only aftercare.
2) If by change the pup doesn't work out in the new home and the pup/dog is returned to the breeder, it's much easier to rehome a cropped pup/dog.
 

Oh Little Oji

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Oh, my bad. :facepalm:
I have seen a ton of Euros with floppy ears, now that I think about it. Not as many Americans though, lucky me. I don't think I could handle a Euro, they sound almost scary haha. Much more high energy than American dobes, apparently!
Oh, no problem at all. I'll see if I can find a pic of Oji here, for what it's worth.

Well, that is the general overarching thought is that Euros are higher energy, and the thought is overall true I'd say; however there are many examples that run counter to it. I often wonder if a large, heavy show Euro would be not that high energy. Large, heavy dogs are usually lower energy. What's more, some of those big Euro Dobes are actually larger than the breed should be, or at least are overdone, so to speak. The chests stick out way too far in front, and the heads and snouts are too heavy, with too much flew and jowl. It's a look they go for in the Euros, and I won't lie, some of it looks good to me; but beyond a certain point it just strays too far from what a Dobe should look like and be. Example: If a Dobe's head is looking Great Dane-like it's quite overdone. Anyway, it's all said to circle back to my point that I wonder if those very large Euro show Dobes might actually be relatively low on energy – at least once they get past the Doberteens.

Below is a how a fairly typical working-line Dobe looks.

GBneckStretched.jpg
 

FutureDobeOwner

New Member
Oh, no problem at all. I'll see if I can find a pic of Oji here, for what it's worth.

Well, that is the general overarching thought is that Euros are higher energy, and the thought is overall true I'd say; however there are many examples that run counter to it. I often wonder if a large, heavy show Euro would be not that high energy. Large, heavy dogs are usually lower energy. What's more, some of those big Euro Dobes are actually larger than the breed should be, or at least are overdone, so to speak. The chests stick out way too far in front, and the heads and snouts are too heavy, with too much flew and jowl. It's a look they go for in the Euros, and I won't lie, some of it looks good to me; but beyond a certain point it just strays too far from what a Dobe should look like and be. Example: If a Dobe's head is looking Great Dane-like it's quite overdone. Anyway, it's all said to circle back to my point that I wonder if those very large Euro show Dobes might actually be relatively low on energy – at least once they get past the Doberteens.

Below is a how a fairly typical working-line Dobe looks.

View attachment 125903
And is that picture an American dobe? Or are all working line dobes Euros?

Very good point on the lower energy topic. I love big dogs, but most of them are way too lazy for me. I could never own a great dane... I would run them until they dropped:sonic:
 

Rits

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I believe if I remember correctly that Lyndobe does allow the choice of crop and she is reputable. She is in Michigan though and she does not ship puppies.

Otherwise yes, it is incredibly rare for the reasons @Panama listed. Posting isn't really all that bad and they develop a really great bond with you because of the special time spent with the scheduled changing of the posts.
 

Oh Little Oji

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And is that picture an American dobe? Or are all working line dobes Euros?

Very good point on the lower energy topic. I love big dogs, but most of them are way too lazy for me. I could never own a great dane... I would run them until they dropped:sonic:
That is a picture of my Oji.

No, not all working line Dobes are Euros. Working and Euro do go hand-in-hand often, but not always. It seems more common to see working titles in the pedigrees of Euros. The sport of Schutzhund was initially a suitability test for German Shepherds – to determine if a dog was worthy of being bred. That was a Europe thing.

I think I understand why you ask if Oji is an American Dobe. He is not large and impressive looking like most people think of when they think about a Euro Dobe. Dobes from breeders whose sole, or main, focus is producing dogs that perform as highly as possible on the sport field, well those Dobes are built for speed and agility in terms of what you can tell from outward appearance. Hence Oji's build. Put him next to a Euro show Dobe and Oji looks like the skinny little kid who gets "sand kicked in his face" at the beach; however the opposite is true. I would never intentionally fight him with other dogs, but it has happened and he dominates and makes larger dogs look pitiful as they submit – even two opponents at a time. Oji has never received a scratch on an ear, which is more than I can say for the others dogs. (See what I did there?)
 

