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Want to Become Breeder in Future; Where to Start?

Discussion in 'Doberman Breeders' started by Pudding, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Pudding

    Pudding Jr Member

    My cousin has bred Pits for years. She'd be my mentor. I know she's always thrilled to talk about dogs and everything that remotely includes her dogs. :)

  2. Pudding

    Pudding Jr Member

    I disagree, but don't let that put us at odds. I can see your opinion and I respect that opinion. However, I don't think it's fair to place that burden solely on a breeder's shoulders, nor would I see a breeder as any less if they couldn't take back a 10-year-old, untrained, vicious, hurt dog for example. The dog is not the be all end all - it's just a dog.
  3. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    But they should.

    This helps keep the breeder in check and not with their head in the clouds. Everyone thinks their dogs are great. An experienced third party will actually tell you the strengths and weaknesses of your dog in both temperament and structure. Thus the point in getting involved in competing in some sort of venue. Remember, health is just one part of what makes a doberman a doberman. Their looks and temperament are important too and being involved in showing or competing helps keep you on the right track. You also learn a ton, and continue to always learn, when you surround yourself with knowledgeable people.

    No offense, but I'm a little concerned with the wording here, you want to replace working with breeding? As stated, it is not something one should aspire to profit off of. Breeders often spend more than they bring in from solely breeding (ie: work outside jobs to fund). People become breeders because they love the breed. A dog isn't just a dog to them.
    • Agree Agree x 10
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  4. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    Does your cousin show or compete with her dogs in any way? What breed, exactly, does she breed?

    The idea behind getting a mentor is to be immersed in the breed you wish to breed. Dobermans have unique health issues that play a big role in quality, ethical breeding. Quality breeders tend to have years, sometimes a lifetime of experience with the breed and still learn new things all the time.
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  5. Sir.duke865

    Sir.duke865 Member

    @ pudding how can someone who knows breed standards Not know what a #8 Dobe is? That’s basic gene poll stuff which isn’t testing a dog part of being a responsible breeder wouldn’t a responsible breeder be knowledgeable to what a customer is looking for regardless it be working or show line. I agree no one breeder will know every single thing but something as simple as the color chart i would consider basic for a true top line breeder. You wouldn’t go to a math teacher for math that didn’t know how to add and subtract I’m sorry, just my view
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    Before I step out of this conversation completely....

    1) if you want to breed for income.... rats might be a good choice.
    2) if you don't think a breeder should be responsible for ANY/ALL dog(s) they produce, regardless of age or situation... see #1
    3) if you don't think extensive health testing, conformation, temperament or workability are more important then cranking out puppies... again see #1

    Breeding is not a cheap endeavor, and it's certainly not going to make you rich. If done correctly, you'll be able to buy a few bags of dog food MAYBE. It is VERY time consuming and very expensive.
    • Agree Agree x 6
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    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
  7. Sir.duke865

    Sir.duke865 Member

    No offense but it almost to me sounds as if you see money in your Dobe and just want to breed for something that looks nice has nice papers and you can sell. I’m my eyes all the wrong reasons to breed. Breeders should breed for the breed not for the all mighty buck. You want a pet buy one don’t go diluting the breed it’s been done enough already by byb’s and puppy mills. Best of luck with whatever you do.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    Not to be an ass or make light - but no, not even rats (bred them for years). Breeding rodents is an expensive PITA. There's a reason even the most bottom quality feeders are pricey.

    Basically - breeding ANY animal species PROPERLY is expensive, time consuming and mentally/emotionally draining. And that's if everything goes perfectly, which very rarely happens.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  9. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Is it sweet innocent looking "Beer Head" that you wanted to breed?

    Male - Beer Head on Swing

    Did you find out from your breeder that he isn't a Z-factor dog like you previously thought?

    Help! My Doby is a Z-factor!

    I felt sad reading this because you were very concerned about having to break the news to your family. Do you really want to do that to others?

    I remember your original avatar got a lot of attention and another member (@Oh Little Oji) figured it out:
    "Is your unique avatar pic a reference to the Biblical concept that states that one should not criticize the sliver in another's eye while ignoring the pillar in one's own?"

    Maybe, like with the bite training idea you had, you can take the advice given here and change your mind.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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    • Pure Genius! Pure Genius! x 1

    GOD'S GRACE Notable member

    @Kaiser...LOL....You are priceless...:)
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Sir.duke865

    Sir.duke865 Member

    Using a z factor dog ,and the word responsible breeder I’m sorry but :rofl: can’t be serious right now right. I wouldn’t be so throwed had this person not been educated about z factor dogs but that clearly isn’t the case here. This is a case of profit and typical backyard breeder stuff. Please go read the thread about the extinction of the breed, be a help not a hender.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Uhhh. No.
    They aren't dogs. They're Dobermans. They're like dogs but better.

    I heard breeding fish is lucrative. :)
    • Agree Agree x 7
  13. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Becoming a responsible, knowledgeable and successful breeder (not speaking financially successful but breed improvement successful) is a truly daunting task.
    The problems that can occur during pregnancy and birthing are many, even with the healthiest. You could easily lose your bitch during birthing, then what happens with the puppies that require round the clock care. Vet costs are rising every year and breeding done properly is expensive. I have found many dogs have great temperament, are smart, intelligent, learn quickly and are called amazing dogs but they most often have health deficiencies because testing wasn’t done prior to breeding. It’s great to want to reproduce that fantastic dog but there are no guarantees you will get that personality in the offspring and if you do what joy is it when their lifespan is shortened due to genetic diseases that you failed to test for.
    There is so much breed knowledge, health testing that needs to be understood before embarking on such a venture that involves responsible 24/7 care of a living, breathing animal. It is a LOT of work to properly care for any animal you bring into your home much less a litter of 10+ puppies that are solely dependent upon you for their every need. The care of the sire and bitch, proper nutrition in food and supplements for a healthy breeding pair.
    Personally I think breeders should be required to be schooled in proper breeding practices, health testing, genetic diseases, emergency care, nutrition, conformation guidelines, kennel management, training and evaluation.
    Breeding should be done to produce healthier, long lived, temperamentally stable breeds that highlights physical ability to excel in what they were originally bred for and new challenging competitions.
    In Agriculture, a degree in animal husbandry (which involves healthy and genetically sound breeding practices) is required to breed and raise livestock to be sold for food. Why not do the same for breeding dogs for companionship and competition.
    I would want to be a breeder that stood solidly behind my dogs and their health and would always take any of my dogs back if the need arose. I would never want to allow any of my pups to ever be placed in a shelter.
    I love the Doberman breed and it has been the only breed for me for the last 40+ yrs. but I would not want to be a breeder. It is an all consuming job that requires continuing education into the health and genetics of the breed.
    Learning how to screen people before placing a pup is vitally important. This breed is not for everyone.
    As @Gelcoater said, it’s not just a dog, it’s a Dobermann!
    Having a successful business is one where you never sacrifice Quality for Quantity.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  14. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    In fairness I do not think @Pudding was wanting to breed Ruger. I think it is something he wants to do in the future, hopefully with a health, temperament and conformation proven pair at the proper age for breeding. Future to me would be many years ahead after learning and studying everything I could about the breed, it’s genetic health issues, it’s temperament, working and showing requirements, proper nutrition and working with a mentor of the breed.

    We all are very passionate about this breed as is evidenced in the responses to your question.

    Hopefully they have been helpful in guiding you should you decide to breed in the future.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Pudding

    Pudding Jr Member

    You're correct, to a certain extent. I do think breeders can profit and I see no problem with that.

    I hate rats. Haha! But I appreciate the humor and frankness in your response.

    No offense taken. I'm open to hearing everyone's viewpoint even if it's opposite of mine. I'm starting to feel like it's me versus the fanatical Doberman people here. :) I can understand that it may sound as though I'm wanting to do this for the money. Forums have their limitations; I can't type/tell you everything on here.

    No. Absolutely not. Beer Head will not have offspring.

    That may indeed be the case, friend.

    You're jumping to conclusions. No, I'm not going to breed Z-factor Dobes. Relax.

    That's cool. We can see things differently. Truth be told, there are many things we see differently that would be brought to light if we sat down had a conversation. However, we both prefer Dobermans.
  16. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Stop to think that maybe there is a reason there are so many in agreement here. I hope you do take some of the info here and change your mind on your approach. I will tell you that if you plan to breed dobermans and if you distance yourself from the doberman community either online or in person, you lose a wealth of information and assistance that is doberman specific ... I wish you best of luck.

    @Archer could fill you in on the "profit" of breeding.
    • Agree Agree x 7
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    GOD'S GRACE Notable member

    Interesting topic...it brings out the passion in one...it also shed's light on the topic, which is most informative.

    I built, repaired, sold and raced cars for 40 years...you might say I was a breeder. I never once gave a second thought to people who stated they were going to join in and become a success story, knowing they won't get past the "first step"...which is to know all the rules and regulations associated with the sport and how much money everything costs...Dreams would turn to wishful thinking....

    Now here's the kicker...My passion for the sport and competition drove me on, I had much success and retired with no regrets...not always the case for those who entered the sport for money...
    There's a saying in racing: You can make a Million Dollars racing, if you start with Two Million$$.

    If racing were easy and profitable, everyone would be doing it....
    Sound familiar?

    Attached Files:

    • Agree Agree x 4
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  18. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    This is actually a really good analogy. Having grown up around the world of race cars, it's very true. Most of the people I saw enter or talk of entering the sport fizzled out quickly. The difference, however, is that unlike race cars, dogs are living, breathing beings that can't just be cast to the side to rust away.

    Another perspective - I worked with exotic animals for years. Decades, actually. Fairly often a new comer would want to enter the world of breeding with grandure dreams of wealth ... It never happened. Caring for snakes in many ways is much simpler than caring for dogs, yet very very few people ever become truly successful doing so. In fact, I can only think of one that I know personally who has been able to turn a profit,he runs a HUGE breeding facility, has numerous employees and his life literally revolves around animals. Yet, despite that, good care of the animals is lacking. It's impossible to maintain that many animals and not sacrifice on some aspects of care. Handling is the most common first to go, resulting in bitey baby snakes that are harder to sell. Coming in at a close second is genuine concern for each individual animal. It also took several decades before the breeding side of things was turning a true profit. Personally, I'd never buy from him. Everything looks ok on the surface, but I've been to the facility and seen how it really is, been friends with employees who have told me of the numerous issues in care. Is it bad enough that animals are unnecessarily dying? No. But just surviving isn't acceptable in my book and that's what the animals are doing. Surviving. Not thriving.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Funny. We have the same saying in the boat business :D
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Seriously? This made me gasp. I certainly don't agree and it scares me to think that you think this is correct? Knowledge of the breed is of the utmost! I am smart, caring, genuine and trustworthy! But I am smart enough to know I don't know enough about breeding, the genetics of it, the diseases, conformation, dog shows, etc. To produce a healthy Doberman that would promote the Doberman breed takes more than putting a male and female together by a caring human.
    • Agree Agree x 8
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