Doberman Gang

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Von schwarz dobermans in Pennsylvania doesn't make you crop.
Probably not what you would want for a calm service dog 😂😂 Katie breeds pretty strong working lines.
Hello, I am on my search to find a doberman puppy and have been thinking about getting one with floppy ears. Posting the ears sounds like a huge commitment, and my dog is going to be a service dog so I'd prefer she has a more presentable look, though cropped ears look absolutely stunning. Besides, it seems very expensive.
The problem is a lot of amazing breeders near me don't send uncropped puppies home under any circumstances. Why is this? I understand that it's breed standard but it doesn't seem necessary if you know what I mean. It's not like I would crop their ears at home or anything for god's sake! I know people have claimed it helps with infections or whatever, but I have a springer, that gets infections practically every month in the summer, and his ears aren't cropped. I could 100% handle an ear infection or two.
If a breeder offers to not crop a puppy's ears (to let them flop), does that make them a backyard breeder? I want a well bred dobe but I'm not sure I want the annoying posting to come with it. I will never go with a breeder that isn't reputable simply because of this but it'd be ideal for a breeder to let me take a floppy doberman home. Does anyone know of any REPUTABLE breeders in the New England area that let you take home a floppy puppy? Why do breeders do this?
If you are looking at showline breeders they crop all of the dogs because they are looking for the best show prospects. Sometimes they might not be sure which will be best suited until 10-12 weeks. Crops are typically fine around 7-8 weeks.
How do you determine that your puppy will be a service dog? Most service dogs are bred for that work and not all will make the cut from that either. If you need a service dog you should probably be working with a service dog training facility to meet your needs. It won’t be a breed specific thing.
 

Aimee72

Jr Member
I actually have one of Katie's dobermans. He is pretty mellow. His father was Ferro and mother was Violetta. His mother was in service work also if I recall correctly. She was also a showline. His father was trained for service work for Katie when she had some health issues.
 

LifeofRubie

Active Member
I have a Lab and a Doberman.

I can tell you the Lab aims to please me 1000%, the Dobe will do what I ask but without gusto and zeal.

Maybe look at Weimaraner or Vizslas? They are energetic with floppy ears.
 

Kswoodssue

Jr Member
Our Sasha has a docked tail and natural ears. The breeder had cropping scheduled for the week we picked her up, but she allowed us to take her uncropped. Sometimes I wish we would have cropped, but I chose not to and we move on.
 

FutureDobeOwner

New Member
That is a picture of my Oji.

No, not all working line Dobes are Euros. Working and Euro do go hand-in-hand often, but not always. It seems more common to see working titles in the pedigrees of Euros. The sport of Schutzhund was initially a suitability test for German Shepherds – to determine if a dog was worthy of being bred. That was a Europe thing.

I think I understand why you ask if Oji is an American Dobe. He is not large and impressive looking like most people think of when they think about a Euro Dobe. Dobes from breeders whose sole, or main, focus is producing dogs that perform as highly as possible on the sport field, well those Dobes are built for speed and agility in terms of what you can tell from outward appearance. Hence Oji's build. Put him next to a Euro show Dobe and Oji looks like the skinny little kid who gets "sand kicked in his face" at the beach; however the opposite is true. I would never intentionally fight him with other dogs, but it has happened and he dominates and makes larger dogs look pitiful as they submit – even two opponents at a time. Oji has never received a scratch on an ear, which is more than I can say for the others dogs. (See what I did there?)
Ohh!!! He's so pretty! I honestly like the slimmer look better in dobes. The bulky chests kind of look like peacocks to me.
 

FutureDobeOwner

New Member
Probably not what you would want for a calm service dog 😂😂 Katie breeds pretty strong working lines.

If you are looking at showline breeders they crop all of the dogs because they are looking for the best show prospects. Sometimes they might not be sure which will be best suited until 10-12 weeks. Crops are typically fine around 7-8 weeks.
How do you determine that your puppy will be a service dog? Most service dogs are bred for that work and not all will make the cut from that either. If you need a service dog you should probably be working with a service dog training facility to meet your needs. It won’t be a breed specific thing.
That's what I was thinking:wacky: a show line would probably be my best bet.

I have never gone to a program to train a service dog puppy and I don't think I will. I plan to get a highly socialized well bred temperament tested pup, and owner train. My current boy is byb for sure and he has succeeded in service dog work so far. He's very different from a dobe, but I have the dobe experience and the service dog training experience. A lot of people owner train service dogs, it's not uncommon.
 

FutureDobeOwner

New Member
I have a Lab and a Doberman.

I can tell you the Lab aims to please me 1000%, the Dobe will do what I ask but without gusto and zeal.

Maybe look at Weimaraner or Vizslas? They are energetic with floppy ears.
I was actually looking at Weims, but I don't mind the lack of gusto and zeal, really. Labs are not my type at all haha. And if I DO have to crop, I will, I was just hoping for an alternative. It's not a requirement.
 

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